Jump to content
Model Cars Magazine Forum

Tools for lathe work?


Recommended Posts

I actually don't have a lathe but I put my drill in a vise and was playing around with some styrene and aluminum rod. I find the aluminum a bit hard to work with.  I just used an old chisel and a file to try it out.  Any suggestions?  Thanks,..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mean to be too critical, but that sounds way too scary...  A drill in a vise with a chisel - too much opportunity for an injury when things go badly.  That is some experience speaking...

It sounds like you have the basics of a wood shop lathe (minus a place to rest the tool) but are trying to do machine work which would be done on a metal lathe.  Neither the vise holding the drill or holding the tools in your hand will offer the stability that you need to accomplish acceptable results.  The chuck on metal lathe tightens down on the part the part and the cutting tool is securely fastened in the tool holder - so the machining can be controlled and nothing comes loose.  First place to look is at some you tube videos on metal turning - everything should be available from miniature machining to stuff for battleships.  Consider a community college course if that's available, or check in with a local machinist or hobbyist that can get things started.

Edited by Muncie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for your replies guys. I don't feel the drill is a big safety concern.  It's not turning at what I would call  a super high RPM range.  The chuck holds the aluminum and styrene fine I believe. But you are correct.  There is nothing to hold my tool. I was trying to see if it would work.  If so, a stand could be made. But yes, of course a lathe would be ideal. Having a quick look on Ebay I saw these two fairly inexpensive lathes.

Do you think these would be any good?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think a Sherline would be the best way to go. LOTS of tooling and accessories available from the factory plus aftermarket support as well. It's a great value for American-made machinery: I don't know of any websites dedicated to getting rid of slop in a Sherline, unlike some Asian tools.

Check Craigslist as well. You can get a free cell phone app called Craigslist Pro and have several cities programmed in to make searching faster.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want to stick with the drill, this is what I use.

http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/102101-a-handy-accessory/

The base of the cradle can be screwed to a 2 x 4 and a tailstock can be mounted on that also. 

Since the drill is a low speed (compared to a lathe) motor, I use a Dremel and various bits for shaping.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been using a Sherline for years now and it was money well spent.  Great piece of equipment to learn metal turning on.  No mater what you get, you should buy Joe Martins "Table top machining" book.  It is available through Sherline.  He was the founder of the company and really knows the subject.  It is not a cover to cover read but a great reference manual.  It talks about all the factors that go into machining from the very simple to the very complex.  It is the kind of thing you can grow with. 

Oh, one other piece of information.  The lathe is just a start financially.  You can easily spend more on tooling than you did the original lathe.  They also make a sweet little mill, which is much more versatile but you don't want to start with a mill.  You need to learn the basics of metal work with a lathe first. 

Another suggested reading is one of Gerald Wingrove's Complete Car Modeller books.  This is very complex work but it will give you inspiration to do more. 

Good luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks BigTallDad, that is what I was thinking. May do the trick for the time being. As long as the chuck it rotating straight and not loose.

 

Thanks Pete.  I don't know if I can afford to get into a lathe at the moment but I do appreciate the recommendation. I will look into the Sherline for sure. It is good to know tested and true companies before a purchase.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually don't have a lathe but I put my drill in a vise and was playing around with some styrene and aluminum rod. I find the aluminum a bit hard to work with.  I just used an old chisel and a file to try it out.  Any suggestions?  Thanks,..

Files perhaps, but any sort of true cutting tool hend-held?   A recipe for disaster, up to and including potential serious physical injuries.  About the only metal working lathes I've ever seen which were set up to use hand-held cutting tools are the old-fashioned "Jewelers' (read that watchmaker's) lathes, most of which were hand-cranked, with very small cutting tools designed for that sort of use.    

As for ordinary chisels--those are shaped at angles completely different than regular lathe tools--won't do much more than rub on the work, until they are dulled beyond use.

At any rate, should you truly attempt to make turnings as you suggest--please wear appropriate PPG (Personal Protective Gear) which needs to include proper eye protection.

Art

Link to comment
Share on other sites

for anybody considering this -

so... drill falls out of the vise - it will happen because a hand drill is not made to go in a vise - it's still running and bouncing around on the floor... had it happen... try to catch drill, hit head on vise... wasn't worth it

The rotating part catches the sharp end of the tool and pitches it at a fairly good speed - who knows where - hopefully away from the operator - and gravity still works so it's going to land someplace after it's hits a couple of things - unless it's sticking in something.

Even with a lathe, something like a hand held file can hit one of the jaws on the chuck when it's turning and throw the pointy handle end back at whoever is holding it - always use a handle on a file... it won't hurt as much.

Plenty of good resources mentioned above - Reconsider proper tools, learning how to use them, and proper safety procedures around sharp tools and moving parts

 

Edited by Muncie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use hand held tools on my Sherline all the time but they are very special tools and used in a special way.  The tools are commonly used by watch and clock makers.  They are called gravers and they are used on very small parts and with a specially made tool rest.  They take very very small cuts but with practice, leave a highly polished surface.  Here is a video of a graver being used.  Notice how little material is being removed.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVhdlfE0oDE

Lets talk for a minute about the forces on tools when cutting.  The forces on lathes is very very high at the point of a cut.  Machines for table top machining are designed for these extreme forces and need to be very robust.  Sherline uses tools made from 1/4" tool steel.  They are held in solid blocks about 1.5 " square.  When turning I try to keep the tool extended beyond the block to a minimum.  If you extend the tool too much or try to take too much of a cut or run the machine at the wrong speed, the tool starts to vibrate.  This is called chatter and leaves a very uneven surface.  If you want to understand the forces involved, imagine taking a bar of tool steel less than 1/2" long and taking a cut of .010" deep by .020" wide and bending a quarter inch bar and making it vibrate.  Those are the level of forces involved. 

 To get another idea, look at a video of wood workers turning wood.  Wood turning tools are typically 2 to 3 feet long for leverage and the steady rest is kept as close to the wood as possible.  The leverage to work has to be huge.  Typically in feet on one side of the fulcrum(steady rest) and fractions of an inch on the other side. 

Leverage and force are the typical reasons using a drill in a vice is almost unmanageable. You will also notice that the chuck in a lathe is a totally different animal from the Jacobs chuck in a drill.  A drill has very loose tolerances in both the chuck and the bearings of the drill.  Pieces in a drill do not run very true and have a wobble know as run out.  That wobble makes digging in much more likely. 

Don't get me wrong.  You can do some work with a drill and a file but to do the quality work that you want with model, you need the precision and quality of a machine made to do this type of work.  Right tool for the job!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Pete.  Sounds like you know your stuff. I tried this a while ago with another cheaper drill and the cylindrical object I was trying to make never came out round. It was always off.  So I have this drill and it seemed like it might have worked a little better but still did not seem quite true. The tolerance you mentioned is surely an issue I'm sure. I had wondered if a better quality drill might fix this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I bought a Sherline 4000 off eBay a few years ago for $400 or so, and it was money well spent. If you want accuracy, precision, and safety, buy one. Tool bits aren't that expensive, nor is material if you're working with aluminum or brass tube/rod. Check your local craigslist/Kijiji, too. You'll probably come up with things you can turn on the lathe which never came to mind previously, and the quality of the finished parts will speak for themselves.

Edited by Casey
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Pete.  Sounds like you know your stuff. I tried this a while ago with another cheaper drill and the cylindrical object I was trying to make never came out round. It was always off.  So I have this drill and it seemed like it might have worked a little better but still did not seem quite true. The tolerance you mentioned is surely an issue I'm sure. I had wondered if a better quality drill might fix this.

You are on the right track but there are the same pitfalls.  A "better" drill generally means more power and heavier duty, not closer tolerances.  You can easily spend a couple of hundred dollars on a really nice drill, but why would you?  You are half way to the cost of a used Sherline.  Over the years I have learned that it is less expensive to spend the money for they right tool first time rather than spend less money but have to buy two or three tools before you realize that they just won't do the job.   I will also add to that that I have tried to jury rig a tool to do something it was not intended to do and it works occasionally, but I would guess my success rate with that is quite low.  I generally get frustrated and go get what I need.  If you have a spouse involved in tool purchase(and I did) then I solved the issue when I explained it this way.  "I could build a house with a Swiss army knife, but why would I want to?"  Good Luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Pete.  Sounds like you know your stuff. I tried this a while ago with another cheaper drill and the cylindrical object I was trying to make never came out round. It was always off.  So I have this drill and it seemed like it might have worked a little better but still did not seem quite true. The tolerance you mentioned is surely an issue I'm sure. I had wondered if a better quality drill might fix this.

To add some to this discussion:  I bought my Sherline lathe in 1981, and have used it many times--it had to have a motor and speed control transplant about 10 years ago, and what a difference the new digital speed controller makes (the original used a speed control that worked with electronic "spikes" to get lower speeds).   As Pete and others have repeatedly said here, "cheap is as cheap does"  No matter how precise a Jacobs chuck you fit to your electric drill, without any sort of FIXED tool post, you can never get anything like precisely turned metal parts with a drill clamped into a vise (many have tried and failed--and that includes ME.  As currently upgraded, my Sherline lathe (and the Sherline mill I added in 2008) will last me the rest of my natural days, to the end of the time when I can still build model cars.

If the price of a new one seems out of your league right now, keep your eyes and ears open--many of these lathes have been bought over hte past 35-40 years, and their original owners in many cases have reached the age where they've had to give up doing this sort of fine metalworking, be it for models, or other pursuits--so they do come up at estate sales, even garage sales and flea markets.  One thing for sure though is, any part or accessory for current Sherlines will fit the originals--if any doubt, a phone call to Sherline (they are located in the LA area out in California) will get you the needed advice.

Sure the price of entry is up there--that first part turned  costs the initial price paid for the equipment (just as it does with an airbrush outfit), but with each additional part made, the price per part drops, and so on.  But the value of of the project made is way up there, in terms of the horizons opened by having that machine at your disposal for whatever and whenever!

Art

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe it's just me, but it seems the majority of the responses deal with precision milling of metal material. The OP also wants to work with styrene. My gut tells me a Sherline might be overkill for styrene.

 

.001" is .001" whether you're working in styrene or brass or aluminum or steel.

Many of my own styrene parts need to be on the order of + or - .001" accuracy. .005" is more common, and I can achieve .010" with files and sandpaper.

A tool that cannot achieve at least that kind of accuracy is useless, in my view.

The rigidity of the tool, and the runout of the bearings in the spindle are what determine this accuracy.

A flexible plastic lathe or mill with loose fits between the sliding parts (with no means for adjustment) and sloppy second-rate bearings cannot possibly deliver accuracy, even in soft material.

The cheap little plastic machine tools may have a place turning out quick-and-dirty parts that don't have to fit particularly well. Sometimes a carp tool IS better than nothing, but trying to do accurate work with one is usually an exercise in dealing with frustration.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

...You'll probably come up with things you can turn on the lathe which never came to mind previously, and the quality of the finished parts will speak for themselves.

Indeed. I made 2 identical brass gun barrels for a friend's armor projects. They were made from brass stems out of faucets. I'm a plumber and I keep any used brass parts that could be useful for machining.

This is his T34/100

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I will say this again as it bears repeating.  Buy the best tool you can.  It is better to spend more on a good tool than buying a lesser quality tool, getting frustrated and then spending the money on the tool you should have bought in the first place.  Every craftsman I know(including me) has learned this the hard way.  I have spent far too much money on ok tools and then when I wanted to better work spent the money again on a good tool.   It is actually cheaper in the long run to spend the money right the first time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...