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Do you want to participate in a positive way by giving Round-2 some useful re- and modified release ideas?


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Hi,

I and I'm sure many of you, I look forward every month to the new announcements made by Round-2, hoping for that one special kit, which was thought long gone (*), or a modified release (**) of a kit done, around the turn of the century, when the amt brand was owned by Ertl, like for example:

  • '68 ford Galaxie, an end of the line old annual *
  • '67-68 Ford Mustang Coupe, from the '67 Mustang GT Fastback/Shelby tool **

Anyway if you wish to write off some of that frustration, but in a positive way then look at what one of my friends and I wrote down almost 15 years ago, and after that I'm sure you can put your thinking cap and apply that same recipe to a Round-2 tool you'd wish to alter or add a sibling to.

I'm sure there are a few Model Cars participants who have an open line with John Greczula, and will pass the info.

 

Thanks

Luc Janssens

 

1969 Ford Mustang Boss 302, by John K. Dezan and Luc Janssens

1) What subject do you want to kit based on what tool
and why?

A 1969 Mustang Boss 302 based on the Revell 1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1 428CJ.
The basic 428CJ is nicely done kit that has never received its dues, and
maybe it has something to do with its marquee. There are lots of things
a motivated and skilled modeler can do with this kit. So why shouldn't
the model company tap into those ideas? With a few modified pieces and a
few new ones, they can. This kit would also open the door to a possible
set of vintage T/A race cars with a Mark Donahue '69 Camaro (also based
on existing tooling) being a very visible and viable follow on if this
series of kits succeeds.

2) Which parts remain the same between the original
tool and the modified tool?

Front and rear suspension.
Complete interior including, the front seats, dashboard, steering
wheels, etc.,
The basic body shell, rear fascia, sport mirrors, rear wing, window
unit, and other clear parts.

3) What parts of the original tool will have to be
changed or added?

Completely new engine to replicate a 302.
Non-Shaker (flat) hood.
A set of short center cap Magnum 500 wheels.
Front clip and grille needs to be re-done.
The body mold core piece and side inserts need to be re-done, in a way
that both the non as well as the rear fender mounted side scoops Mustang
versions can be done.
On the chassis the power cylinder, which is found only on big block cars 
should be removed and added as a separate part to the mold.

4) Are there still other versions possible from the
original or modified tool?

Yes.
a) The '69 Boss 302 can easily be converted into a '69 Boss 429 with the
change of hoods to a non-Shaker style hood with the opening for the Boss
429 air cleaner, a change of engine from a 302 to a 429 and the addition
of the proper hood scoop. This option would also require a set of long
center cap Magnum 500 wheels and the proper decals.

B) The '69 Boss 302 can also be converted into a '69 Boss 302 T/A racer.
This conversion is more involved than the other as it would require a
new interior tub to replicate a gutted racing interior, a new drivers
seat, a removable rear
seat, a new dashboard with blanks for the HVAC and radio, a proper roll
cage, a fire extinguisher, a new racing style exhaust system, blank out
plates for the headlights, a set of Minilite racing wheels, a set of
racing slicks and the proper vintage racing decals. Most importantly,
the body tool needs new side cavities ($$$$) because of the flared wheel
wells. Alternately, this concept can be scaled back considerably.
Perhaps by releasing a sort of illegal T/A style street racer/canyon
carver type of car, with lots of the hardware of the T/A racing version
(except body) and the choice between the Minilites on racing tires or
more modern style footwear. Let the resin casters do the necessary work
for a correct T/A body and the decals. We can do this as the target
audience for this version is age 35+ and thus very aware of the aftermarket

c) A much better looking Mustang Mach 1 because of the retooled front.

5) Do you wish to add optional parts and will it
benefit both releases?

No although the Boss 429 could be done as optional parts for the
Boss 302 by including the required parts and decals. This would benefit
the 302 release, as any modeler wanting either kit would have to
purchase the same basic kit. A modern 2n1, I guess.

6) How do you want the packaging?

The Boss 302 release should feature a Bright Yellow picture of a 1:1
car with the picture being taken from the front ¾ angle down low to
accentuate the lines of the car. If the Boss 429 is included as an
option, then it should be featured prominently on one of the end caps
like what Revell has done recently with their '68 Pontiac Firebird.
The Boss 302 racer should feature either the George Follmer or Parnelli
Jones car snaking through the esses at Laguna Seca, done either as
artwork or a vintage photo.
The street racer, well half the box art will be smoke hehehe (and the sides
will be filled with the obligatory remarks that we do not endorse racing on
public roads and that seeing tire smoke on the box art can not be used to
sue for "secondary smoke" law suits against our company). Alternately,
maybe something along the lines of the box art on the Acura Integra.

7) Post a photo of your subject

 

'69 Boss 302 in Bright Yellow. This is what I'd want on top of the 
box.

************************************************************************

safe_image.php?d=AQAQMXvVkWEpSYbz&w=450&
 
 

The following is a tool to help you, writing your proposal

*************************************************************************

1) What subject do you wish to kit, based on what tool, and why?

2) Which parts will remain the same, for both kits?
- chassis:
- engine:
- body:
- interior:
- other:

3) What parts of the existing kit will have to be changed or added?
- chassis:
- engine:
- body:
- interior:
- other:

4) Are there still other versions possible from the original or 
modified tool, and if so, what parts have to be changed and wich ones 
can be used for all versions?

a) Alternative version 1:
- Chassis:
- Engine:
- Interior:
- Body:
- Other:

B) Alternative version 2:
- Chassis:
- Engine:
- Interior:
- Body:
- Other:

5) Do you wish to add optional parts, and will they benefit both 
releases?
- Drive-train upgrades:
- Body add on's:
- Interior options:
- Wheels & tires:
- Decals:
- Other:

6) How do you want the packaging?
- Box art:
- Info on the box:
- Box vs. parts layout
- Packaging of the parts.

7) Post a photo of your subject

safe_image.jpg

Edited by Luc Janssens
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1 hour ago, Luc Janssens said:

Hi,

I and I'm sure many of you, I look forward every month to the new announcements made by Round-2, hoping for that one special kit, which was thought long gone (*), or a modified release (**) of a kit done, around the turn of the century, when the amt brand was owned by Ertl, like for example:

  • '68 ford Galaxie, an end of the line old annual *
  • '67-68 Ford Mustang Coupe, from the '67 Mustang GT Fastback/Shelby tool **

Anyway if you wish to write off some of that frustration, but in a positive way then look at what one of my friends and I wrote down almost 15 years ago, and after that I'm sure you can put your thinking cap and apply that same recipe to a Round-2 tool you'd wish to alter or add a sibling to.

I'm sure there are a few Model Cars participants who have an open line with John Greczula, and will pass the info.

 

Thanks

Luc Janssens

 

While there are many id like to see re=issues of its hard to narrow it down to one single kit or type.   I can think of dozens of old kits that would sell well if they were re-issued due to there in high demand by modelers.   There really needs to be a place for others one would like to see out again or made to give a complete enough response in my mind..?...but here is just a small few Id like....

early to mid 70s Dodge vans lets face it the 78 and up years were ugly ones and the earlier body style kits by MPC had great options for building them.

MPC 68 to 70 Pontiac Bonneville HT kits were great...there in high demand as well...Id like to see them re-issued in the original option kits.

MPC 69 to 72 Pontiac Grand Prix as they were originally...no brainer for these to sell very well.

MPC 69 Impala HT

AMT 70s Chevy camper van kit (open road mini motorhome)...a awesome kit with a high demand among builders and collectors.

MPC 68,69 Dodge Coronets...any issues of these would sell very well.

IMCs Dodge drag/phone company truck (Touch tone Terror) with all the original building options...Lindberg has already issued the Little Red Wagon kit so it should not be too hard to get out id think..?

MPC 75 Firebird with a Trans Am version building option...a iconic kit to say the least.

MPC 65,66 Dodge Monaco kits....there always wanted by builders and collectors.

AMT/MPC 67 to 70 Chevy pickups...would not be too far off from the 72 kits.

Ertl International/Massey farm tractor kits...there always in demand.

and many more.   There are also several kits that need to be made by someone that have seemed to be overlooked by the companies in the past like...

camping trailer kits

60s/70s 4door and wagon kits..not many can build every muscle car kit more than 6 times without becoming board with them.

1/25th scale diorama buildings would be a good seller id think..many builders like to have their work displayed with them...Id even be interested in seeing the MRC gas station kits come back out again.

 

 

 

1) What subject do you want to kit based on and why.

MPC 68  to 69 Pontiac Bonnevilles....there in demand and a straight original re-issue  with all the original building options.

2) Which parts remain the same between the original
tool and the modified tool?

all parts would remain the same as the originals were.

3) What parts of the original tool will have to be
changed or added?

Nothing.

4) Are there still other versions possible from the
original or modified tool?

Yes..one could build them in different versions with the original supplied kit parts. 

5) Do you wish to add optional parts and will it
benefit both releases?

yes and no...other building options like a station wagon build option would appeal to many builders though...me included.

6) How do you want the packaging?

Ether in the original art work or a dealership art work.

7) Post a photo of your subject

Sorry no photos to share of them.

 

safe_image.php?d=AQAQMXvVkWEpSYbz&w=450&
 
 

The following is a tool to help you, writing your proposal

*************************************************************************

1) What subject do you wish to kit, based on what tool, and why?

2) Which parts will remain the same, for both kits?
- chassis:
- engine:
- body:
- interior:
- other:

3) What parts of the existing kit will have to be changed or added?
- chassis:
- engine:
- body:
- interior:
- other:

4) Are there still other versions possible from the original or 
modified tool, and if so, what parts have to be changed and wich ones 
can be used for all versions?

a) Alternative version 1:
- Chassis:
- Engine:
- Interior:
- Body:
- Other:

B) Alternative version 2:
- Chassis:
- Engine:
- Interior:
- Body:
- Other:

5) Do you wish to add optional parts, and will they benefit both 
releases?
- Drive-train upgrades:
- Body add on's:
- Interior options:
- Wheels & tires:
- Decals:
- Other:

6) How do you want the packaging?
- Box art:
- Info on the box:
- Box vs. parts layout
- Packaging of the parts.

7) Post a photo of your subject

safe_image.jpg

 

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33 minutes ago, Casey said:

Right subject, wrong company. :D At least it's coming to fruition after 15 years. :)

It is just an example I had on file Casey, no more no less....

Anyway there's more then a lot of knowledge here on this board, let put it to good use, that's all I'm asking cuz there's too much negativity already on the WWW and media today.

Edited by Luc Janssens
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18 minutes ago, disabled modeler said:

 

Pick one, like the '75 Firebird....can one base that on the '71 Camaro Z/28 Baldwin tool? and make an whole series '71-81?....just wondering Poncho guys????

About the Bonneville tool, that one morphed into the 70, so it's just the matter of copying the original kit, to make it happen, investment vs return?...which is the most popular full size Poncho of the '60s?

Edited by Luc Janssens
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My call would be to bring the long bed Dodge Pickup kit back. 

 

The last stock issue was the 2 wheel drive Little Red Express, of course. 

 

If if they could find the tooling insert(s) for the 4x4 parts and wheels, they could first give us the Warlock 4x4. From there, they could use the long bed bed, bench seat interior and chassis last seen in the Monster Truck issue from the mid 80’s. 

 

The last time the 4x4 suspension parts were seen was in the Thunderstruck long bed pickup. 

 

The stock side trim has been wiped from the bed and cab, but to me - no big deal- make lemonade out of lemons- create a nice decal sheet for a stock Macho Wagon, and put it in a retro box, in the style of the Blackbird Firebird Trans Am, the original Warlock and Little Red Express -a phantom box, one that never existed back in the day. While they are at it, keep some of the custom puller parts from the Monster and Thunderstruck issues. 

 

This would take an absolute minimum of investment, assuming that the proper tooling inserts could be found. For the prices nice ones trade for, I think the market would support this.

 

Here’s a short bed, but you get the picture: 

 

 

9DDC48C3-D519-4923-AF6B-8A49FD0DFF6C.jpeg

Edited by CapSat 6
Backwards lemonade!
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I'll have to think about this one, but there are a lot I'd like to see backdated to their original release versions. The Dodge van and truck would be great to see again in their early 70s versions. Both the Chevy and the Dodge vans would be great to see with the window van versions. The Firebird I would like to see in the 74-76 version, preferably as a base model car so I could have my Rockford Files Firebird.

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This is honestly one of the biggest frustrations I find here and elsewhere on the Interwebs.  The "Round2 should magically make this other kit out of this existing tooling".

You guys have to realize and then remember that NOTHING Round2 has on file is in a CAD format that is used today.  So in order to create the "new" kit out of the "old" tooling you're looking at cutting a whole slew of NEW tooling, which in the case of things like the '49 Merc into a '51 (not picking on anyone, but it's the best example) - your reverse engineering a lot of 2017 pieces into a 50+ year old model kit.  It would be easier, borderline cheaper, and less frustrating to create an entirely new tooling at that point.  Remember how well the re-tooled '76 Gremlin grille simply DOESN'T fit the old tooling? Now imagine an entire "new" kit with that kind of fit issue.  I mean AMT/Ertl stuck us with that entire '70 Superbee - P.S. cut off this window to make the old stuff fit the new stuff nonsense - it was apparently too hard and expensive to reverse engineer a simple piece of clear window.

A lot of these "restored tooling" parts that we've been getting are things like wheels - which just need to be the same size as the tire they're going into and the wheel mounting system from the kit.  Or little bits and pieces from custom parts for the tooling inserts.  But nothing quite an undertaking as back-dating a body shell or creating an entirely new "xyz" based on this "abc" base kit.

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On 31-12-2017 at 6:42 AM, niteowl7710 said:

This is honestly one of the biggest frustrations I find here and elsewhere on the Interwebs.  The "Round2 should magically make this other kit out of this existing tooling".

You guys have to realize and then remember that NOTHING Round2 has on file is in a CAD format that is used today.  So in order to create the "new" kit out of the "old" tooling you're looking at cutting a whole slew of NEW tooling, which in the case of things like the '49 Merc into a '51 (not picking on anyone, but it's the best example) - your reverse engineering a lot of 2017 pieces into a 50+ year old model kit.  It would be easier, borderline cheaper, and less frustrating to create an entirely new tooling at that point.  Remember how well the re-tooled '76 Gremlin grille simply DOESN'T fit the old tooling? Now imagine an entire "new" kit with that kind of fit issue.  I mean AMT/Ertl stuck us with that entire '70 Superbee - P.S. cut off this window to make the old stuff fit the new stuff nonsense - it was apparently too hard and expensive to reverse engineer a simple piece of clear window.

A lot of these "restored tooling" parts that we've been getting are things like wheels - which just need to be the same size as the tire they're going into and the wheel mounting system from the kit.  Or little bits and pieces from custom parts for the tooling inserts.  But nothing quite an undertaking as back-dating a body shell or creating an entirely new "xyz" based on this "abc" base kit.

James, I'm taking notice of your comment and as always value your input...but there have been backdating efforts by Round-2, it's just a matter of copying (parts of) an old kit, and it's not something new, I remember from talks with a former model kit engineer that for a certain kit, they couldn't find specific tooling inserts, so they had to reverse engineer those parts.

The funny thing was that some time after the release that missing insert was found.

About creating modified reissues, Revell can do it, the last example was the '66 Suburban, but I agree it's possibly harder to do with tools from the '60s through the '80s,  I'm guessing most likely it has to do something with the molded in features or part breakdown which makes, tooling up from scratch the better option.

In this day and age of computer aided design, thing are a bit easier, especially when a kit is a combination of several smaller tools, in a certain configuration, but still find it awkward that so much R&D is still done with a carpenter ruler.

If I ever win the lottery, I'm going to see a friend in CA, to start up a complete vehicle scanning service, so we can create a library of data, we can (try to) sell to toy and model company's or heck,... even the 1:1 auto restoring biz, to re-create, sheet-metal, trim etc.....hey I can dream can I :D

 

Edited by Luc Janssens
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8 hours ago, CapSat 6 said:

My call would be to bring the long bed Dodge Pickup kit back. 

 

The last stock issue was the 2 wheel drive Little Red Express, of course. 

 

If if they could find the tooling insert(s) for the 4x4 parts and wheels, they could first give us the Warlock 4x4. From there, they could use the long bed bed, bench seat interior and chassis last seen in the Monster Truck issue from the mid 80’s. 

 

The last time the 4x4 suspension parts were seen was in the Thunderstruck long bed pickup. 

 

The stock side trim has been wiped from the bed and cab, but to me - no big deal- make lemonade out of lemons- create a nice decal sheet for a stock Macho Wagon, and put it in a retro box, in the style of the Blackbird Firebird Trans Am, the original Warlock and Little Red Express -a phantom box, one that never existed back in the day. While they are at it, keep some of the custom puller parts from the Monster and Thunderstruck issues. 

 

This would take an absolute minimum of investment, assuming that the proper tooling inserts could be found. For the prices nice ones trade for, I think the market would support this.

 

Here’s a short bed, but you get the picture: 

 

 

9DDC48C3-D519-4923-AF6B-8A49FD0DFF6C.jpeg

They can even scale it down to 1/35, and sell it to the military modelers...heck think the ROI will be much, much larger when they do that, but better to revive the Esci brand then, cus don't think amt had a presence or was taken seriously in the military modeling community ;)

 

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7 hours ago, oldcarfan said:

I'll have to think about this one, but there are a lot I'd like to see backdated to their original release versions. The Dodge van and truck would be great to see again in their early 70s versions. Both the Chevy and the Dodge vans would be great to see with the window van versions. The Firebird I would like to see in the 74-76 version, preferably as a base model car so I could have my Rockford Files Firebird.

I absolutely agree, now only have to find 4998 like-minded modelers ;)

 

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8 hours ago, oldcarfan said:

I'll have to think about this one, but there are a lot I'd like to see backdated to their original release versions. The Dodge van and truck would be great to see again in their early 70s versions. Both the Chevy and the Dodge vans would be great to see with the window van versions. The Firebird I would like to see in the 74-76 version, preferably as a base model car so I could have my Rockford Files Firebird.

Id be very happy to see these as well...all very good choices with a ton of possibility for other building versions or selling versions of these kits.  The 75 Firebird could be a base line one with optional parts to make it a TA and later a Formula...id buy many of them myself...I use to own a 1 to 1   1975 TA...I truly loved that car been after stuff to make a replica of it ever since we had to sell her off after my accident in 1996...like to killed me to loss her.

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- MPC 1973-1975 Duster 

- MPC 1971-1974 Camaro

- MPC 1975-1977  Ventura

- MPC 1978 Chevy Pick Up with the 2-wheel-drive parts restored !! 

- 1978 Ford Econoline 

- MPC 1975-1978 Monza with the newer Pro Stock chassis which is sans moulded-on exhaust 

- MPC 1978 Monaco Police Car without the Dukes of Hazzard livery ; and , put a set of normal-sized tyres and wheels in there

- AMT 1967 Barracuda ( or at least add the Slant Six and Hemi engines to the 1969 kit )

 

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14 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

- MPC 1978 Monaco Police Car without the Dukes of Hazzard livery ; and , put a set of normal-sized tyres and wheels in there

I'm with you on that, in fact I wrote in that idea several times back when Ertl was the parental company...but added that they should make the front clip separate to make it able to crank out the Plymouth version too.

And since Round-2 is good in securing licensing, they could release several police liveries, just as Yodel did, but this time the artwork will match the actual product.

I'm thinking, NYPD, CHP and to a lesser extend Chicago PD (first two are more known of throughout the world)

BTW click on "this link" for some interesting parts.....for the DOH / Goon car kit..... ;)

 

 

Edited by Luc Janssens
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One sibling, which to me, looks like a good idea, is a '67 Ford Fairlane XL500 427, personally besides the pedigree, I like the brightwork over the duller '66 GT/GTA, it would also give Round-2 the opportunity to address the windshield and backlite issue.

Would it take a lot of rework, dunno...are there big Ford enthusiasts here who could address this?

00cbdfb57584cf3309bf5bba91913416.jpg

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If the model companies could do this cheaply and easily, don't you think they would have already done it? If the magic number is 5,000 units to make money, surely they must have an idea of which kits they could manufacture to satisfy our desires, no?

It isn't as simple as one would think. I have no insider information nor do I pretend to know the inner workings of the model car business, but if fixing some tooling and running 5,000 kits down a production line is all it takes (oh, and the money upfront to make this happen!) why haven't they done it already? Dave Burket (Model King) stepped up over the last 10 years and did just that and while I appreciate his hard work for bringing me kits that hadn't been around for some time, I have noticed that he isn't doing as many as he once did. That begs the question- did he get the return on his investment (ROI) that is crucial to justifying a business decision?

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2 hours ago, mikemodeler said:

Dave Burket (Model King) stepped up over the last 10 years and did just that and while I appreciate his hard work for bringing me kits that hadn't been around for some time, I have noticed that he isn't doing as many as he once did. That begs the question- did he get the return on his investment (ROI) that is crucial to justifying a business decision?

I believe once Round 2 got the production rights for the AMT/MPC tooling around 2007, their official policy was to discontinue doing production runs for 3rd parties such as Model King and Stevens International.  The Round 2 guys seem much more "in the know" about how to market their product and the sales potential for the different tools in their inventory, as opposed to RC2 (Racing Champions) which seemed to be literally clueless most of the time.

As the model car hobby shrank, I believe Round 2 also accepted the reality of smaller production runs for pretty much all their kits, which used to be the territory of MK.  Previously, RC2 seemed desperate to stay in Wal-Mart's good graces to keep their "checkerboard" kits on its shelves.

Not sure what Revell's current policy is, but I don't think I've seen an MK release of any Revell/Monogram kit in quite a while, either.  The only MK stuff I believe I've seen the last few years are the Moebius releases.

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26 minutes ago, Robberbaron said:

I believe once Round 2 got the production rights for the AMT/MPC tooling around 2007, their official policy was to discontinue doing production runs for 3rd parties such as Model King and Stevens International.  The Round 2 guys seem much more "in the know" about how to market their product and the sales potential for the different tools in their inventory, as opposed to RC2 (Racing Champions) which seemed to be literally clueless most of the time.

As the model car hobby shrank, I believe Round 2 also accepted the reality of smaller production runs for pretty much all their kits, which used to be the territory of MK.  Previously, RC2 seemed desperate to stay in Wal-Mart's good graces to keep their "checkerboard" kits on its shelves.

Not sure what Revell's current policy is, but I don't think I've seen an MK release of any Revell/Monogram kit in quite a while, either.  The only MK stuff I believe I've seen the last few years are the Moebius releases.

It's my understanding, based on comments made here and elsewhere, that companies like Model King and Stevens International, paid to have molds fixed and kits produced. I get that the new ownership of AMT has a better insight into the business, but other than some new promo style late model cars, they have not invested in new tooling like Moebius and Revell and leave many of us wondering why they don't either develop new kits or do more to repair older kits.

RC2 had a lot more at stake at Wal-Mart besides some plastic model kits and probably asked WM to offer them along with all of the die cast product they produced. RC2 started to fade in popularity as the die cast market did, sealing their fate.

In the end, it comes down to making money as that is what these companies are in business for. If Round2 can be successful without having to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in new tooling, then good for them. At some point though they will run out of customers for the same old kits, regardless of what decals are in the box.

 

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4 hours ago, mikemodeler said:

If the model companies could do this cheaply and easily, don't you think they would have already done it? If the magic number is 5,000 units to make money, surely they must have an idea of which kits they could manufacture to satisfy our desires, no?

Revell tools up new kits, re-tools others, Moebius tools up new kits, Aoshima, Fujimi, Italeri etc...do the same

So it can be done, it's a matter of choices....IMHO the lack of innovation now, in the long run will hurt us consumers, them and competing companies as wel.

 

 

Edited by Luc Janssens
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I've mentioned this particular kit a few times , especially recently :

- 1973 / 1974 Road Runner . It's all there , factory-style decals and all . I've given up on the 1971-1972 Road Runner ever being reissued ; ostensibly , the moulds were destroyed some how .

The 1977-1978 Monaco would be such an easy kit to reissue with normal-sized wheels and tyres : simply pluck the steel wheels and tyres from the Chevy Van kit(s) , and drop 'em in the Monaco !

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