STYRENE-SURFER Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Ace... If you like to use Lacquer you might want to try "Mr. Hobby" thinners. There are two types regular and leveling. These are not at all like the Lacquer thinners we would find at our local hardware/paint stores. They are not as HOT and Ive used them to thin "Mr. Surfacer" as a primer which did not craze at all. and that was on Evergreen styrene that seems to craze rather easily. There are no other thinners that I've found quite like it. Mr. Color thinner contains: 2-Propanal, Isobutyl alcohol, Ethanol,2-btoxy- Mr. Color leveling thinner contains: 2-Pentanone, 4-methyl-, 2-Pentanone, 4-hydroxy-4-methyl- I have Know idea what that all means. I pulled that info from the only English language label attached to one of the bottles just for the sake of science.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted September 18, 2019 Share Posted September 18, 2019 Ace would using a sealer help avoid the problems with hot paint interacting with plastic? Will the sealer cause other problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 On 9/14/2019 at 6:10 PM, CabDriver said: ... I’ve really been enjoying this thread, as I do all of yours - thanks for the detailed and interesting posts you always publish on your projects! Thanks for your interest and comments and input about the acrylic. Glad you're enjoying it. On 9/14/2019 at 8:21 PM, bobthehobbyguy said: ...Would using a sealer prevent any interactions between paint and plastic ? That's a good question. Generally, I don't use sealers, even on the real stuff. It's just one more layer of material to cause a problem, and build unwanted, detail-obscuring film thickness on a model. BUT...depending on what happens next time I shoot color on the frame, we'll see. The absolute worst lifting I ever had on a real job was a Pantera that had a tree fall on it. It had recently been painted with acrylic urethane, so I assumed the blends would be easy and straightforward. Wrong. What I didn't know was that the urethane had been shot over a non-sanding enamel primer...something you just don't do. The painter got away with it, but when I shot the blends, the surface wrinkled up like I'd hit it with stripper. It took all the profit out of the job stripping half the car and working out a way to keep the rest of it from lifting. I think I ended up having to use a water-based sealer on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 18, 2019 Author Share Posted September 18, 2019 On 9/15/2019 at 11:53 PM, STYRENE-SURFER said: Ace... If you like to use Lacquer you might want to try "Mr. Hobby" thinners... Thanks for your input too, sir. That's definitely something I'll look into. Some of my old tried-and-true methods are not working so well these days, so looking at alternatives is apparently going to be necessary if I keep doing this stuff. The paint I'm wanting to use on the M/SP chassis is the same gloss gray aircraft engine enamel I used on the one below. It's hotter than most enamels, but it worked fine on the Evergreen cage and Revell C5R frame rails shown below. It did, however, badly craze the floor from the Revell '70 Chevelle kit molded in blue metallic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyc Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 19 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Thanks for your input too, sir. That's definitely something I'll look into. Some of my old tried-and-true methods are not working so well these days, so looking at alternatives is apparently going to be necessary if I keep doing this stuff. Paint and plastic compatibility is crazy these days. Back in da day, I kept a can of Krylon semi gloss and a can of flat black by the paint table and would do all those up front and would get consistent results no matter the kit maker. Now you really have to test everything together. Krylon paints with primers in them are pretty awful. Can't shoot straight to plastic without getting swirls show up. It's tough for old modelers to change until we see that we can't go forward without learning some new technique to make paints work together. I'm also dealing with this at work as well - painting plastics on gas dispensers in the field. My guys want to use what they always have and it's not working. The PAINTS are the issue now - the reformulations to make paints more environmentally friendly or the manufacturers trying to make paint have all the features possible. Now if I could just get them to listen to the guy who's painted plastics for 40 years.... Good luck working it all out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straightliner59 Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I have had good luck shooting Testors metalizers (I use the spray bomb) as a barrier coat, prior to anything else. It provides a barrier in a thin coat. It also kills any color bleed-through. Too bad Floquil isn't still around. They made bottles and sprays called "Barrier" that worked well, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larman Posted September 19, 2019 Share Posted September 19, 2019 I don't have anything to contribute to the paint conversation, but I will say that I thoroughly enjoy following this build. This and Dennis Lacy's chopped '28 Ford altered sedan are two of my favorites on the board right now! Keep it coming, lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reeves Racing Posted September 20, 2019 Share Posted September 20, 2019 I really like this project. What is in the yellow painted tin you are using to hold your parts on sticks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted September 21, 2019 Share Posted September 21, 2019 On 9/18/2019 at 10:06 AM, Ace-Garageguy said: Thanks for your interest and comments and input about the acrylic. Glad you're enjoying it. That's a good question. Generally, I don't use sealers, even on the real stuff. It's just one more layer of material to cause a problem, and build unwanted, detail-obscuring film thickness on a model. BUT...depending on what happens next time I shoot color on the frame, we'll see. The absolute worst lifting I ever had on a real job was a Pantera that had a tree fall on it. It had recently been painted with acrylic urethane, so I assumed the blends would be easy and straightforward. Wrong. What I didn't know was that the urethane had been shot over a non-sanding enamel primer...something you just don't do. The painter got away with it, but when I shot the blends, the surface wrinkled up like I'd hit it with stripper. It took all the profit out of the job stripping half the car and working out a way to keep the rest of it from lifting. I think I ended up having to use a water-based sealer on that one. Thanks for the info. Makes sense about one more thing to go wrong and paint buildup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 23, 2019 Author Share Posted September 23, 2019 On 9/19/2019 at 9:50 AM, Straightliner59 said: I have had good luck shooting Testors metalizers (I use the spray bomb) as a barrier coat... Hmmmm...interesting idea. I've been experimenting with the stuff lately, using it as a barrier under itself and over primer...a much repeated no-no...and it works well if allowed sufficient dry time. Usually, buffing metalizer won't buff if shot over primer. But if it's shot over a coat of itself (over primer), thoroughly dried, the top coat will polish up as though it's over bare plastic...almost. On 9/19/2019 at 3:08 PM, larman said: ...I will say that I thoroughly enjoy following this build. This and Dennis Lacy's chopped '28 Ford altered sedan are two of my favorites on the board right now! Keep it coming, lol! Thanks. Dennis is one of my favorite builders here as well. On 9/19/2019 at 8:41 PM, Reeves Racing said: I really like this project. What is in the yellow painted tin you are using to hold your parts on sticks? Thanks for the like. The yellow tin is filled with a block of open-cell polyethylene foam. It was a promotional giveaway for something called "The Directory" (printed on the bottom) and I've forgotten entirely what kind of directory it was. It came with a red polyethylene snap-on top. Maybe somebody recalls what it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Darby Posted September 27, 2019 Share Posted September 27, 2019 (edited) On 5/24/2019 at 11:18 AM, Ace-Garageguy said: The Revell front end (I'm assuming you used the Revell front) is much more accurate than AMT's offering I used, and would be much better for doing a street car. My rationale for using the not-very-good AMT front clip is twofold: 1) The model is being built predominantly with parts that were available a long time ago (mostly 50 years +) even though some of the kits used are fairly recent re-releases. Part of the project involves proving the point that a very good model can be built using ancient parts and kits. 2) The model depicts a fiberglass clone of a Corvette body, which would have captured the corvette "look" but not necessarily accurate dimensions. This was a necessary departure in the backstory away from scale-correct, brought about by the poorly-scaled and sculpted AMT parts. M/SP cars had all manner of fiberglass and metal bodies, some derived from glass kit-cars, and warped out of all proportion and virtually unrecognizable, so a not-accurate clone body is in keeping with a believable premise for the build. FYI: I made the body cuts where I did in part because, if you were doing a front clip swap or replacement on a real car, one available option is a skin that extends from the nose all the way back through the door openings. Grafting the new skins at the cove lines (again, on a real car) would allow for precise alignment of the new parts with existing material, and the resulting seam is easily disguised / hidden under the chrome trim that surrounds the coves on many of these cars. Hi Ace. The Revell 60 Corvette is actually a 59 that was originally issued in 1959. It was reissued again in 1961 as a competition Corvette. When I made my 61 conversion, I cut the rear clip from the 62 just behind the doors, with a horizontal cut midway up the body. Only one small seam to fill. Of course your progress is well beyond that point, with beautiful results. Edited September 27, 2019 by Dave Darby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 27, 2019 Author Share Posted September 27, 2019 4 hours ago, Dave Darby said: Hi Ace. The Revell 60 Corvette is actually a 59 that was originally issued in 1959. It was reissued again in 1961 as a competition Corvette. When I made my 61 conversion, I cut the rear clip from the 62 just behind the doors, with a horizontal cut midway up the body. Only one small seam to fill. Of course your progress is well beyond that point, with beautiful results. Thanks Dave. I appreciate your interest and input. Your work on that shell looks great. If I ever decide to do a street version, I'll most likely follow your lead there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 UPDATE SEPT. 30 Not a huge amount going on, just plugging away at getting the bodywork as close to perfect as I can live with prior to paint. Somewhere along the line, I radiused the wheel openings on the front clip I'm using, and I didn't, apparently, get them even. I don't recall why or when or what the project was, but I noticed a problem on this car with the shape of the left side relative to the right side. Only way to correct it properly is to add material back in, and reshape it using a template from the other side. Actually, I'd already added material in to get the openings rounder and more in line with the tops of the coves, but not quite enough...and I didn't notice the mismatch. Yeah, who cares, and you can't see both sides at the same time anyway, so nobody will ever know. But I'll know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobraman Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Great work going on here Bill. I like what your doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 15 hours ago, cobraman said: Great work going on here Bill. I like what your doing. Thanks Ray. Trying to actually finish one is a whole new approach for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake45 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 34 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Trying to actually finish one is a whole new approach for me. FINISH one? What a concept! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randyc Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 21 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Thanks Ray. Trying to actually finish one is a whole new approach for me. What do you have, a huge collection of unfinished kits? And I mean that in a genuinely inquisitive manner, no snark intended. I mean, i have a bunch myself. Not on the detail scale of yours though. I would lose interest way early trying to do all that. I have to make continual progress and finish pretty quick (month or less?) or I'll lose interest and start something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 1, 2019 Author Share Posted October 1, 2019 4 hours ago, randyc said: What do you have, a huge collection of unfinished kits? And I mean that in a genuinely inquisitive manner, no snark intended... No snark taken. Yeah, when I used to post a lot, it was kind of a running joke that I had so many projects going and nothing ever got done. And they'd usually start off like this one, intended to be fairly simple, but developing into complicated, heavily re-engineered monsters. At last count, I had something over 65 in various stages. Some of them stalled because I ran up against not-well-enough-developed-skills for what I envisioned. On some, I had to develop new techniques to achieve the vision. Some fell into historical research internet rabbit holes. Some stopped because I couldn't find exactly the right parts to move forward. On some, my vision changed as the build progressed, and got shelved rather than dealing with a lot of backtracking. As my skills developed, I found I needed to get miniature machine-tools to make some of the stuff I wanted, another diversion. And some fell victim to the Homer effect..."Look! A squirrel !!"... I just started on something else that caught my imagination. Honestly, I was having more fun doing that. Finishing things to my own standards gets to be a lot like work. I have to be an adult in the real world and finish what I start. This hobby used to give me a responsibility-free creative outlet, but nothing was ever completed. So I thought, as I have very limited build time right now, I'd take a different tack and see if I could actually stick to one or two and bring 'em on home. As almost everything I build gets highly modified, the most fun for me is in doing the early design work, mockups, and fitting up to determine if what I want to do is even realistically possible. As I've mastered most of the techniques involved in finishing stuff (other than BMF), once I have the basics stuck together and I can look at a viable mockup, with the stance and proportions and "look" I'm after, I tend to lose interest in what can be the drudgery of the rest of it...particularly when things like the paint problems on this chassis crop up, or the fiddly bodywork around the headlights on this one seems to drag on forever. So...finishing a few is an exercise in adult self-discipline in an area where nobody expects anything from me...but me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gman Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 I can relate to all of those points. Thank you for allowing us to go along on the journey(s) and see what solutions you have applied along the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 13, 2019 Author Share Posted October 13, 2019 On 10/1/2019 at 2:37 PM, gman said: I can relate to all of those points. Thank you for allowing us to go along on the journey(s) and see what solutions you have applied along the way. Thanks for your interest, sir. She's resting at the moment between bouts of sanding and filling and primering. As I mentioned, the area around the headlights is difficult to work, and it's taking some time to get it right. There are a few small new features I'm working out that aren't quite as straightforward as I'd thought they'd be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Ace your comments about ending up with a lot of in progress projects is so true. I've been trying to get some of my incomplete projects finished up. They look so much better finished on the shelf. Its rewarding to see them finished as I had envisioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 On 10/14/2019 at 9:24 PM, bobthehobbyguy said: Ace your comments about ending up with a lot of in progress projects is so true. I've been trying to get some of my incomplete projects finished up. They look so much better finished on the shelf. Its rewarding to see them finished as I had envisioned. Yes sir, I understand. Since 2005, I only have two that are kinda finished, and even those need some additional work...though they're "close enough" to look at and be reasonably happy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spex84 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 This speaks to me...I honestly like doing research and mocking up new ideas more than finishing anything. Once the idea is solid and it's down to bodywork and struggling with paint problems, the fun is over! And when it's done and on the shelf, the main reward is that now I can get back to the fun of planning/starting new projects :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted October 19, 2019 Author Share Posted October 19, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 10:39 PM, Spex84 said: This speaks to me...I honestly like doing research and mocking up new ideas more than finishing anything. Once the idea is solid and it's down to bodywork and struggling with paint problems, the fun is over! And when it's done and on the shelf, the main reward is that now I can get back to the fun of planning/starting new projects Yes sir...I couldn't have said that any better myself. It takes me real self-discipline to stay on track once they're past a certain point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porschercr Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 On 10/15/2019 at 7:39 PM, Spex84 said: This speaks to me...I honestly like doing research and mocking up new ideas more than finishing anything. Once the idea is solid and it's down to bodywork and struggling with paint problems, the fun is over! And when it's done and on the shelf, the main reward is that now I can get back to the fun of planning/starting new projects 10 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Yes sir...I couldn't have said that any better myself. It takes me real self-discipline to stay on track once they're past a certain point. I agree, with both of you guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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