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very very rare Mopar NASCAR headers?


fiatboy

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I'm sorry but those Ram-Horn Manifolds were THEE LAST "manifolds" the Max-Wedge engines used, the first ones were more "tube-like".... BUT these engines were thee engine just before the 426 Hemi came about in '64.....  The 426 Max-Wedge III was thee block that the Hemi heads and intake were bolted too! Here have a read on the REAL "History" of the Max-Wedge engines:

http://maxwedge.com/orangemonster/orangemonster.php

I'm aware of the Max Wedge history...Yes these were the last factory manifolds they did...but as I said...they didn't last long on race cars as they were swapped out for tube headers, at least as efficient and much lighter.
These cast iron Ram Horn manifolds are very rare and you don't see many cars with them today.
Ford did have cast iron racing manifolds for the High Performance FE engines, the short style for 390HP and 406 and the long style for 427 but they also often got replaced with tube headers as the cast iron manifolds had a tendensy to crack and break, and the tube headers are a lot lighter...and as you know...weight is an issue on race cars.

One thing tho...the Hemi has a different block casting than the Wedge engines with mounting points casted in in the lifter valley for the four bolts for each head that you put in from the underside...Hemi only...the Hemi block also have cross bolted mains wich I don't think any other B or RB had, the Hemi also had a different crank with 8 flywheel bolts instead of the 6 bolt for the other B/RB's.

Edited by Force
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I'm aware of the Max Wedge history...Yes these were the last factory manifolds they did...but as I said...they didn't last long on race cars as they were swapped out for tube headers, at least as efficient and much lighter.These cast iron Ram Horn manifolds are very rare and you don't see many cars with them today.
Ford did have cast iron racing manifolds for the High Performance FE engines, the short style for 390HP and 406 and the long style for 427 but they also often got replaced by tube headers as the cast iron manifolds had a tendensy to crack and break, and the tube headers are a lot lighter...and as you know...weight is an issue on race cars.

Yeah, on the Manifolds being used, they often were replaced due to rusting and cracking as you had mentioned, BUT they were NOT "factory" replacement parts! Most times they were in fact replaced with tube headers as after '64 you could no longer get parts for those engines! True and sad fact that when the 426 Hemi came about production of ALL the Max-Wedge engines ceased.... And at a guess, it did not take long for the parts for the Max-Wedge engines to sell out quickly. and you mentioned about them race only, yes! Those engines were NEVER put in a "street car". as they didn't have too! The only Street cars that were "Race Ready" were those found on the NASCAR tracks racing.... what won Sunday, sold Monday! The racing they did with the Max-Wedge engines didn't require the same car top be sold to the general public for street use! Where NASCAR did require that for Chrysler to race the Hermi on their tracks!

And yes weight was an issue, those cast iron Ram-Horn headers were heavy.. I'd carried a couple sets of them over the years, and there isn't ANYTHING "light" about 'em!

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Don't know how true but supposedly the these "Petty" headers came on this car and they are the original factory header to the car. Not arguing or anything just know what they are saying. Restorations are hard to read because there's no telling what someone deems original to the vehicle. I believe he's got the documentation to prove it though.

http://www.garlandmotorsports.com/65-super-stock.html

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Don't know how true but supposedly the these "Petty" headers came on this car and they are the original factory header to the car. Not arguing or anything just know what they are saying. Restorations are hard to read because there's no telling what someone deems original to the vehicle. I believe he's got the documentation to prove it though.

http://www.garlandmotorsports.com/65-super-stock.html

Paul,

Thats an interesting article, but I'm not sure what to believe on that one! Restorations are VERY difficult as if you look through the whole article where the engine is on the Dyno, it has regular "tube" headers, and when you look further down the page, where they're getting ready to install the engine from underneath, it shows "headers", BUT I can't make out a "second flange mid-way of the piping for the exhaust. SO, I'm not sure on that one, VERY  contradicting information just by the pics alone! PLUS in the beginning of the article, they mention that the exhaust was custom fitted.... Makes me wonder if that car HAS "NASCAR Petty headers, where'd they get "good ones" from! Those are NOT the easiest part to come by! As they were last made in '66! (ALTHO I'm sure driver's teams had 'em stock piled for years Richard himself is said to STILL have some of those stock piled!)

Makes for things VERY difficult when doing a full report and all if ya simply don't know, who's to say whats to believe! I just know those special Hemi Headers deemed "NASCAR Hemi Headers" were handled and all by Petty Enterprise back in the day, you couldn't even get these from a Dealership nevermind directly from Mopar unless you were a NASCAR team! Thats within the record books, BUT that too, there have been  A LOT of things over the years that Ma Mopar did, un-documented so..... As well as simply "interesting" mistakes, I once seen a '72 Plymouth Duster on one side of the car, and had a Dodge Demon emblem on the other STOCK!!!! -As far as I know the woman that bought the car new, off the show room floor, STILL has it too!

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Good link for the Texas Rattler . Ive seen the car in person and I can assure you the car is as close to correct as they come

 

I'd forgot about Darrell Davis and Greg Lanes info. Anything and everything you need to know about the Max Wedge or Race Hemi can be found right here

http://racehemi.maxwedge.com/

 

Ps, this is the 1st I've ever heard them called ' Petty Headers ' or Nascar Only Headers. To my knowledge they were standard issue on every factory produced 1964 and 1965 Race Hemi car. Be it an oval track packaged or Drag Race packaged car

Edited by gtx6970
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  • 2 weeks later...

Paul,

Thats an interesting article, but I'm not sure what to believe on that one! Restorations are VERY difficult as if you look through the whole article where the engine is on the Dyno, it has regular "tube" headers, and when you look further down the page, where they're getting ready to install the engine from underneath, it shows "headers", BUT I can't make out a "second flange mid-way of the piping for the exhaust. SO, I'm not sure on that one, VERY  contradicting information just by the pics alone! PLUS in the beginning of the article, they mention that the exhaust was custom fitted.... Makes me wonder if that car HAS "NASCAR Petty headers, where'd they get "good ones" from! Those are NOT the easiest part to come by! As they were last made in '66! (ALTHO I'm sure driver's teams had 'em stock piled for years Richard himself is said to STILL have some of those stock piled!)

Makes for things VERY difficult when doing a full report and all if ya simply don't know, who's to say whats to believe! I just know those special Hemi Headers deemed "NASCAR Hemi Headers" were handled and all by Petty Enterprise back in the day, you couldn't even get these from a Dealership nevermind directly from Mopar unless you were a NASCAR team! Thats within the record books, BUT that too, there have been  A LOT of things over the years that Ma Mopar did, un-documented so..... As well as simply "interesting" mistakes, I once seen a '72 Plymouth Duster on one side of the car, and had a Dodge Demon emblem on the other STOCK!!!! -As far as I know the woman that bought the car new, off the show room floor, STILL has it too!

Here I come out of nowhere to stick my nose in the conversation!:huh:

The photo below depicts the exhaust system that would have come on a factory assembled Race Hemi car in1964 and 1965. This is documented! Yes, they do look very similar to the "Petty" headers! Were they exactly the same? I can't answer that but they sure are close.

65_093-vi.jpg

I have seen photos of original A990 cars from 1965 and these are definitely what those cars came with. The single exhaust and muffler are also correct for those cars. It would seem to make sense that Chrysler would use parts that they had previously developed (NASCAR headers) in order to save time and development costs.

These headers were quickly replaced on drag cars for a couple of reasons, They were heavy, they were complex, difficult to r&r, and it was extremely difficult to service the transmission!

The restoration of the Texas Rattler in the link was an extremely thorough and high dollar effort. There is no reason to expect that they would go through all the trouble and expense to install an incorrect (and expensive) exhaust system on the car. As far as the headers being different from those in the dyno pic, headers used on a dyno are often not the headers that will eventually be installed in the car.

Regarding "where'd they get "good ones" from!", they can be reproduced and they are quite costly!

WF

 

Edited by 6bblbird
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