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Tamiya Volvo 850 questions?

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10 minutes ago, Erik Smith said:

Kind of...It’s like inbetween a full engine and an insert. Has a plate with molded in detail but also a separate lower part with half a transmission...kind of weird 

739CA186-FD3F-40AE-872E-32EE95E9EB7A.jpeg

Yeah, very close to the insert styles that Japanese companies do, half , thanks for the photo Eric

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Of course the 850 had 5 cylinder engine and a  front wheel drive set up....

totally different from the previous Volvos.

Edited by mike 51

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As a fan of Volvos it is sad there have been so few kitted.  The 850 kit I have has a busted a-pillar so was pondering a custom build.  The 760 engine bay does make you scratch your head and wonder why they would go that close to molding a driveline and then stop.  It would be interesting to see what the resin or 3D print aftermarket could do with that - I recall seeing a full engine bay for the Belkits Escort not long ago.  Now if they would just do one for the Hase BMW 2002......

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Just an FYI, Tamiya also did the sedan version of this car.  

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6 hours ago, Erik Smith said:

Kind of...It’s like inbetween a full engine and an insert. Has a plate with molded in detail but also a separate lower part with half a transmission...kind of weird 

739CA186-FD3F-40AE-872E-32EE95E9EB7A.jpeg

It is not a very good representation of the Volvo red block, but this could be used in the 240 kit if somebody wanted to open the hood.

The distributor blob at the back of the block would have to be moved, but otherwise the 200 and 700 series were more or less the same under the hood. It is hard to tell for sure but at least it looks like they at least have the engine slant like it should. Oilpan needs some work, they got the sump sort of right, but the rest is fiction. These engines have a very rounded oil pan, don't know why they keep making it so flat and square.  

On second thought scratch building the engine bay might be a better option, this is really bad. It looks like they let a guy look under the hood for 2 minutes and then made him design the part. It has a couple of key details sort of right, but it is mostly a generic inline engine. If they only gave the guy 5 minutes it might have been more useful.

 

The rest of the kit doesn't look too bad, I'd pick up a couple if they were re-issued. I'd grab the 850 too, not many racing wagons out there.

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My plan is to try using the top and bottom halfs and cut out the plastic "coverup" parts.

Notice that it is a 4 cylinder, not a 6 as it should have been in a 760. A 760 could also be had with a 4 cylinder and turbo but there is no Turbo in that kit engine. My theory is that the 760 Italeri kitted is an Italian version with a normal B21 or B23 4 cylinder in it. If I don't remeber to incorrectly, Italy had some taxrules that ment that Ferrari made a 2 litre version of the 308 called 208 and I also think that Volvo made a version of the 760 for Italy with the 4 cylinder in it.
So, the 760 is actually a 740:)

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On 2/25/2018 at 3:37 AM, Atmobil said:

My plan is to try using the top and bottom halfs and cut out the plastic "coverup" parts.

Notice that it is a 4 cylinder, not a 6 as it should have been in a 760. A 760 could also be had with a 4 cylinder and turbo but there is no Turbo in that kit engine. My theory is that the 760 Italeri kitted is an Italian version with a normal B21 or B23 4 cylinder in it. If I don't remeber to incorrectly, Italy had some taxrules that ment that Ferrari made a 2 litre version of the 308 called 208 and I also think that Volvo made a version of the 760 for Italy with the 4 cylinder in it.
So, the 760 is actually a 740:)

 

On practically every other Volvo you are correct that the middle number is the number of cylinders.The 700 / 900 series were weird and didn't follow normal Volvo naming rules, the 760 was just a fancier version of the 740. It was possible to get a 6 cylinder 740 and a 4 cylinder 760. Same with the 940 / 960.

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5 hours ago, Aaronw said:

 

On practically every other Volvo you are correct that the middle number is the number of cylinders.The 700 / 900 series were weird and didn't follow normal Volvo naming rules, the 760 was just a fancier version of the 740. It was possible to get a 6 cylinder 740 and a 4 cylinder 760. Same with the 940 / 960.

Yes, you are correct but from what I read on Wikipedia (can I trurst that anyway?) the 740 could be had with these engines: (sorry but this is halfay Norwegian but I think you can understand most of it anyway)

  • B19E: 2.0 L rekke-4 (83.04-84.07, bare sedan)[16]
  • B19ET: 2.0 L turbo rekke-4 (83.12-84.07, bare sedan)[16]
  • B23E: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection ('84)
  • B23ET: 2.3 L turbo rekke-4, Bosch Motronic engine management ('84)
  • B23FT: 2.3 L turbocharged rekke-4

1985 og framover:

  • B200E: 2.0 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Bosch K-Jetronic 115 hp (86 kW)
  • B200F: 2.0 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Bosch LH-Jetronic 111 hp (83 kW)
  • B200K: 2.0 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Renix ignition, 200K hadde standard topp forhold til 230K (introdusert for 85 årsmodel)
  • B200ET: 2.0 L rekke-4, turbocharged, Bosch Motronic engine management (155 hp or 160 PS, introdusert for 85 årsmodel)[16]
  • B200FT: 2.0 L rekke-4, turbocharged, Bosch LH-Jetronic 156 hp (116 kW)
  • B204E: 2.0 L 16-ventilert, DOHC, rekke-4, natrurlig aspirert (introdusert for 89 årsmodel)
  • B204FT: 2.0 L 16-ventilert, DOHC, rekke-4, turbocharged (introdusert for 89 årsmodel)
  • B204GT: 2.0 L 16-ventilert, DOHC, rekke-4, turbocharged (introdusert for 89 årsmodel)
  • B230A: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, forgasser (1985–86)
  • B230E: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection (introdusert for 85 årsmodel)
  • B230F: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, 114 hp ('85-88 740GLE, '89-90 740GL, '90-92 740)
  • B230K: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Renix ignition, Heron head (introdusert for 85 årsmodel)
  • B230ET: 2.3 L rekke-4, turbocharged, Bosch Motronic (introdusert for 85 årsmodel)
  • B230FT: 2.3 L rekke-4, turbocharged, 160 hp ('85-92 740 Turbo **obs: '90-92 modeler produserte 162 hp**)
  • B234F: 2.3 L 16-ventilert, DOHC, rekke-4, naturally aspirated, 153 hp ('89-90 740 GLE/GLT)

     

And the 760:

  • B23ET (turbo)
  • B28 E/F (PRV-V6)
  • B280 E/F (PRV-V6)
  • B230ET (turbo)
  • B230FT (turbo)
  • B204FT (16v turbo)

 

These are only the petrol/gas engines, both 740 and 760 could also be had with Diesel engines. The Italeri kit has a 4 cylinder non turbo engine. But it is supposed to be a 760 as the 760 was launched in 1982 and the kit has details that only the 82 models had (the 760 badging and the rims that are supposed to mimic the wheels from the Jakob as well as other details)
The 740 was launched in 84 and the kit is dated in 83. But I do think (I know it is just my theory) that it is a "for Italy only" version that Italeri used to make the kit from. Quite possibly that the engine is supposed to be the B19E wich would fit under the 2-litre tax rules of Italy.
Here is a picture of a B19E in a 1982 244:
Volvo-244-0711245521615ea1.jpg
From this link:
https://www.nettivaraosa.com/en/auton-varaosat/2137280

Looking at the above posted picture of the Italeri engine and the one in the 244, they do look similar in my eyes.

EDIT: Found the English language version of the Wikipedia article here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_700_Series

Edited by Atmobil

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6 hours ago, Aaronw said:

 

On practically every other Volvo you are correct that the middle number is the number of cylinders.The 700 / 900 series were weird and didn't follow normal Volvo naming rules, the 760 was just a fancier version of the 740. It was possible to get a 6 cylinder 740 and a 4 cylinder 760. Same with the 940 / 960.

Also remember the 780 did not have an 8-cylinder engine.  Turbo 4 or PRV V6.

 

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8 hours ago, Atmobil said:

Yes, you are correct but from what I read on Wikipedia (can I trurst that anyway?) the 740 could be had with these engines: (sorry but this is halfay Norwegian but I think you can understand most of it anyway)

  • B19E: 2.0 L rekke-4 (83.04-84.07, bare sedan)[16]
  • B19ET: 2.0 L turbo rekke-4 (83.12-84.07, bare sedan)[16]
  • B23E: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection ('84)
  • B23ET: 2.3 L turbo rekke-4, Bosch Motronic engine management ('84)
  • B23FT: 2.3 L turbocharged rekke-4

1985 og framover:

  • B200E: 2.0 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Bosch K-Jetronic 115 hp (86 kW)
  • B200F: 2.0 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Bosch LH-Jetronic 111 hp (83 kW)
  • B200K: 2.0 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Renix ignition, 200K hadde standard topp forhold til 230K (introdusert for 85 årsmodel)
  • B200ET: 2.0 L rekke-4, turbocharged, Bosch Motronic engine management (155 hp or 160 PS, introdusert for 85 årsmodel)[16]
  • B200FT: 2.0 L rekke-4, turbocharged, Bosch LH-Jetronic 156 hp (116 kW)
  • B204E: 2.0 L 16-ventilert, DOHC, rekke-4, natrurlig aspirert (introdusert for 89 årsmodel)
  • B204FT: 2.0 L 16-ventilert, DOHC, rekke-4, turbocharged (introdusert for 89 årsmodel)
  • B204GT: 2.0 L 16-ventilert, DOHC, rekke-4, turbocharged (introdusert for 89 årsmodel)
  • B230A: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, forgasser (1985–86)
  • B230E: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection (introdusert for 85 årsmodel)
  • B230F: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, 114 hp ('85-88 740GLE, '89-90 740GL, '90-92 740)
  • B230K: 2.3 L rekke-4, naturlig aspirert, Renix ignition, Heron head (introdusert for 85 årsmodel)
  • B230ET: 2.3 L rekke-4, turbocharged, Bosch Motronic (introdusert for 85 årsmodel)
  • B230FT: 2.3 L rekke-4, turbocharged, 160 hp ('85-92 740 Turbo **obs: '90-92 modeler produserte 162 hp**)
  • B234F: 2.3 L 16-ventilert, DOHC, rekke-4, naturally aspirated, 153 hp ('89-90 740 GLE/GLT)

     

And the 760:

  • B23ET (turbo)
  • B28 E/F (PRV-V6)
  • B280 E/F (PRV-V6)
  • B230ET (turbo)
  • B230FT (turbo)
  • B204FT (16v turbo)

 

These are only the petrol/gas engines, both 740 and 760 could also be had with Diesel engines. The Italeri kit has a 4 cylinder non turbo engine. But it is supposed to be a 760 as the 760 was launched in 1982 and the kit has details that only the 82 models had (the 760 badging and the rims that are supposed to mimic the wheels from the Jakob as well as other details)
The 740 was launched in 84 and the kit is dated in 83. But I do think (I know it is just my theory) that it is a "for Italy only" version that Italeri used to make the kit from. Quite possibly that the engine is supposed to be the B19E wich would fit under the 2-litre tax rules of Italy.
Here is a picture of a B19E in a 1982 244:
Volvo-244-0711245521615ea1.jpg
From this link:
https://www.nettivaraosa.com/en/auton-varaosat/2137280

Looking at the above posted picture of the Italeri engine and the one in the 244, they do look similar in my eyes.

EDIT: Found the English language version of the Wikipedia article here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_700_Series

 

At least in the US the 740 was available with 6 cyl diesel engines that are not listed above.

 

The engine in the 760 kit catches a few key features which is enough to suggest it is a Volvo redblock. That is about all I can say positive about it. It certainly provides something to work from and improve in the 760 kit. I'm just not sure the work involved improving the engine and fitting it to the new Beemax 240 kit would be worth the effort.

 

I have an '85 240 with a B230F in the driveway and have done all of the work myself so I'm fairly familiar with the 4 cylinder engines. Granted there may be some differences based on the exact year, model and market. There are a couple of things they got kind of right and a long list of things that are very wrong beyond simplified detail.

 

Like I said, it looks like they let the guy take a peak under the hood and then he had to design it from memory. He got the 3 or 4 things that jumped out at him and the rest is generic inline 4 cylinder engine.

 

 

 

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On 27.2.2018 at 7:32 AM, Aaronw said:

 

At least in the US the 740 was available with 6 cyl diesel engines that are not listed above.

 

The engine in the 760 kit catches a few key features which is enough to suggest it is a Volvo redblock. That is about all I can say positive about it. It certainly provides something to work from and improve in the 760 kit. I'm just not sure the work involved improving the engine and fitting it to the new Beemax 240 kit would be worth the effort.

 

I have an '85 240 with a B230F in the driveway and have done all of the work myself so I'm fairly familiar with the 4 cylinder engines. Granted there may be some differences based on the exact year, model and market. There are a couple of things they got kind of right and a long list of things that are very wrong beyond simplified detail.

 

Like I said, it looks like they let the guy take a peak under the hood and then he had to design it from memory. He got the 3 or 4 things that jumped out at him and the rest is generic inline 4 cylinder engine.

 

 

 

Then you are a lot more qualified as an expert than I am. I have never owned a full scale Volvo of my own but have a lot of friends that have several of them. Maybe someone will offer a resin conversion kit with an engine for the Beemax 240. As for the 760, my plan is to build it as a typical Norwegian rural 18 year old's car. A 740 with aftermarket wheels, lowered by anglegrindig of a couple of turns on the springs and in that typical state of "soon to be at the scrapyard" look with rusty wheelarches, dents and bodyparts almost coming off.
I got a similar plan for the 240 and maybe even the 850. But I'm also tempted to build the 850 as a new family car on a trip with the Thule roofbox and a bicycle on the back or maybe even towing a caravan (wich I guess I have to scratchbuild). Time will tell I guess, with some 600 unbuilt kits and about 20 started procjects and only 1 finished model in the last two years I don't think that I will do any of these Volvos in the near future.

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Yeah, I'm probably being harder on it because I look at the thing all the time and I can't help but see all the issues.

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Slightly off-topic maybe, but I happened across one in the wild a few days ago:

242 Volvo 850

243 Volvo 850

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I don't recall Volvo offering that graphics package.:)

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