[[Template core/front/global/utilitiesMenu does not exist. This theme may be out of date. Run the support tool in the AdminCP to restore the default theme.]]
Paul Hettick

Another recaster alert! Page resins this time.

Recommended Posts

Page resins has taken upon himself to copy the Modelhaus 76 Coupe de Ville and Mirage pick up. I helped master the Coupe de VIlle doing the body and front bumper. Modelhaus did the rest. I know the Modelhaus is no longer taking orders for these, but he is still casting them to fill orders and the company is up for sale.

I checked with Don Holthaus and Page resins did not ask permission to copy his work.

Edited by Paul Hettick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

people keep telling me to recast some modelhaus stuff, stating that since they are  no longer casting...but my ethics wont allow me to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

This "Page" guy ("Pedro"?) was set up at the last Detroit-area show (I don't live there - there was a partial photo of his table on the Spotlight Board). I found his e-mail address but he did not respond to me. His Facebook page is not public.

He must be trying for "Business Man of the Year".

 

John

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

people keep telling me to recast some modelhaus stuff, stating that since they are  no longer casting...but my ethics wont allow me to.

Which is why you are considered one of the best in the business Jeff! You have excellent products and a great business ethic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is absurd.  Nobody will post information about this seller, just casually mention his name or seven layer encrypted photos on his facebook page.  I have tried every way I can and cannot get information.  No pictures, no price list, no nothing.  I don't think Modelhaus has much to worry about if this mystery caster remains as well hidden as he has from me.  It is infuriating for people to post something they have acquired and then be unwilling or unable to provide sources.  

But at least now I know the apparent products are unauthorized duplicates and will not buy anyway.

Edited by RomanII

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at most resin casters they are casting from other companies. This has been going on for a long time. Most rip off the model companies but we don't hear anyone complaining about that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at most resin casters they are casting from other companies. This has been going on for a long time. Most rip off the model companies but we don't hear anyone complaining about that.

I think in a lot of cases, the model companies just don't really care.

If they were making parts-packs with some of the more popular kitbashing stuff available, it would be one thing. Copying them and re-casting would be direct and unfair competition, where the re-caster had no development or high tooling costs and was taking a free-ish ride on the backs of the manufacturers.

But the manufacturers don't make single parts or complete engines or wheel-sets (etc.) readily available, and they probably don't feel like getting all hot and bothered trying to FORCE people to buy an entire kit to get a single part...which I often do anyway, by the way.

But when a re-caster appropriates the hard work of a single individual who has mastered (scratch-built the first original pattern) his own parts and made his own molds of same, and the re-caster copies original parts for resale, it's another thing entirely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you look at most resin casters they are casting from other companies. This has been going on for a long time. Most rip off the model companies but we don't hear anyone complaining about that.

Your blanket statement is only partially right Chris. Some older or rare parts are recast, but a lot of what is being sold in resin was never manufactured by the model companies. Some of the pieces may have started out as a piece from a model company, but have been highly modified to something completely different. There is a lot of time, skill and money put into making a master.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a lot of time, skill and money put into making a master.

Ha yeah that is how I start my parts, from original kit parts. I just finished my first engine complete top to bottom that I've been working on at nights since September. An as for money yes it does get pricey spending $30 on a kit just for a detailed timing chain cover to work with.

I do wonder about recasting box stock parts an hope to avoid doing so myself. So far only my oil filters are box stock. As long as we don't make a direct part for part kit we only help as the consumer has to buy a full kit to put our parts into.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

people keep telling me to recast some modelhaus stuff, stating that since they are  no longer casting...but my ethics wont allow me to.

Now this is what I would expect from you Jeff. You guys have always been another treasure of the hobby.  Just wonder if and hope his line will be sold to quality guys like your group. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think in a lot of cases, the model companies just don't really care.

If they were making parts-packs with some of the more popular kitbashing stuff available, it would be one thing. Copying them and re-casting would be direct and unfair competition, where the re-caster had no development or high tooling costs and was taking a free-ish ride on the backs of the manufacturers.

But the manufacturers don't make single parts or complete engines or wheel-sets (etc.) readily available, and they probably don't feel like getting all hot and bothered trying to FORCE people to buy an entire kit to get a single part...which I often do anyway, by the way.

But when a re-caster appropriates the hard work of a single individual who has mastered (scratch-built the first original pattern) his own parts and made his own molds of same, and the re-caster copies original parts for resale, it's another thing entirely.

Ace, I can see your thought pattern on this, however to me it is still stealing someone else's work.  Somewhere, someone had to spend countless hours making the tool for the original injection mold and that work belongs to him or the company.  Remember the big tiff over NASCAR decals, tire sidewall markings, etc, because of licensing fees, quite the same issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had people copy and take my HO model train parts. I don't care anymore as I refused to make more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry the way I wrote my post.Yes it was a blanket statement and I will change that by saying there are some out there since I have not ordered from all of them. I am all for supporting the little guy and think we should all post if we find a caster ripping off others, unless their cheaper (J/k)....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel your (and everyone else's pain), Paul.  Been there, done that.  I've had my stuff (cars, ideas and publications) ripped off, too.  The problem is, legally there is no copy right to such things as car design.  Everyone who casts in resin has copied somebody else's stuff, or they would never have been in business.  It doesn't matter if it's a resin 1967 Chevrolet they copied from Modelhaus or a real car they borrowed and pantographed, there are no copyrights to car styling, unfortunately.  For more information on this very delicate subject, consult a patent attorney or an IP practitioner for the latest information.  Hope this helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Q. When I sell my work, does the buyer have the right to copy it or take and sell photos or prints of it?

A. No. Selling a painting, sculpture, or other artwork is a sale of the object only. The sale does not convey copyrights, unless you specifically agree to do that. This means the person who buys your work has no right to make copies of your work or even to adapt it into another form. For example, the buyer of a painting cannot photograph your work or make posters of it and sell the photos or the posters. The buyer of a sculpture cannot copy it to make molded versions of the sculpture, whether they be simulations or plastic, miniaturized versions of the sculpture. Only you as owner and author of the copyrights can do that. You do not need a contract with the buyers to retain these rights. And if you find that one of your buyers has reproduced or adapted your work without your permission, you are entitled to sue him or her for copyright infringement.

Anastasia P. Winslow is an intellectual property attorney in Princeton, NJ, where she practices patent and copyright law. She also is an adjunct professor of copyright and patent law at Seton Hall University School of Law in Newark, NJ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^^Somebody oughta tell those guys on Epay who sell fridge magnet copies of model car box art :P

I spent some time today casting some parts...a couple scratchbuilt, a couple from my 3D prints, a couple mastered from kit parts, and honestly a bunch from various vintage kit sources that I wanted multiples of for my own projects. The funny thing is, as soon as I pour rubber to copy kit parts, I end up finding a decent deal on the kit in question, negating the need for resin and wasting all that mold rubber. Lol. Like, I made myself a bunch of blower end-plates based on my favorite kit parts, because I didn't have enough of them...and then lucked into a spare-parts lot that gave me enough kit blower casings and end plates for a lifetime.

I don't sell copies of anything I've put a ton of effort into, because I just know somebody will re-cast it, and I'd rather be the only guy who has it. Ha!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 24/02/2017 at 10:12 AM, one_eyed_croaker said:

If you look at most resin casters they are casting from other companies. This has been going on for a long time. Most rip off the model companies but we don't hear anyone complaining about that.

There's a recaster on this forum & everybody praises him & his work, I'm confused. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/24/2017 at 9:10 AM, TarheelRick said:

Ace, I can see your thought pattern on this, however to me it is still stealing someone else's work.  Somewhere, someone had to spend countless hours making the tool for the original injection mold and that work belongs to him or the company. 

The model companies don't only not care, but they cooperate with legitimate resin casters. It's actually good for their business when someone pops out a body variation on a current kit. After all, the person who buys that resin piece also needs to buy the kit to complete it.  It's known that Modelhaus resins have been used by model companies for design work, idea models and actual box art models in more than one occasion.  Model companies have given legit casters preproduction samples so they could get a jump on producing products to compliment them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 8:03 PM, Spex84 said:

^^^^Somebody oughta tell those guys on Epay who sell fridge magnet copies of model car box art :P

 

Copyrights, patents and trademarks are as varied as insects.  As both a civil arbitrator and one who actively collects cars and writes and publishes books and music, the subject of intellectual property is very close to me.  Some items are copyrightable with certain modifications, other are not.  Some copyrights expire, and if someone uses them w/o permission, and the owner neglects take remedial action within a prescribed statute, they become public domain.  Others expire by default, if not used for the purpose for which intended, usually interstate commerce, within a prescribed time.  Intellectual property laws can vary from state to state and country to country. 

Back in the early 1980s domestic auto manufacturers went to great lengths to warn the public, with huge, full-page newspaper ads, that ALL of their car names were protected by copyright or trademark.  My research proved the majority of these were outright lies.  Ford, for example, claimed such names as Model T, Pinto, Ranger, Edsel and Ranchero were protected, when in fact they had expired years ago.  The only names I was able to find actively protected were the names they were using for current models in production.  On the flip side of this coin, many owners of protected properties actively encourage use of their work, since it promotes goodwill for their products. 

For the best information on this very sticky subject, contact an attorney who specializes in intellectual property rights. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings,

Page Resin (no 's') was present at the Spring D.A.A.M. show here in SE Michigan, while there  I gathered up a business card.  Although not wholly versed in relation to who has tooled or retooled what in terms of the wares seen, a shell that looked suspiciously like the old Modelhaus '86-'90 box-style Chevrolet Impala 4-door body was being offered for sale.  Maybe 25% of the products seen looked clean enough, although others seemed a bit fuzzy and a touch grainy in terms of surface finish.   Prices asked seemed to be set at a uniform $70.  Traffic didn't seem heavy at this table, whereas at one moment I was embarrassed to overhear a discussion with a customer that related to using fronts to purchase the wares of other resin casting outfits - not nice this, but such was indeed the case.  The discussion seemed to have been initiated by a customer out to get something cheaper, hence I didn't strictly take the discussion to be wildly boastful.  Below is recorded what printed on the business card collected:

PAGE RESIN

Pedro Escanio

EMAIL

pageresin@yahoo.com

FACEBOOK

pageresin

...and that's it.  

Mike K./Swede70

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see Page has now copied Modelhaus's 61 Coupe de Ville.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now