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    • Dave Ambrose

      Board Status   07/20/2018

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Daytona 500

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12 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

Personally, I think it's time to slow the cars down again so they aren't so loose that little bumps send them around. I'd limit engine size to about 4 liters but allow overhead cams so the engines will rev a little higher and respond quicker. Ideally the cars would top out at about 180 or so and the racing would get better, back to the bumping and grinding of the 70s and 80s.

I really don't think they need to be slowed down myself. slowing them down would hurt the sport..

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I gave up on Nastycar a couple of years ago. They continually mess with the rules to "create drama". Daytona and Taladega are too big. Cut the stupid banking down to about 20 degrees, get rid of about half the ground effects stuff and take the restricter plates off. Then you'll see racing. The only reason they're on the cars is insurance.

Racing is where you prove you are a better driver when you brake later for a turn and make a clean pass and not knock them out of the way. Yes, brake for the turn. I've heard drivers say that their grandmother could drive one of those cars around Daytpna and Dega flat out because it's stuck to the track with so much downforce. Everybody has about the same HP so it's not racing, it's physics. Give me Indycar anytime, especially now that Tony George can't ruin it again.

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RUBBING is not racing if your in a sprint car, or open wheel dirt modified, dirt late model, , you rub there, you will go for the ride of your life...hope the catch fence does its job..

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4 hours ago, Bucky said:

I think they may have listened too much to whiny drivers, whiny owners, and whiny manufacturers. I'd like to see it get back to actual Stock car racing, not a front wheel drive car with an axle in the back!

Hmmmmm........I didn't know they made the Camaro front wheel drive?!?! :o:huh::rolleyes:

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I have been a life long NASCAR fan, but with the changes to the rules and the reformatting of the race it's self I'm quickly loosing interest in the whole "Dog and Pony Show". When they started breaking the race into segments I started to wonder just what NASCR was thinking. Either you're racing for 500 miles or you're having a couple of "Heat Races" which is it ?? The Race Cars themselves have become in unrelatable to me. You have a Ford in a 2door configuration of a model that is sold as a 4door only. The Race Car is rear wheel drive with a V-8 and the street car is a 4 or 6 Cylinder front wheel drive. At least Chevrolet is now using something somewhat closer to what you can buy of the show room but in the past they were using the same formula as Ford. This may tick off some here but just don't get me started on the Toyotas. The original concept of NASCAR was to race STOCK CARS based on what you and I could purchase from a Dealer, but thru the years they have lost their way in my mind. The way it is now its just formula racing and nothing more. I watched the 500 because I always do. The thing that struck me was the new rules allowing the spoilers to be down out of the air stream. This was originally a safety feature giving the cars more down force. This improved the drivers ability to control the race car. Now with little or no down force these cars are a hand full at best. The problems that have always been present with one car around another on the race track has been "taking the air" of the spoiler causing the car to become unstable and often spinning out the front car. This problem happened all day in the 500? and was usually the cause of on track crashes besides the normal aggressive driving. I would like to see NASCAR return to it's routes or some other Sanctioning Body come up with something truly closer to a Stock Car.      

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2 hours ago, webestang said:

I lost interest in NASCAR after Mark Martin retired. 

That was the start of it for me too. I still hate it that Harvick edged him out of a 500 win. Plus Nastycar management docked him 25 points back in the early 90s, just enough to give the cup to ironhead. Didn't want to see Gordon quit but I'm glad he's healthy and happy. Saw him put a midget racer on 2 wheels on the dirt back in the 80s. He won the race. I knew he'd be historic. I sure miss Thursday Night Thunder.

Nastycar = too many gimmicks

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I only watched the last few laps of the Daytona 150/150/200 as I was working at a car show (photos in a few days).

A few things I don't quite understand:

Impala and Camaro? A sports car racing with sedans? Sedans - Nascar; Sports cars - IMSA.

Why the periods? Must be to give the car sponsors more air time or maybe they are trying to copy a good old Canadian hockey game :) 

I thought I heard the announcer (Jeff Gordon) say that a spin and crash was caused by the air pushing the car out of control when the right front fender went by the left 1/4 panel and changed the air flow so much the driver could not handle it? Are the new aerodynamics that bad that you cannot race side by side? 

A new 'common' air gun for changing wheels? Are they that anal that they need a 'common' tool? Just hire robots and get rid of the human factor.  Did they say the wheels lugs are smaller now? Would that not make the studs weaker and less safe?

Okay, time for Sebring, LeMans, CTMP/Mosport, real sports cars that I can identify at 100 feet :) 

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1 hour ago, Howard Cohen said:

Impala and Camaro? A sports car racing with sedans? Sedans - Nascar; Sports cars - IMSA.

I can't figure that either? I thought they were using Mustang and Camaro for the "B League" races. All the cars are essentially the same. In the SCCA, we called it Spec racing.

Why the periods? Must be to give the car sponsors more air time or maybe they are trying to copy a good old Canadian hockey game :) 

So they can "create drama" by having points for winning that session, period or whatever they call it. Also more advertising dollars during cautions.

Just hire robots and get rid of the human factor. 

Can't do that. People make mistakes and Nastycar loves it. More "drama".

Okay, time for Sebring, LeMans, CTMP/Mosport, real sports cars that I can identify at 100 feet :) 

I'm with you 100%. The 24 was great!

 

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2 hours ago, Howard Cohen said:

 

A few things I don't quite understand:

Why the periods? Must be to give the car sponsors more air time or maybe they are trying to copy a good old Canadian hockey game :) 

Originally, the stage racing was brought in to eliminate the boring sections in the middle of most races. So many cars waited till the last 20 laps before pulling the belts tight and going racing... the stage points supposedly ensure better racing throughout the entire race. It seems to be working. Another touted advantage to stage racing was allowing broadcast commercials to be run during the breaks during stages, thus eliminating some of the seemingly endless commercials during green flag runs. That hasn't happened: There are just more commercials throughout... Nascar can try to copy a hockey game but they'll never succeed. :)

I thought I heard the announcer (Jeff Gordon) say that a spin and crash was caused by the air pushing the car out of control when the right front fender went by the left 1/4 panel and changed the air flow so much the driver could not handle it? Are the new aerodynamics that bad that you cannot race side by side? 

Big changes to the cars this year that have made the cars MUCH more susceptible to aero push. They'll get a better handle on it as the season runs on, but truthfully, at speeds approaching 200 mph, the cars were always pretty loose and a slight push resulted in a spin, even if that push was only an aero push.

A new 'common' air gun for changing wheels? Are they that anal that they need a 'common' tool? Just hire robots and get rid of the human factor.  Did they say the wheels lugs are smaller now? Would that not make the studs weaker and less safe?

Supposedly to even the playing field. ;) Some of the well-funded teams were spending big money on things like air guns, making them lighter, faster and more powerful. When pit stops were in the 11-12 second times, every bit helped. It was putting most of the lesser-funded teams even farther back. Nascar's solution - one of their favourite solutions - is to spec the guns, making everyone use the same one. They could have set limits on gun performance and cost, but that's too hard to police (so Nascar says), so spec equipment it is. :( The lugs are the same size, the impact sockets are smaller.

Okay, time for Sebring, LeMans, CTMP/Mosport, real sports cars that I can identify at 100 feet :) 

 

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I watch every type of racing. Motocross to drag racing and everything in between but I watch less and less NASCAR every year. Just don't have any respect for them. I have respect for many of the drivers but don't get much enjoyment watching the "show" as it has become.

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   Nascar , like every other racing type is spec . They all have rules to follow , some of Nascar's have turned it into a clown show sometimes , but you can't say the drivers that go out there aren't the best at what they do . Everybody is on a new learning curve , so with the new rules the racing is dicey until they have enough information to sort the handling out .

I like watching just about any type of racing until they start complaining about how close to each other they are , just separating the men from the boys . Go to any local racetrack on a Saturday night and see how real racing is done , side to side , wheel to wheel , bumper to bumper , fighting for position . 

Indy is a joke , only 1 car and 2 or 3? engines , Formula 1 is a close second  (talk about spec racing !) . 

The guys that really impress me are the rally drivers that throw those cars all over the place trying to stay on the road and at speed .

But , like everything else that's just my opinion .

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The next race I am going to watch is the 12 Hours of Sebring. Way more interesting and cars are recognizable even with the aero enhancements. IMSA is the best racing we are getting nowadays.

I would like to see someone put on a race with stock Fords, Chevys and whatevers that only have a roll cage and shoulder harnesses installed. Put that at one of the "superspeedways". I wonder if any could last 500 miles flat out. Won't see it happen.

Unfortunately racing has become a billboard for various products.

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1 hour ago, oldnslow said:

 Indy is a joke , only 1 car and 2 or 3? engines , Formula 1 is a close second  (talk about spec racing !) . 

The guys that really impress me are the rally drivers that throw those cars all over the place trying to stay on the road and at speed

I totally agree with the Rally drivers. Just wish someone would provide good TV coverage. Don't agree with you on Indy. At least there's some passing with them. Don't care that there are so few engine providers. F1 isn't exciting any more. There's NO passing. I wish all the different sanctioning groups would take the wings and aero BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH off the cars and just race. Wing belong on airplanes.

 

1 hour ago, Bill J said:

The next race I am going to watch is the 12 Hours of Sebring. Way more interesting and cars are recognizable even with the aero enhancements. IMSA is the best racing we are getting nowadays.

Again, I totally agree!

 

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8 hours ago, oldnslow said:

   Nascar , like every other racing type is spec . They all have rules to follow , some of Nascar's have turned it into a clown show sometimes , but you can't say the drivers that go out there aren't the best at what they do . Everybody is on a new learning curve , so with the new rules the racing is dicey until they have enough information to sort the handling out .

I like watching just about any type of racing until they start complaining about how close to each other they are , just separating the men from the boys . Go to any local racetrack on a Saturday night and see how real racing is done , side to side , wheel to wheel , bumper to bumper , fighting for position . 

Indy is a joke , only 1 car and 2 or 3? engines , Formula 1 is a close second  (talk about spec racing !) . 

The guys that really impress me are the rally drivers that throw those cars all over the place trying to stay on the road and at speed .

But , like everything else that's just my opinion .

Agreed.

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On 2/20/2018 at 3:52 PM, Howard Cohen said:

I only watched the last few laps of the Daytona 150/150/200 as I was working at a car show (photos in a few days).

A few things I don't quite understand:

Impala and Camaro? A sports car racing with sedans? Sedans - Nascar; Sports cars - IMSA.

The Impala name plate hasnt been used since 2012 in the Cup Series and I think the same for the Xfinity Series, but yes, Chevy went from the SS to the Camaro for 2018,  I agree, its kind of silly that there is one Pony car ,  but Ford should be switching to the Mustang for 2019, no idea what Toyota is going to do, hoping the Supra.

Why the periods? Must be to give the car sponsors more air time or maybe they are trying to copy a good old Canadian hockey game :) 

No, the reason for the stages is to get drivers to race for the entire race and to give the networks some designated TV time outs for adverts like stick and ball sports have.   Fox and NBC were a big part of the stages.

I thought I heard the announcer (Jeff Gordon) say that a spin and crash was caused by the air pushing the car out of control when the right front fender went by the left 1/4 panel and changed the air flow so much the driver could not handle it? Are the new aerodynamics that bad that you cannot race side by side? 

Its a combination of the new no ride height rule and less downforce the cars have,  NASCAR wanted to make the drivers actually have to drive the race cars.

A new 'common' air gun for changing wheels? Are they that anal that they need a 'common' tool? Just hire robots and get rid of the human factor.  Did they say the wheels lugs are smaller now? Would that not make the studs weaker and less safe?

They wanted to level the playing field , teams were spending a large sum of money on the air guns. The amount of pit crew members was reduce down to 5 that can service the car.

Okay, time for Sebring, LeMans, CTMP/Mosport, real sports cars that I can identify at 100 feet :) 

 

Edited by martinfan5

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I personally don't like the segment racing as they do it now.
They wanted more exciting racing throughout the entire race but with these segments you get kind of a thrill for a couple of laps and then a looooong boring time of yellow flag everyone knows is coming and exactly when, after that green again and the last couple of laps gets interesting again before the next segment end and then another loooong boring yellow flag period until it gets green again to the end of the race.
I don't know if I think the long yellow flag periods in the middle of the race is more exciting than when they didn't have segments.
For me they can keep the segments but leave it green instead of the yellow flag everyone know is coming and let the race go on if nothing happens and it will be more unpredictable, and we don't have to see the long yellow flag periods those two times under the race as there are enough yellow flag periods in a race as it is without them.
The drivers in the top ten at the end of each segment can get points as they do now to keep them on their toes.

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5 minutes ago, Force said:

I personally don't like the segment racing as they do it now.
They wanted more exciting racing throughout the entire race but with these segments you get kind of a thrill for a couple of laps and then a looooong boring time of yellow flag everyone knows is coming and exactly when, after that green again and the last couple of laps gets interesting again before the next segment end and then another loooong boring yellow flag period until it gets green again to the end of the race.
I don't know if I think the long yellow flag periods in the middle of the race is more exciting than when they didn't have segments.
For me they can keep the segments but leave it green instead of the yellow flag everyone know is coming and let the race go on if nothing happens and it will be more unpredictable, and we don't have to see the long yellow flag periods those two times under the race as there are enough yellow flag periods in a race as it is without them.
The drivers in the top ten at the end of each segment can get points as they do now to keep them on their toes.

The reason for the yellow flags is for the the TV networks .

But  I agree with you , it would be better if they just stayed green at the end of stage.

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47 minutes ago, martinfan5 said:

The reason for the yellow flags is for the the TV networks .

But  I agree with you , it would be better if they just stayed green at the end of stage.

Yes.

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On ‎2‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:24 PM, webestang said:

I lost interest in NASCAR after Mark Martin retired. 

x2

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9 hours ago, martinfan5 said:

The reason for the yellow flags is for the the TV networks .

But  I agree with you , it would be better if they just stayed green at the end of stage.

It would for sure be more interesting, as it is now they plan the strategies after the known yellow flag periods.
The most interesting race I have seen so far since I started watching NASCAR in the 90's (we didn't have any NASCAR coverage on cable or other TV networks before that) was at Talladega back in May 1997, no cautions under the whole race so all pitstops was under green flag, it's the fastest NASCAR race to this day with an average speed for the whole race was over 188 mph...Mark Martin won.

Edited by Force

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