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1967 Trans-Am Mustang - Aug 24 update - test fit primered body


49 posts in this topic

Posted

Even during a busy summer I have managed to find some time to do some car modelling. I got all the parts together and finished the modifications and fabrications. I decided to first concentrate on completing all the under-body assemblies so all those necessary parts were painted. The order of construction will be engine and engine compartment followed by chassis and suspension and then the interior.

-         I separated the engine compartment from the body which got joined to the frame, firewall, radiator housing and floor [I am not sure I would do this again as getting everything finally into finished body may be a problem]

-         Removed windshield washer fluid bag and mounted remote oil filter in its place

-         Smoothed off battery platform

-         Oil cooler mounted to radiator

-         Fabricated dual quad intake manifold to mount four-barrel carbs from Revell Deuce kits. Air cleaners from R/M 427 Cobra

-         Added Monte Carlo bar

-         Added breathers to valve covers

-         Replicas & Miniatures pre-drilled distributor

-         Exhaust headers modified from Revell Deuce kits joined to aluminium tube exhaust pipes [photos next update]

-         Fabricated Shelby style oil pan [photos next update]

013012009

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Posted

CHASSIS

-         Raised front spindles

-         To be able to fit wide rear tires squared up rear tubs by vertically cutting inner radius and bending inwards. Forward mountings of rear springs moved inwards

-         Rear spring mounts trimmed and springs de-arched to lower ride height

-         Over-rider traction bars mounted to axle and through to interior

-         Gas tank removed from chassis and painted separately

-         Wimbledon White over-spray on red-oxide chassis

-         Added rear drum brake backing plated

-         American Torque-Thrust wheels and Goodyear Bluestreak Sports Car Special tires from Revell Corvette C-3 racecars

004

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Posted

Coming along nicely Phil.

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Posted

Good work Phil.

Some time back I posted a thread in the 1:1 car photos section of pictures I took of one of the Shelby '67 TA Mustangs that I worked on restoring. Phototoilet killed those pictures. But I can post some in here as attachments. It only lets me do that 3 pictures at a time. But I'll do what I can.

 

I was a Tech Inspector for SCCA races when this car was new. The Shelby Mustangs actually were NOT the 1st Trans Am racers to be acid dipped. Actually Shelby didn't dip any of them as they built them. I worked with John Timanus (SCCA Pro Series Tech Chief) and my dad (Jack Parcells - Cal Club [SCCA So Cal Region] Chief of Rules Enforcement) to inspect AND REJECT Smokey Yunick's 67 Camaro at Riverside. THAT car was ACID DIPPED!!!!

I Tech inspected the one I later restored which was Fred Sutherland's.

The rear leaf springs used on the race cars were narrower than stock, and were spaced toward the inboard side of the perches and shackles to allow tire room.

It seems like the engine winds up rather far forward in the engine bay in that AMT '67 chassis. I'll have to look into that in my '67 build.

The Shelby '67 Mustangs were all shipped from the San Jose Ford plant in Wimbledon white. In dismantling the Sutherland Mustang, I found Wimbledon white inside the car, under the dashboard, under the belly, inside the front and rear wheel wells, and under the semi-gloss black in the engine bay. It appears to me that Ford painted the entire car the same color. The engine bay and front of the core support were then painted black. My '61 Falcon is ALL Algiers Bronze, my '64 Falcon is ALL Wimbledon White. Bruce Springsteen's '69 Galaxie Convertible  I did some restoration work on is ALL Gulfstream Aqua. There was none of the "primer over sprayed with finish color under the belly" type of paint application that is SO popular with "restorers". Seems more accurate for Mopars. I would say for the paint of your model to be totally right it should be Wimbledon white under the belly with maybe some "God-Awful Yellow" overspray near the edges. That would have made for less work cutting things apart for paint.

That yellow, BTW, is a Corvette color. Shelby sent one of the shop employees down to the local paint supply shop they dealt with to pick up some paint for the Shelby Team race cars. They had some yellow that had not been picked up, so they sold it to him cheap. Shelby wasn't real happy, others liked it. But it wound up making for a pretty good looking and distinctive paint scheme.

Jerry Titus was an interesting character. Fun personality and quite a good race car driver. Probably would have made a good car salesman if he had turned his attention that way. His son Rick worked with me on a race team (Ron Dykes Sunbeam Tiger) in 1968.

For 1967, your model is correct to have a stock gas tank, as that was required in '67. In '68 fuel cells were allowed by the rules.

289 engine built by Shelby guy Dave Dralle whose shop is at Willow Springs Raceway - 487hp. But after initial track test, it got switched to single Holley for slightly less hp, but better tractability. This car held the A/Sedan track record at Willow in 1967-69. Note how the 289 sits in the engine bay compared to the AMT fit.

 

 

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Posted

Roll bar. Horizontal bar that goes all the way across is not original Shelby. It was added to put the shoulder harnesses at the right height for Fred, who is tall.

Then the over-rider traction bars are shown. Axle end and then interior brackets. I had to re-make these interior brackets as the originals were damaged by someone putting in bolts that were too small and it egged out the holes. There is a slot cut in the floor panel just inboard of the wheel well for the traction bar.

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Posted

By the way... I've been criticized pretty harshly by those who think they know for those welds looking so crappy. I worked hard to make them look like the original welds. The originals looked like that and lasted nearly 50 years. I even had to grind out and re-do some welds because they came out too nice. A nice stack of dimes is NOT how race cars were built in the 1960s.

So...More pics, starting with the covers for the traction bars:

 

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Posted

Interior. Ignore the blankets used to protect the paint while we were building the car.

And where Shelby mounted the oil cooler. I have one of the original Harrison/Shelby oil coolers in my garage. I posted a couple of pics of it in AFX's thread on his '64 Falcon on Road Race Model cars Forum.

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Posted

Shelby-Harrison Oil Cooler and through-the-trunk-lid fuel filler neck.

Shelby-HarrisonOilCooler_GT350-Tiger_0579_750x420.jpg

Shelby-HarrisonOilCooler_GT350-Tiger_0581_750x420.jpg

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Posted

Shelby-Harrison Oil Cooler and through-the-trunk-lid fuel filler neck.

Thanks Richard for your replies and photos. I learnt a lot from your first post. As you will see once I complete the interior that I made up a set of traction bar covers based on the ones you fabricated. I had considered trying to contact you but was not sure you still visited this forum. I never attended a race during the original TA era but did see many of the cars race at a July 1967 USRRC event at Kent Washington. I have seen the historic Trans Am group race on many occasion at Laguna Seca, Portland and Kent. I also have a buddy who raced a  67 Camaro as a privateer in the series in 1971 and 72. His best finish was his first race - ninth at Lime Rock.

 

 

 

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Posted

Oh, the power steering ram should be removed. No power steering used in road race cars in those days. Not against the rules, just not used. Eats more horsepower and things that are not there cannot fail.

You're welcome for any help I can provide. Let me know if there's any part I might have pics of that you need to see. I know this is your model and I don't mean to tell you how you HAVE TO build it. But since I was there then and have restored a few 1:1 Trans Am race cars, I have some knowledge to share.

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Posted

Oh, the power steering ram should be removed. No power steering used in road race cars in those days. Not against the rules, just not used. Eats more horsepower and things that are not there cannot fail.

You're welcome for any help I can provide. Let me know if there's any part I might have pics of that you need to see. I know this is your model and I don't mean to tell you how you HAVE TO build it. But since I was there then and have restored a few 1:1 Trans Am race cars, I have some knowledge to share.

Good advice concerning the power steering ram. I did removed the master cylinder booster as I assumed brakes were also totally non assisted.

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Posted

Are you going to scratch build the seat?

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Posted

Are you going to scratch build the seat?

Maxx - I going to use the racing seat from the R/M Shelby GT350R as it is very close to the seat in DustyMojave's photo which makes sense as the 67 Mustang TA Notchbacks were built by Shelby. I have to cut slots for the side belts.

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Posted (edited)

INTERIOR

-         Removed instrument and radio detail from dash. Made gauge decal from internet image

-         Parts box steering wheel with holes drilled out

-         Sanded off carpet texture from floor and added front seat floor relief. Paintd Testors Wimbledon White lacquer

-         Seat from Revell GT350R with photo-etched seat belts [I have fixed the loose end on the roll-bar!!]

-         Rear seat removed from AMT 66 Mustang replaced by a ribbed flat bulkhead. Assembly joined to trimmed 67 interior

-         Covers fabricated for over-rider traction bars

-         Fabricated roll bar as per early 67 TA season

-         Hurst shift from AMT 69 Cougar with pin “knob”

Now I will move onto finishing, painting and decaling the body. Once the body is mated to the chassis I will post Under Glass. I have found this project very interesting and have learned a lot about the early Trans-Am racecars and model car building in general. I hope I can heed those lessons with future Trans-Am projects.

WORTHY OF NOTE – When building any version of the AMT ’67 Mustang as noted by Dusty Mojave, the engine should be moved back about 3mm or about 1/8 inch. This will require moving the engine mounts, filling the bottom hole in the transmission, shortening the driveshaft and increasing the length of the radiator hoses.

Also pointed out by Dusty Mojave, the oil cooler should have been mounted in front of the radiator and the bottom of the car should have been painted Wimbledon White.

011010005

 

Edited by Phildaupho

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Posted

Very nice build. I really enjoy the attention to detail that you're applying to this car. 

By the way, there's a contradiction between the metric and imperial dimensions you mention for the engine setback. 3mm is close to 1/8" and 6mm is close to 1/4".

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Posted

Very nice build. I really enjoy the attention to detail that you're applying to this car. 

By the way, there's a contradiction between the metric and imperial dimensions you mention for the engine setback. 3mm is close to 1/8" and 6mm is close to 1/4".

Thanks Mike for pointing that out - 3mm and 1/8" are the correct distance to set the engine back and have corrected above.

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Posted

Thanks for posting the pics and interesting background info, Mr P. You must have had some unusually detailed cars to look at in your time with the extra paint and all, but your statement...

 There was none of the "primer over sprayed with finish color under the belly" type of paint application that is SO popular with "restorers"...

.. doesn't exactly square with the reality of the assembly lines of the day then... or even now. Most factories had the bodies pulled along the line on a frame hooked up to a conveyor. After a dip in the primer tank and a bake, the bodies were painted. Now, unless the guys painting had the arms and flexibility of an orangutan, there were areas that simply could not be painted fully which is why the overspray you make out to be a myth exists on many survivor cars that are studied by the 'restorers' you diss. Memories are funny things; sometimes they're hard to count on.

mike

here's vintage pic to show what I mean...

 

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Posted

After giving the body its first coat of primer I could not resist mounting it to the chassis to see how it looks. This must have been sort of how the 26 white Trans-Am notchbacks built by Shelby looked as they were being finished.

001005003

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Posted

Thanks for posting the pics and interesting background info, Mr P. You must have had some unusually detailed cars to look at in your time with the extra paint and all, but your statement...

.. doesn't exactly square with the reality of the assembly lines of the day then... or even now. Most factories had the bodies pulled along the line on a frame hooked up to a conveyor. After a dip in the primer tank and a bake, the bodies were painted. Now, unless the guys painting had the arms and flexibility of an orangutan, there were areas that simply could not be painted fully which is why the overspray you make out to be a myth exists on many survivor cars that are studied by the 'restorers' you diss. Memories are funny things; sometimes they're hard to count on.

mike

here's vintage pic to show what I mean...

 

65mstgfctryline.jpg

Yup.

Been there, seen that photo before, Mike.

Note that the body in the midground is on a hanging fixture . The bodies on left are heading upstairs. The body in the foreground still has more structure to be added before it gets painted. Note the quarter panel/roof seam has not been filled, and there is more to be added back by the trunk. Different manufacturers may well have used somewhat different methods. And I'm not working from "memory" on this issue. Nor judging based on restored cars, or re-pained cars. I'm basing my statements about Fords (and I see the Falcon in your avatar) on the original paint on the 2 Falcons in my back yard and the Mustang of the type this model build is about that I showed you pics of. Both of my Falcons were built in the same San Jose plant that Shelby's Mustangs were all built in. One of those Falcons was purchased new by my grandparents and still has original paint inside and underneath. The other is still in its original Wimbledon white. That Shelby Mustang I took entirely apart and removed rust damaged parts of the body structure. Yeah, my friend's 68 Roadrunner Hemi had blue metallic overspray on the primer under the rubberized undercoat dealer sprayed underneath. This isn't a Roadrunner or a Mopar at all. It isn't a GM product either. We can keep arguing. I have reported what I found. Not what somebody told me. Not based on memory. Or what's in a recent magazine or old black and white pictures that may be from a different plant.

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Posted

That's fair commentary, reporting what you've seen; and I don't mean any offence. My statements are based on what I understand to be Ford's main objective: buck, paint and assemble car/truck bodies in the quickest, most efficient manner available to be sold in a competitive marketplace. Though practices were basically standardized at their factories, I have heard of some procedures and primer color differences unique to certain assembly points but have never personally seen any pics or even read credible reports of completely painted bodies, other than possibly show cars specially ordered. Ford, like GM and Chrysler, generally wasn't going to waste paint on areas proven to not need it. Sounds like you have some interesting specimens there.

We should get back to the main attraction here, the fantastic job that Phil is doing on this Mustang... B)

 

mike

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Posted (edited)

I think this what we are all shooting for except for the rear window.  Pics from West Coast NNL

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Edited by vamach1
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Posted

Having myself worked for some years in assembly lines, I can safely say that some overspray is to be expected on the underbody close to the sill area. Painting the belly of the car would require a considerable amount of paint, and that is before the whole "how to apply it" gets into the equation. That ads CO$T$, and in mass produced cars that is a no no.

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Posted

I have found this to be very interesting to say the least.  Fantastic information from Richard, thank you for your knowledge.  Please post more pics of your work on 1-1 real cars.  Looks to me that you do fantastic work.  Any pics from you would be welcomed, we could use them for our model builds as go to information.

Great models from Rex.

Phil, enjoying your hard work on your fantastic trans am car. It's looking fantastic so far. Can hardly wait to see it completed.

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Posted (edited)

Looks great. With all these old T/A's popping up, we might need us a proper race. Could use a few bowties first though....

(great info here)

289 engine built by Shelby guy Dave Dralle whose shop is at Willow Springs Raceway - 487hp. But after initial track test, it got switched to single Holley for slightly less hp, but better tractability. This car held the A/Sedan track record at Willow in 1967-69. Note how the 289 sits in the engine bay compared to the AMT fit.

 

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Man, they really did shoehorn that dual-quad in there, didn't they!

Edited by Dieselhead

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