Car Repair Ripoffs 1: Dealerships

[Ace-Garageguy]

Between rampant incompetence and just plain crookedness (called "up-selling" in the industry), this kind of stuff is everywhere, and the major reason I've refused to work for dealerships since the mid 1970s.

AND...in THIS case, even the "good-guy" ex-service rep (around 22 minutes in) demonstrates he has NO CONCEPT OF WHAT A TIMING BELT DOES. It's the ONE service item that NEEDS TO BE DONE ON-TIME as per the owner's manual as catastrophic engine damage (bent valves) can result if it fails, and the car can stop DEAD in traffic...maybe on the interstate in front of a semi. But HE doesn't seem to be aware of this little fact.

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Renegade]

It's  a shame but it does happen way too often. As someone who grew up around cars, my education came from my Dad. I can't remember my Dad ever taking one of our cars to a shop. Of course cars were a lot easier to work on back then. Your best bet is to ask a family member or trusted friend or even get a second opinion when told you need repairs. Several years ago we had a repair shop and wrecker service. The repair shop was never advertised and had no sign out front. It was all word of mouth. We never upsold but would inform the customer if something was noticed that needed attention during the repairs. A lot of people were upset when we closed the shop as we were their go to place for repairs.

[OneTrickPony]

I grew up in the automotive repair industry and I can tell you for a fact that it does not just happen at dealerships. I have seen it all over the years from charging for repairs not done to doing repairs not needed. Charging premium prices for substandard replacement parts was common. Most shops were honest but even the best shop foreman cannot keep track of everything going on in his bays. Playing CYA also happened many times. A tech would break something because he did not know what he was doing or he was trying to take a shortcut to beat the book and the shop would charge the car owner for their misdeed. I could write a book....

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Just now, OneTrickPony said:

I grew up in the automotive repair industry and I can tell you for a fact that it does not just happen at dealerships. I have seen it all over the years from charging for repairs not done to doing repairs not needed. Charging premium prices for substandard replacement parts was common. Most shops were honest but even the best shop foreman cannot keep track of everything going on in his bays. Playing CYA also happened many times. A tech would break something because he did not know what he was doing or he was trying to take a shortcut to beat the book and the shop would charge the car owner for their misdeed. I could write a book....

 

100% correct. I've been in the car biz, almost every aspect of it, for most of 50 years, and I've seen it all too.

The biggest problem now is finding competent people...techs, service writers, and management that knows the difference between hackers and wizards, and who cares enough to hire the best.

[Lovefordgalaxie]

That's why I do all the work on my cars, from oil changes, to engine rebuild. When I was 12 years old I did a course on auto mechanics at SENAI, a institute that is SAE partner for forming mechanics. I didn't want to be a mechanic, but I love cars and wanted to do my own maintenance. 

I even got to a point that I worked on weekends with a friend that had an actual garage, just for the love of the thing. 

When I was 19 I replaced the timing belt on my aunt's '95 Chevrolet Vectra (basically an Opel Vectra). It was the first time i did work on a car that wasn't mine. She saved a GOOD money, as I replaced the belt, and the tensioner bearing just for the cost of the parts. On the Opel engine the timing is easy to set. No special tool needed. Last year I replaced the timing belt on the '01 Focus my mother drives. That one is a pain. Two camshafts, two bearings, and a special tool to make things easier. Got the tool on Amazon, and it paid itself on the first time I used it. On the dealer, or even on a regular shop, she would be charged 900 Reais just in labor, plus the parts (another 250). Doing it myself I got the parts at the Ford dealer, everything original and with six months warranty, and saved about 50 Reais from what the shop wanted for non original parts. The bad side: I took a whole Sunday on the job... Even a engine mount had to be removed. 

After being ripped off a number of times, my cousin Marcelo decided to start bringing me his cars on weekends so we can do the maintenance ourselves. Last thing we did on his car was to replace all four ball joints. he drives a Chevy Blazer with a 4.3 and 2WD. Nice car to work on. 

[jeffdeoranut]

in the 80's a very close friend went towork  as mechanic for a used car lot(after 20+ running local chevy dealer shop) and quit as soon as he was asked to put sawdust in a tranny and to assemble an engine from junkers in the back so car could be sold with "rebuilt" tranny and engine

[ChrisBcritter]

And then there's when they work on your car and manage to burn down both the car and the shop... right, Tom? 

(UPDATE - Tom did get a good settlement on the loss of the van from the shop's insurance.)

Edited February 5, 2018 by ChrisBcritter

[1972coronet]

One of the biggest scams out here in good ol' California used to centre around emissions inspections . I'll avoid getting into that as it teeters dangerously-close to political stuff ...

Avoid 99.99% of tyre stores , more-so the chain stores : rip off artists par excellence !  They -- whom shall remain unnamed -- quote prices by OEM replacement parts ! I've seen it ; quoting what Ford would charge ( I know Ford part numbers' prefixes very intimately ) , while using "aftermarket" parts (e.g. , Chinese garbage) .

Many of these "repair" shop love to return 3-out-of-6 spark plugs ------ can't reach those firewall-side plugs , "technicians" ?  Then there's the 'dartboard diagnosis' return items : " Well , this sensor didn't 'fix' the problem ..."

I've lost count on how many "technicians" are actually "YouTube Mechanics" .

I'd love to take a flamethrower to some of the shops I deal with !

[Erik Smith]

I’m lucky to have a mechanic who doesn’t even charge me sometimes. He does what needs to be done. Nothing more.

I hate that you can’t trust people though. Really buMs me out that there are always people around trying to scam others. I hate, absolutely hate, dealerships and their service centers. 

 

[Eshaver]

I'm someone who has been on both sides of the fence here . I started out working in a simple service station and I worked in a dealership once . I do believe though that Tire stores are the worst offenders currently . As a Woman , it's even worse now because Men seem to think Women will buy any lie spewed . Ha ! This one has had more broken fingernails than I care to remember about .

[restoman]

It's not just in service garages and dealerships... I spent over 30 years in the rust/restoration/paint world and some of the stuff I've seen would make you cringe. Fiberglassed frame rails, silver duct tape rocker panels, pop riveted panels, bondo layers over an inch thick, etc....

I've had the pleasure of repairing garbage like this over and over and over. It never stopped.

[Chuck Most]

47 minutes ago, Erik Smith said:

I’m lucky to have a mechanic who doesn’t even charge me sometimes. He does what needs to be done. Nothing more.

I hate that you can’t trust people though. Really buMs me out that there are always people around trying to scam others. I hate, absolutely hate, dealerships and their service centers. 

 

I have a guy like that I go to whenever there's a job I can't/don't want to do on my vehicles. Back when I worked for Advance Auto Parts I got him out of a few jams with customers and cut him a few good guy deals, and he's the kind of guy who remembers that stuff.  

[mikemodeler]

I have been in the auto parts and repair biz since 1980 (yeah, I started young! LOL) and typically do most of my own repairs unless time or special tools prevent me from tackling it. I have a trusted mechanic who knows not to BS me and he is not the type to do that anyway as he is always busy and makes his fair share the honest way. He loves it when people bring their cars to them and tells him how much they spent with so and so and it still isn't fixed and he points out the obvious to him.

I work for a company that is an OEM supplier (partially owned by Toyota) and our "aftermarket" parts are actually Toyota OEM in an aftermarket box. My job is great as I literally do not have defect issues like most aftermarket companies and when I do get an "alleged defective",  99% of the time I can determine it was something other than a manufacturing defect that caused the problem. That doesn't always sit well with some of my customers, but I remind them we aren't in the business of reimbursing others for their incompetence or lack of following proper repair procedures.

There will always be pressure by upper management at whatever repair facility you take your vehicle to generate more sales dollars. You can educate yourself on your vehicle and don't be afraid to question them or get a second opinion. Your three biggest investments tend to be 1) Yourself; 2) Your house; 3) Your vehicle. If you would seek a second opinion on your health or your house, why wouldn't you do the same on your car? And no, I don't mean asking your brother-in-law who once worked at Jiffy Lube about your car, I mean asking another qualified shop!

 

[Tom Geiger]

Yup, those chain tire stores....   I had that experience at the local Pep Boys.  Pennsylvania requires an annual inspection and they are done by their licensed repair shops. Literally a license to steal.  They get the same fee for inspection whether you pass or fail.  So they make up some repair, and if you decline you have to pay them for that inspection and then try again at another shop.

I had brought one car to Pep Boys for the inspection.  Oh, you need a brake light bulb.  I could've sworn I had checked them but okay. Then they charge you for the bulb and a half hour shop rate.  I was ticked but figured, ok maybe I needed a bulb.

Then we bought our Buick in NJ.  So it needed to be inspected.  The dealer told us it needed windshield wipers upon delivery, this was late on a Saturday and they didn't have the size in stock.  They gave me money for the blades.  I went to Pep Boys and bought new blades.  Two weeks later I took the car back to same store for inspection.  Mechanic comes into the waiting room with a torn wiper blade proclaiming I needed wiper blades to pass inspection.  The surprised look on his face when I produced the receipt... oh, they'll replace those on the warranty!   Snagged!

 

Edited February 7, 2018 by Tom Geiger

[mikemodeler]

9 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

Yup, those chain tire stores....   I had that experience at the local Pep Boys.  Pennsylvania requires an annual inspection and they are done by their licensed repair shops. Literally a license to steal.  They get the same fee for inspection whether you pass or fail.  So they make up some repair, and if you decline you have to pay them for that inspection and then try again at another shop.

I had brought one car to Pep Boys for the inspection.  Oh, you need a brake light bulb.  I could've sworn I had checked them but okay. Then they charge you for the bulb and a half hour shop rate.  I was ticked but figured, ok maybe I needed a bulb.

Then we bought our Buick in NJ.  So it needed to be inspected.  The dealer told us it needed windshield wipers upon delivery, this was late on a Saturday and they didn't have the size in stock.  They gave me money for the blades.  I went to Pep Boys and bought new blades.  Two weeks later I took the car back to same store for inspection.  Mechanic comes into the waiting room with a torn wiper blade proclaiming I needed wiper blades to pass inspection.  The surprised look on his face when I produced the receipt... oh, they'll replace those on the warranty!   Snagged!

 

That whole "burnt out light" and "torn wipers" is one of the most common scams at some of the "Official NC Inspection Stations" here in the Charlotte area. These shops ONLY do inspections and at $30 a vehicle, you KNOW that they aren't making money unless they find SOMETHING needing replacement. Had a neighbor fall victim to one of these places and the "NEW" wipers they put on performed worse than the old torn ones they replaced!

In my 13 years of having vehicles inspected here, I have always gone through the vehicle the morning before I take it in for inspection and make sure everything works as designed. The irony here in NC is that to pass the brake light inspection, only one of the three brake lights has to function, you can drive with burnt out bulbs unless it is a headlight!

[BigTallDad]

On 2/5/2018 at 9:08 PM, Erik Smith said:

I’m lucky to have a mechanic who doesn’t even charge me sometimes. He does what needs to be done. Nothing more.

I hate that you can’t trust people though. Really buMs me out that there are always people around trying to scam others. I hate, absolutely hate, dealerships and their service centers. 

 

I have one of those too...I get my parts at cost and labor is free.

How did I find this ace mechanic? When he was very young, I used to change his diapers.

[randyc]

I had the local Chrysler dealership try to tell me the  trans flush was REQUIRED at 35K miles.  Or my warranty would be voided.  I said show me in the owner's manual where it says that.   And that I was not going to help pay for his machine.  After that, we got along fine.  He knew I was paying attention.  

Same dealership, few years later, different service manager.  I had hit a deer and fixed by Ford collision center because I knew the manager and the painter and knew they would do it right and for the best deal for me.  That was fine.  But I was taking car to CHRYSLER dealership for oil changes because I was on a coupon special - cheaper than I could buy oil & filter.  Took it in 3 times in a row and the SAME TECH told me the radiator was busted and needed replacing because there was some dried pink blowback on the battery case.   Remember I said I hit a deer?    This was from that incident.  The FIRST time I told him if there was a problem the FORD place said they would fix anything left from the incident.  There was nothing wrong.   Then TWO more times they did it.  I told them that they were basaically showing me how crooked they are.  they don;t care - someone else will replace me in line to get screwed over.

Now I have a great mechanic but I still have to keep an eye on him.  The popped me for a brake light bulb at inspection while I left it and went to work and  they got my wife on a repair. a few years back  So I do some of my own maintenance and tell him that the reason I do that is to take some of the work he could have had if he were more fair at times.   He apologizes.  BUT, he is the BEST at diagnosing weird BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH that can occur - sensors, electrical - they have a computer that looks at car in real time with it running.   And they are more than willing to let me watch and explain it to me.  That's the whole deal - you got to have an idea of what it going on or the potiential for a screwing increases exponentially.  

 

[Jon Haigwood]

Having worked for a Car Dealership (Chrysler/Plymouth) in the mid 70's I can say at that time not all dealerships worked that way. As an example we had a customer come in and ask for a rear main seal replacement as it was losing a lot of oil down the back side of the motor. Now this customer was a used car dealer that about a month earlier sold me a car that ended up having a cracked block and it was my lose. At our shop we discovered that the rear main seal was OK but the leakage was from the valve cover gaskets. While it was a good time for Karma to get pay back on the cracked block we replaced the valve cover gaskets and saved the customer money and time in the shop. That being said that is one reason I buy my tires at Discount Tire now instead of Les Schwab   

[Ace-Garageguy]

15 hours ago, mikemodeler said:

...If you would seek a second opinion on your health or your house, why wouldn't you do the same on your car? And no, I don't mean asking your brother-in-law who once worked at Jiffy Lube about your car, I mean asking another qualified shop!

 

2 hours ago, randyc said:

 ...That's the whole deal - you got to have an idea of what it going on or the potential for a screwing increases exponentially.  

Excellent advice.

[Dragline]

I fixed my share of dealer "repairs" in the past. When I got married in 94 my wife wanted a Jeep. We got her a new Wrangler and part of the deal was oil changes for a year or so. So I took it myself to get the oil changed and it went quickly. They pulled it up to the front door running. I jumped in, got to the bottom of the driveway and the oil pressure gauge went berzerk and I smelled oil. Turns out they put 6 cylinders worth of oil into a 4 cylinder.

 

[espo]

Have our '10 Charger serviced at the selling dealer on a regular bases. Cheaper than if I bought my own Oil and Filter and then got ride of the old stuff plus I don't get dirty. The Service Writer told be the Battery checked out weak in there Inspection Report. This was a couple of years ago. The great flat cold state of Kansas is having another record 0 Degree type Winter and no problems yet. I know it's the OEM Battery and it will die someday but for now I'm waiting to see just how long it will last. Same dealer serviced our '09 Wrangler and wanted to replace the Radiator cap $26.00 and the rear Window Wiper for an additional $45.00. Drove up the street to an Auto Parts Store and got a new Cap and Wiper installed didn't even get my hands dirty for $25.00. I know the Dealer has to make a profit but lets be serious.  

[dieseldawg142]

usually stick with old, but wife needed new and reliable when son entered the picture...we bought her a new truck

had our share of mis-fortunes with the dealer when wife's truck was on warranty, blah, blah, blah

I usually buy old and fix myself. wife wants a new vehicle now, trying to talk her into something nice, old, she's agreeable, she wants a '55 nomad (!!) or a new 4runner

I got to hurry up and find a nomad.....

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, espo said:

Have our '10 Charger serviced at the selling dealer on a regular bases. Cheaper than if I bought my own Oil and Filter and then got ride of the old stuff plus I don't get dirty. The Service Writer told be the Battery checked out weak in there Inspection Report. This was a couple of years ago. The great flat cold state of Kansas is having another record 0 Degree type Winter and no problems yet. I know it's the OEM Battery and it will die someday but for now I'm waiting to see just how long it will last. Same dealer serviced our '09 Wrangler and wanted to replace the Radiator cap $26.00 and the rear Window Wiper for an additional $45.00. Drove up the street to an Auto Parts Store and got a new Cap and Wiper installed didn't even get my hands dirty for $25.00. I know the Dealer has to make a profit but lets be serious.  

The cheap oil changes are losing-money propositions for the dealerships, and ONLY act as a way to get potential customers in the door to be up-sold other services.

Frankly, it's kinda tough for an honest dealership to make any money on the mechanical side. There's simply a flaw in the business model that encourages them to cheat.

1 hour ago, Dragline said:

I fixed my share of dealer "repairs" in the past. When I got married in 94 my wife wanted a Jeep. We got her a new Wrangler and part of the deal was oil changes for a year or so. So I took it myself to get the oil changed and it went quickly. They pulled it up to the front door running. I jumped in, got to the bottom of the driveway and the oil pressure gauge went berzerk and I smelled oil. Turns out they put 6 cylinders worth of oil into a 4 cylinder.

 

The first (and best) dealership I ever worked for...as an apprentice...sold new Datsuns, Fiats, and Triumphs. The lube rack guys did a 1500-mile oil change on a brand new 240Z, and then took it to lunch.

When the car came back, the rod bearings were knocking and the idiots professed to know nothing about it.

Turned out they'd been playing grab-ass and neither one had put any oil back IN the car after replacing the drain plug. 

[espo]

In all fairness to the dealer when the Water Pump went out on the Charger I had them replace it. This is a job I have done countless number of times on just about every make of car, at least US cars since that is all that is in my driveway, My hats off to anyone who can change this Water Pump .  

[Ace-Garageguy]

18 minutes ago, dieseldawg142 said:

usually stick with old, but wife needed new and reliable when son entered the picture...we bought her a new truck

had our share of mis-fortunes with the dealer when wife's truck was on warranty, blah, blah, blah

I usually buy old and fix myself. wife wants a new vehicle now, trying to talk her into something nice, old, she's agreeable, she wants a '55 nomad (!!) or a new 4runner

I got to hurry up and find a nomad.....

My last ex was a new-car-only girl. At the time she bought her last new loaded Yotyto, I could have got her a pristine old 911 for the same bucks (she COULD drive a stick, this was well before the prices went nuts, and you could still buy exceptionally clean, well-maintained one-owner cars for reasonable money).

The last time we talked, some years back, the dealer had just bent her over for a $1300 brake job on a car that was only a couple of years old. When I explained to her that the parts were only about $50 and the rest was a hosing, she got furious...at ME. 

Yes sir...get your girl in that Nomad.  

Edited February 7, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy