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American 185 Heavy

A General Observation

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I belong to several model car sites and often get great ideas for detailing or see models that are rare and it is enjoyable. However I have often wondered, why more builders just can't seem to leave well enough alone and build factory ?? Models of cars that real people actually drove daily or owned, rather than chop them, lower them, have a million flames flying off them etc. To me that is great if you are 13 or 14 and have dreams or have seen it on tv, but for real adults makes you wonder. Why waste time effort and money on something that most probably are only being polite and saying great, very nice, great build etc.?? Recently saw a model of a beautiful rare Cadillac, that to me was destroyed by lowering it to one inch from the ground, a truly obnoxious color, and wheels that belonged on a bicycle, not a model car. If that is what floats your boat, then God Bless you, but we don't need to see hourly progress reports, how you agonized installing flame number 90, and details of a painted radio knob etc. Kind of silly and a waste of space. But to each his own. Just something that is a personal pet peeve to me. The finished product is one thing, the attachment or painting of every part is quite another. Might interest some but I think the majority are just being polite and really could care less. Who knows, just a few thoughts..........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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"However I have often wondered, why more builders just can't seem to leave well enough alone and build factory ?? Models of cars that real people actually drove daily or owned, rather than chop them, lower them, have a million flames flying off them etc. To me that is great if you are 13 or 14 and have dreams or have seen it on tv, but for real adults makes you wonder. Why waste time effort and money on something that most probably are only being polite and saying great, very nice, great build etc.?? "

Pretty much agree with you on these points. Often think to myself: "If you like the car, then why are you screwing it up" Think the same of most real customs. Didn't particularly like them when I was "13 or 14" and even less now. Not that there isn't a lot of outstanding workmanship on them; but to my eye a lot are just ugly or grotesque (and this coming from a person who likes Citroëns and Tatras). I've always thought this is a major reason why there is some of the (possibly overblown) antagonism between IPMS types and model railroaders. Now I don't mind seeing step-by-step photos so much, but can see your point. Its like probably most of the custom buildings wouldn't enjoy seeing photos of searching for info and step-by-step of the 6 or 7 hours I made correcting the steering wheel and dash on the 1955 Renault 4cv I'm working on....and it is different from a 56. I know "rivet counter", get that a lot. Before this turns into a manifesto.

 

Sorry couldn't resist.

A 55 and prior gauge panels a 56 up dash, but still with the older style steering wheel.

 

RENAULT 4CV 1954 gauges.jpg

Reanult 4cv 1956 Sport luxe interior dash.JPG

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I get what you are saying but like the 1:1 world, many view model building as an expression of art. Now, it will be argued what constitutes art and whose definition you use, but what is ugly to one is beauty to another.

Some vehicles lend themselves to being customized better than others, but as I learned early on in life...To each his own.

A good example for me would be lowriders. I don't think much of them as useful means of transportation but I do admire the work (usually the paint) that goes into them. While I might drool over a properly restored 1969 Camaro, the next guy will say it should be cut up and given the pro touring look with cartoon wheels and modern amenities. 

Whatever your taste, know that you are probably not alone and hopefully there is enough other like minded people out there to share your view.

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Frankly I find factory stock anything to be really quite boring. I love cars, but I will walk right by a factory stock Model A, to go check out the hot rod next to it.

As for models. It's just plastic. Get over it.

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The neat thing about modeling is the wide variety of subject matter. It can go from whimsical to museum quality replicas. It would be boring if everyone built the same thing. Its also fun to see other interpretation of automobiles. The point is to have fun and enjoy what you built.As with the variety of subject is the variety of style in presenting a work in progress. The point is share ideas and techniques. Again if everybody did things the same way it would be boring. My advice is look for those who build the style and present the wip in the format you want. Just be aware that you are going to miss a lot of great stuff by limiting what you look at.

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I belong to several model car sites and often get great ideas for detailing or see models that are rare and it is enjoyable. However I have often wondered, why more builders just can't seem to leave well enough alone and build factory ?? Models of cars that real people actually drove daily or owned, rather than chop them, lower them, have a million flames flying off them etc. To me that is great if you are 13 or 14 and have dreams or have seen it on tv, but for real adults makes you wonder....

Really? Wonder about what, exactly? And who made you the final arbiter of taste, or what's a waste of space?

I personally find most stock builds boring, (unless they're exquisite pieces of work like Seve Guthmiller, Cato, Harry P. and a few others produce) ...but I don't call out builders of "stock" and label them as unimaginative sheep and use phrases like "makes you wonder". Again, wonder about WHAT, exactly?

The automotive aftermarket for modification parts and services is a multi-BILLION dollar segment of the economy. Apparently there are quite a few adults who think stock is boring too.

I also personally design and build REAL custom, race-cars and hot-rods, get paid pretty well to do it, and have done so most of my life. I consider it as valid an art form as any other, and when it includes technical sophistication and world-class function, it's one hell of a lot more difficult than most "art" processes.

I'm not 13 or 14 either.

I think MOST people who build custom or hot-rod models are people who would do so in real life, but possibly don't have the space, time, money or skill...so they enjoy the creative aspect of the car hobby building models of things they would do in full scale under different circumstances.

 

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There's no accounting for taste & everybody has their own likes, dislikes & reasons for building what they build.

I grew up in a small town in the upper midwest & the cars that I saw on a daily basis were stock or nearly stock.

So to this day, that's still where my interests lie.

Just the opposite of what "Jantrix" said, I'll knock people down at a car show who are looking at the tricked out '32 Ford to get to the bone stock '55 Plymouth Belvedere behind it.

But, that's just me.

I have no problem with people building, eating, wearing or driving whatever they choose & I think it only stokes unnecessary flames to suggest that one approach is wrong, and the other right.

There is no "wrong or right" when it comes to building.

That being said, I do agree that it makes me a little queasy inside when I see someone cut up a rare vintage kit that's in fine condition.

I think of owning my vintage kits as merely "borrowing" them for a time.

I won't be around forever & it sure would be nice to leave some restorable kits for the next generation of enthusiasts.

Once a model is chopped up beyond recognition, it's gone forever in my opinion.

Just my thoughts.

 

Steve

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It's just my opinion, and we all know opinions are like.... 

To me, it doesn't matter if it's rare or if it's the most common kit ever, it was made to be built. Your vision of what it is, is just that... Your vision. Just as someone that builds one box stock or factory stock. That's your vision. 

Some one that shows updates all throughout the build may give some kind of insight to someone else going thru a road block at that very moment. And what one may not find interesting, may be the most interesting thing in the world to someone else. It's what makes all unique... If everybody done it all the same, how boring would that be.

And if you don't care for the content, don't click on the thread.

 

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To me, I build every model like I would like to own it. I wont build a model car of a real car I wouldnt personally own. And my personal car is modified, so why wouldnt my models be? Plus, as stated above, its a lot cheaper to build a car, lets say a 69 camaro, totally custom to scale, than in real life. There are about a dozen different ways to build one that would fit my personal taste. 

Edited by drummerdad
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Really? Wonder about what, exactly? And who made you the final arbiter of taste, or what's a waste of space?

 

You do realize in your seemingly infinite wisdom that a customized car on trade in is worthless to a dealer don't you ?? Won't pass any state tests other than those that don't bother to properly inspect a motor vehicle, and there are a few of those states yes. But in mine everything from tires to wiper blades is inspected and if it is questionable, the big red sticker goes on the windshield. You can't legally drive them in most states, and what thrill can anyone possibly get from raising a pickup 7 feet off the ground, installing tires meant for a Humvee, and installing exhausts from a freightliner,  let alone building a replica in 1/25 scale of it ??? Like my original post said, not my thing never will be and would rather not build a model than duplicate something like that. But to destroy a rare 63 DeVille convertible by lowering it, painting it some insipid purple color and put flames on it to me is destroying history. Little did the builder know that in pristine condition the model is worth a small fortune, of if he or she did, probably didn't care. The sad thing was to have to put up with the continuous updates of this model. And on more than one site and in various sections. Custom belongs in custom, racer in racer, not factory stock. And yes some think concept cars are FACTORY STOCK. If they weren't on the showroom, don't belong in a factory stock section. Yes, that does make me wonder, too many fumes from the glue, or inhaled too much overspray from the air brush or paint can ???

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Really? Wonder about what, exactly? And who made you the final arbiter of taste, or what's a waste of space?

The above was intended for you !!!

 

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I build what I like to build because it's what I like to build... I also like looking at a lot of things that I don't like to build.

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I build factory stocks, conversions, Day Twos, restomods, street freaks, customs, drag racers, or whatever else happens to spin my windmill at any given moment. I also like restoring rare old glue bombs back to as close to stock/original as I can. I enjoy seeing what everyone else builds, too. About the only thing I don't like is seeing someone cut up a rare old original (or restorable) to make an ugly custom, dirt tracker, funny car, or other tragic backbirth. But hey, that's just my opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it. B)

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Such a odd rant....are you sure you are even addressing the right forum?   The divisions of models you mention aren't even done here.

You do know that many car dealers sell new and used "customized" vehicles....lots of them!    

Maybe you might try a less stressful hobby?

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can't we all just get along?

this general observation seems rather pointed.

(waiting to see how many pages this thread goes before it's locked due to intolerant posters)

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can't we all just get along?

this general observation seems rather pointed.

(waiting to see how many pages this thread goes before it's locked due to intolerant posters)

I feel the same way. :( 

.................And the countdown to this getting locked started the moment it was posted. :rolleyes:

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Really? Wonder about what, exactly? And who made you the final arbiter of taste, or what's a waste of space?

 

You do realize in your seemingly infinite wisdom that a customized car on trade in is worthless to a dealer don't you ?? Won't pass any state tests other than those that don't bother to properly inspect a motor vehicle, and there are a few of those states yes. But in mine everything from tires to wiper blades is inspected and if it is questionable, the big red sticker goes on the windshield. You can't legally drive them in most states, and what thrill can anyone possibly get from raising a pickup 7 feet off the ground, installing tires meant for a Humvee, and installing exhausts from a freightliner,  let alone building a replica in 1/25 scale of it ??? Like my original post said, not my thing never will be and would rather not build a model than duplicate something like that. But to destroy a rare 63 DeVille convertible by lowering it, painting it some insipid purple color and put flames on it to me is destroying history. Little did the builder know that in pristine condition the model is worth a small fortune, of if he or she did, probably didn't care. The sad thing was to have to put up with the continuous updates of this model. And on more than one site and in various sections. Custom belongs in custom, racer in racer, not factory stock. And yes some think concept cars are FACTORY STOCK. If they weren't on the showroom, don't belong in a factory stock section. Yes, that does make me wonder, too many fumes from the glue, or inhaled too much overspray from the air brush or paint can ???

normally i dont get involved or respond to useless threads like this, but since you have specifically centered out "7 foot high pickups"  (why you should even care is beyond me) here's my 2 cents. i DO daily drive a 9 foot tall truck, and up here we have some of the most stringent motor vehicle rules you ever saw. my truck went thru a V.I. that even a stocker would have a hard time passing (brakes, susp, steering, you know, stuff a little more important than wiper blades...) i CAN legally drive it anywhere, and i guarentee it is stronger and way more safer than your "stock only" boring-ness. besides being able to take it places you can only dream about, every single day i take it out, i have people constantly talking about it to me, and you would not belive how many people take pictures or videos of it, everybody ALWAYS wants to take it for a spin, this something that you will prob never experiance driving your stock  whipper-snipper. 

as mentioned, you BORING world is a place i would'nt ever want to visit,  you need to take a valium and just mellow out. vehicles are an extension of people. 

remind me to never fly on 185 heavy, i'm high enough off the ground in my 1985 K30 heavy...
 

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can't we all just get along?

this general observation seems rather pointed.

(waiting to see how many pages this thread goes before it's locked due to intolerant posters)

I have been watching from post #1. I will caution everyone to be mindful of what you post. Don't get pulled into this.

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Wow! A model car troll. Rare but not unheard-of.

OK I'll play:

One could argue that any hobby is a waste of time, resources and space. Hobbies take productive work-time away from the economy and often produce nothing of economic value. Most times, the resultant products of "hobby" are of value only to the person producing them. I can see why some folks would be upset by the selfish act of "hobby".  

Just the unmitigated arrogance that would cause a person to throw away time and resources to create something that only he or she can enjoy is appalling. There should be a governing agency in charge of the proper application and use of hobby resources. We need Hobby Police!

A catalog of acceptable hobby projects would be compiled and made available to hobby participants. Any hobby projects not listed in this catalog would be submitted as hobby proposals to the Hobby Police Board for review and prior approval. This would greatly reduce the emotional duress inflicted upon other hobby participants and the public in general of having to tolerate the time and space wasted by unsightly, boring, pointless and just plain "stupid" hobbies.

Yeah, right! :D

Honestly I prefer building classic and vintage American cars. I don't think I ever built any with "a million flames flying off them" even when I was 13 or 14, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't. I've built car models that were factory stock, mild custom, hot rod, rust-bucket, rat rod, science fiction-fantasy and even a low rider. In my stash I have a couple of Army Jeeps, a Revell Peterbilt Model 359, a Chrysler Turbine Car, two 1964 Dodge 330 Ramchargers, an AMT Thunderbolt 1 Monster Truck, a Nautilus Submarine by Pegasus, an MPC Alien and much, much more. 

I don't like to limit myself to building only one thing in only one way. I understand that some people need that security of sameness, but I need to challenge myself. To me, model building is a relaxing hobby that allows me to improve myself on a personal level by challenging my skill-set and perceptions of the world. 

I feel a little sad that someone can seem to be so bitter over something that's supposed to be a fun and entertaining form of personal self expression but I guess that would be just another form of self expression. :(

Any way, I hope that this answers the question and if it doesn't, then the answer must lie somewhere within and not without.

David G.

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albumpage1.thumb.jpg.75e98c3c455b9c282fa

I saw this thread when it first started.  I typed a few words of a reply then thought it would be better just to observe.   It reminds me of my stamp club. Above is a page from my USA stamp collection.  It has a single stamp, the plate number block, and a first day cover for each issue on the same page. I think it displays nicely.  There is an old guy in my club who is absolutely distressed that I do this.  He approaches me with, "Now Tom, this just isn't the right way to collect. You need to put the single stamps in a single stamp album, the block in a block album and the cover in a cover album."  He is visibly upset that I'm upsetting his universe!  So of course I bring fresh pages to every meeting and pass them around!  The others seem to get a chuckle out of it.

In my book, this is a hobby and I'll do what pleases me.  Just like model builders will build what pleases them.  If others get it, great.  If not, so what?
 

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albumpage1.thumb.jpg.75e98c3c455b9c282fa

I saw this thread when it first started.  I typed a few words of a reply then thought it would be better just to observe.   It reminds me of my stamp club. Above is a page from my USA stamp collection.  It has a single stamp, the plate number block, and a first day cover for each issue on the same page. I think it displays nicely.  There is an old guy in my club who is absolutely distressed that I do this.  He approaches me with, "Now Tom, this just isn't the right way to collect. You need to put the single stamps in a single stamp album, the block in a block album and the cover in a cover album."  He is visibly upset that I'm upsetting his universe!  So of course I bring fresh pages to every meeting and pass them around!  The others seem to get a chuckle out of it.

In my book, this is a hobby and I'll do what pleases me.  Just like model builders will build what pleases them.  If others get it, great.  If not, so what?
 

Your last paragraph hit the nail on the head, exactly.

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I'm not 13 or 14 either.

I think MOST people who build custom or hot-rod models are people who would do so in real life, but possibly don't have the space, time, money or skill...so they enjoy the creative aspect of the car hobby building models of things they would do in full scale under different circumstances.

 

neither am i (13 or 14)  wish i was again...:D  American 185, would that make my non-stock builds ok then in your eyes?

you nailed it Bill, the space, time and money thing, much cheaper to build in scale. but watch out world, once my son grads, i'm unleashing a spat of custom, lifted trucks for the road!!...

Your last paragraph hit the nail on the head, exactly.

X2 

could'nt care less, if it makes me happy.....

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I have been watching from post #1. I will caution everyone to be mindful of what you post. Don't get pulled into this.

Amazing, that one can't post an observation or opinion without all the 'custom and hotrod police' going ballistic and getting their jeans all twisted !! Everyone builds what they like and enjoys. I personally do nothing but factory stock. Last year I acquired a complete JoHan Olds Cutlass collection at an estate sale for a true bargain price. A lot of 442's and a couple of Hursts were in the collection but no more. Each is happily now a model year correct Cutlass Supreme or just regular Cutlass, and a few needed refinishing and are now gracing my collection in true factory Oldsmobile colors. Also had to send out some chrome for replating, but well worth it, as any Oldsmobile dealer or true Oldsmobile fan would now be proud. And no, not vein enough to post pictures, they are for my and my friends enjoyment and no one else's. Did the same with a few glue bomb Ford Cobra's and a few Torino models I acquired over the past several years. All are now happily a Fairlane 500, Torino, or a Gran Torino Brougham. To each his own....as I said before

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Funny I must have been following a different post. Haven't seen any ballistic posts from the custom car and hot rod guys I have seen numerous posts saying that variety is the spice of life and people enjoying building what they like. 

Well need to get back to chopping that rare Cadillac kit and posting every slice and dice in excruciating detail.

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<snip> they are for my and my friends enjoyment and no one else's. 

 In my opinion,  you just answered your own question.  The people that build things you do not like,  are doing it for their own enjoyment and personal satisfaction. Very simple to understand.  There are many automotive styles that I could care less about, or flat out find ugly in 1/1 scale , so I may not understand them, but the fact I don't not understand is completely irrelevant. They did not build it for me.  

having said that,  I do watch and follow builds of subjects that are not my primary taste,  and often  there is still a tip or trick, or ideas that can be gained.  

Mostly though,  I like to see people happy. If a Donk brings joy to someone,  I can see that joy,  and I am happy for them. 

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