New Model company Announced!

[Eshaver]

Hey kids, just got off work and between the cereal box drivers and the heat, 103 degrees, I got to thinking........... Now for me thats sometimes dangerous as I'm not paying full attention to my driving, why I could hit some one. What would happen if we all sent in two dollars to an escrow account and formed a licenced limmited corperation The company we the people formed would go over to A M T first then Revell and possibly Linberg. Then we go through every too and die in their warehouses and inject plastic into any thing and everything that will take molten plastic. Look , a former illistrator for A M T told me to my face two years ago that no one at A M T has a clue as to what is in some of the tools they have. I was also told that employees were throwing out dies when Lesney/Matchbox had A M T in the late 1980's. With that said, I beleive most of his story has a degree of credibility.Sure Dave Model King has spent a lot of his own money to restore missing tools, but thats my point. If he is willing to invest his future in this hobby why aren't we? You can't tell me we couldn' t elect a board of directors sell stock amongst ourselves and quite possibly manufacture the product here in the U S < the greatest country on the face of the planet. The big box stores wouldn't touch us because realistically the prices of a limited run kit would be too high.How ever , Real hobby shops would take a chance on us right? In fact I see them as investors! Ed Shaver

[Darrell Gwinn]

I like this idea and think it would be a good investment, but the trouble is getting enough people to think so to actually get it to work.

[MikeMc]

Only 2 bucks........GOOD DEAL!!

[gregbbear]

Good Idea! I'd gladly throw in a fiver if it included Revell Germany too! Ten if we could peruse the long lost foreigners too! Salivating already, Wave, Heller, Italieri, etc. Contract a good artist company like Umi to re-do the decals, cartograph to print, and maybe even some photo-etch! Cooperate with a paint business like Scale Finishes, so that decal matching paint is available. Please pinch me, I'm dreaming!

If somebody way smarter than me can get this off the ground, I will gladly invest. And purchase the final product too!

Later,

Greg

[Daniel Peterson]

It's not a matter of investing two bucks, or getting people convinced of it's feasibility, it's the fact that all we have here is a half baked, barely thought out "pipe dream", that when confronted with the cold hard reality of the current state of hobbies overall, sinks faster than the Titanic after hitting that iceberg.

Mark, you saved me a lot of extra work. Very early this morning I typed pretty much the same thing, citing many of the challenges ahead of such a proposition you did, then when I went to post it I got an error and lost the whole thing. I had taken it a step further, to the insane cost of marketing all of this. Anybody here buy trade show space, product cartoning, magazine ad space or pay for a top notch web presence recently? That stuff ads up quicker than an argument for not buying a used parachute!

It's a great dream, but not at all a realistic concept. Still, I'll drift off tonight with visions of factory fresh, $10 Lug Bug kits stacked by the dozens in each WalMart across America...

[Darrell Gwinn]

Oh now Mark, come on... lol I hate your dosages of reality. You have a good point, but I cant really agree that it couldnt happen, I just dont think it will happen. A person, or more like a group of people could do this if thats what they were focused on and had enough funds and the right game plan. In todays world it seems everyone has a price so it could be possible with A LOT of work.

[Guest zebm1]

No, Mark is correct, we used to injection mold snap-tie cones for snap-ties that hold up the wood walls before you pour the concrete. because molds come in two or more pieces, and they are not marked at all..... then there is this, the molding pieces/dies are often put in what we called steel mold boxes. Repeated runs of hot to cold to hot to cold would heat swage the molding dies into the molding boxes.....numbers between the box and the back of the die....meaning something has to be destroyed to get the molding die out of the box.....

[Eshaver]

Daniel and Bluesman, believe it or not I have owned my own company. I owned a manufacturing business in Houston where I made custom van accessories . I also had a taxi cab I kept that I kept leased out to a friend Also I did Fiberglass molds for a couple of different companies. With the gasoline shortage in 1979, I was forced to sell off my assets I moved to Dallas where I did some sub contracting for one of the wrecker manufacturers and managed a small towing towing company that towed "junk and abandoned automobiles" Today I'm a contract driver for a couple of haulers where I deliver goods and services Ocasionaly, I also sub contract musem work as they will have me make models for them. Still I warned you that me thinking was dangerous and thanks for your historical and realistic input gentlemen. Ed Shaver

[m408]

Hey kids, just got off work and between the cereal box drivers and the heat, 103 degrees, I got to thinking........... Now for me thats sometimes dangerous as I'm not paying full attention to my driving, why I could hit some one. What would happen if we all sent in two dollars to an escrow account and formed a licenced limmited corperation The company we the people formed would go over to A M T first then Revell and possibly Linberg. Then we go through every too and die in their warehouses and inject plastic into any thing and everything that will take molten plastic. Look , a former illistrator for A M T told me to my face two years ago that no one at A M T has a clue as to what is in some of the tools they have. I was also told that employees were throwing out dies when Lesney/Matchbox had A M T in the late 1980's. With that said, I beleive most of his story has a degree of credibility.Sure Dave Model King has spent a lot of his own money to restore missing tools, but thats my point. If he is willing to invest his future in this hobby why aren't we? You can't tell me we couldn' t elect a board of directors sell stock amongst ourselves and quite possibly manufacture the product here in the U S < the greatest country on the face of the planet. The big box stores wouldn't touch us because realistically the prices of a limited run kit would be too high.How ever , Real hobby shops would take a chance on us right? In fact I see them as investors! Ed Shaver

Nice thought, but, assuming that the membership here doubled to about 6000, and we all sent in our $2.00, we would still only have $12,000.00. Hardly enough to start a company.

[rickr442]

Pretty to think so, but...

Your $2 each (x6000) would need to be $20,000 each (x 6000) to even get it off the drawing board, unless you could get a few hundred people to do factory work for pennies an hour... WAIT!! That's why there's a CHINA!!!

and now that China's population is discovering cool stuff like 'new Buicks' and 'refrigerators' and 'polo shirts' and 'shoes', even that country's cheap labor is in doubt in the future!

Edited July 4, 2008 by rickr442

[Phil Patterson]

Scary to read, after hearing this plus the stories of how the JoHan tooling got systematically trashed, it's amazing we have any old tools at all. You'd think they'd take better care of those assets, that's the true identity of the company.

I'm still wondering if Rev/Mon will ever get their act together on the 62 Chrysler tooling, though I expect that's another nightmarish tale, truth be known.

[abedooley]

Reading this makes me sad..... How in the hell can these big companies just "LOSE" or destroy these precious molds????!!!! Its just heartbreaking to know that a company would be STUPID enough to do something like that. If this could work I'd send $20.... And if it was REALLY gonna take off I'd send a couple hundred bucks just to know that we could enjoy more awesome kits!! I'm sure I'm not the only one who would do the same.... I mean, whats a couple hundred bucks when you could have possibly twice the kits and not to mention all the old kits that were SO AWESOME!!!!! It could be done!! NEVER SAY NEVER!!!! Dream bashers SUCK!!!!!

[Biscuitbuilder]

Daniel and Bluesman, believe it or not I have owned my own company. I owned a manufacturing business in Houston where I made custom van accessories . I also had a taxi cab I kept that I kept leased out to a friend Also I did Fiberglass molds for a couple of different companies. With the gasoline shortage in 1979, I was forced to sell off my assets I moved to Dallas where I did some sub contracting for one of the wrecker manufacturers and managed a small towing towing company that towed "junk and abandoned automobiles" Today I'm a contract driver for a couple of haulers where I deliver goods and services Ocasionaly, I also sub contract musem work as they will have me make models for them. Still I warned you that me thinking was dangerous and thanks for your historical and realistic input gentlemen. Ed Shaver

Ed,

Not to fault your thinking, nor your experience, but knowing what little I do about the model kit biz, it's not for amateurs, never was frankly. For starters, trying to raise the capital in the manner in which you suggest without the proper clearances from State and Federal agencies could be a major problem, not one I'd think you would want to get into. Second, to start up something like this easily soaks up money in the seven-figure category, just to open the doors.

Injection molding model car kits and making fiberglas accessories for real vehicles are so much different as to be almost diametrically opposed--there is no comparison whatsoever.

Now, as for Lesney-AMT Corporation employees arbitrarily discarding tooling at that location in Baltimore, not entirely true--I was pretty close to the scene during the Lesney years (worked with them, freelance, doing most of their box art models, was in and out of their Warren, MI product development facility almost monthly for those approximately 2.5 years. Some tooling likely was considered obsolete to the point of never being viable anymore, but that was in 1979-81, perhaps the darkest period of all in the model car kit industry. The 1980's "revival" of our hobby had yet to happen, doubt that anyone had any more than a very cloudy crystal ball with which to peer into the future then.

Also, I'd be pretty sure that you wouldn't be able to pry any old tooling out of anyone's hands right now--such tooling as exists (that would make any sense to try and reissue) is either owned outright by someone moving forward with it, or is tied up under leasing arrangements (think Auto World here), so you would most likely have to be thinking of cutting new steel--and that ain't cheap, nor is it any guarrantee of success.

Biscuitbuilder

[Biscuitbuilder]

Scary to read, after hearing this plus the stories of how the JoHan tooling got systematically trashed, it's amazing we have any old tools at all. You'd think they'd take better care of those assets, that's the true identity of the company.

I'm still wondering if Rev/Mon will ever get their act together on the 62 Chrysler tooling, though I expect that's another nightmarish tale, truth be known.

Frankly, Phil---

I doubt seriously that anyone in the industry, years ago, could have predicted that someday, sometime, at least some of those old tools could have a new life. That seems to be the way of it, sometimes. For example, in the 1:1 world, when Ford Motor Company was casting around for ideas/themes for a sporty car in the early 60's, none other than the Budd Company stepped forward, acknowledging that they still had the tooling from which they stamped out the body shells for the last of the 2-seat Thunderbirds, just in case Ford might be interested (this was 5-6 yrs after production of that car and its concept had ceased). Of course, no-go, as the marketplace (as correctly figured by Ford) was into 4-place cars, not two seaters anymore--Baby Boomers were just starting to hit the new car market, and a fair percentage of them already had at least one child, and another one "in the oven".

Also, particularly with that Revell '62 Chrysler Newport Convertible--I wonder just how well received that kit would be today? I've got a restorable built of the kit, and it's, to be complimentary, is pretty plain and basic--and the real car doesn't turn many heads going down the street, or for that matter, at car shows, certainly not at the major collector car auctions. The same is true, I think, with most of the subjects JoHan produced. Pretty body shells, with very shallow interior tubs (although gorgeous dashboards and steering wheels), most with rudimentary engines (the ones that came with open hoods), and up through say, 1963 or so, rather crudely done chassis. Does anyone remember the Whoo-Ha! over JoHan's '59 Rambler Cross Country Stawag? Us old guys fell head over heels for it, but among the younger, more tech-savvy members of our community, the cries of derision were a chorus not to be shut out, even with good earplugs.

All this means that the expectations of the marketplace have been raised almost exponentially by Revell, Tamiya, Hasegawa, and the later, magnificent AMT/Ertl offerings. Frankly, the marketplace won't be very forgiving toward 1960 model kit design parameters in the 21st Century--any more than Ford could sell a newly reproduced Model T or Model A--the real world just doesn't seem to work quite that way.

Would that it were otherwise, but unfortunately I don't see it any other way with a lot of those old tools.

Now, if only somebody, somewhere, could see their way to do a really nice '34 Ford Woodie Station Wagon??????

Biscuitbuilder

[bob paeth]

I must agree with all of the negative thoughts on the subject of bringing back all of the old kits. What I find surprising is the nonchalant thoughts of the companies such as AMT and Revell in keeping track of the molds. To duplicate these molds, in todays economy, would be in the neighborhood of $250,000 ( $50,000 ) back in the 1960,s )

bob paeth

[LDO]

... If this could work I'd send $20.... And if it was REALLY gonna take off I'd send a couple hundred bucks...

Accept reality and spend that 200 bucks on a nice resin kit or two. Maybe get several nice resin conversions. If you can't wait for it in styrene or afford it in resin, scratchbuild it.

[Guest Davkin]

Now that's the interesting thing. Model Car builders often spent $60-$200 and up for resin kits yet scream about the high price of styrene kits at less than $20. Military modelers often spend $40-$100 for styrene kits, why can't we? Why do our models have to be so cheap, (which also limits the potential quality.)? Face it fellas, our hobby is not that big anymore. If we want new tooling we've got to pay. Revell isn't selling 100,000+ copies of a single model kit anymore, the cost of the tooling has to be amortized across far fewer purchases, there just aren't enough customers.

David