Jump to content
Model Cars Magazine Forum

Buddy Baker's 1980 Oldsmobile 442 in 1/25th scale.


Recommended Posts

The following is taken from Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_A_platform_(1936)

1968-1972[edit]

250px-%2769_Pontiac_GTO_%28Orange_Julep_
 
1969 Pontiac GTO

All GM A-bodies were completely restyled in 1968. The 400 cu in limit remained. In 1970 the 400 cu in limit was removed, mainly due to Chrysler's domination in the drag racing and muscle car market with larger engines and highest power rated engines available in nearly all Chrysler "B" platform models. This led each of the four GM divisions to offer their largest engines: Chevrolet's 454 cu in (7.44 L) in the Chevelle SS-454, Pontiac's 455 cu in (7.46 L) in the GTO, Oldsmobile's 455 cu in (7.46 L) in the 442, and Buick's 455 cu in (7.46 L) in the GS.

The two-door had a 112 in (280 cm) wheelbase; four-door, station wagon, and the El Camino had a 116 in (290 cm) wheelbase; and the stretched-wheelbase wagon had a 121 in (310 cm) wheelbase. 1968 model year A-body 2-door hardtops and convertibles had a vent wing window assembly - 1969-72 models had a one piece door glass where GM's Astro Ventilation system (first used with the 1966 Buick Riviera) was phased in.

Also using a variation of the A-body chassis and suspension were the 1969-1972 Pontiac Grand Prix and 1970-1972 Chevrolet Monte Carlo — both of which were marketed as intermediate-sized personal luxury cars and coded as G-body cars. The Grand Prix had a 118 in (300 cm) wheelbase and the Monte Carlo had a 116 in (290 cm) wheelbase. When the A- and G-body cars were restyled for 1973, the G-body design was renamed the A-special body.

1973–1977[edit]

250px-1977_Chevrolet_Chevelle_Malibu_Cla
 
1977 Chevrolet Chevelle Malibu Classic Landau Coupe

All GM A- and A-special body cars were completely restyled for 1973 with hardtop and convertible bodystyles completely eliminated due to pending Federal safety regulations. The 1973-77 cars were available in sedans, coupes and station wagons. General Motors described the pillared bodystyles with frameless doors and windows as "Colonnade" styling. Wheelbases for this generation were 112 for two-door coupes and 116 for four-door sedans and wagons.

By this time, the American performance car was considered extinct, but these "forgotten years" had some performance left.

  • 1973 Pontiac LeMans with the GTO option and the Pontiac Grand Am — Available with a 400 cid 230 hp (170 kW) V8 which was available with a 3-speed (LeMans, GTO) or 4-speed manual (LeMans, GTO, Grand Am) transmission or an automatic (LeMans, GTO, Grand Am), or a 250 hp (190 kW) 455 with an automatic transmission only. Also announced for the '73 GTO and Grand Am was the Super Duty 455 V8, which was rated at 310 hp (230 kW). Cars magazine tested an SD-455-equipped 1973 Pontiac GTO and chose it as Car Of The Year, yet that engine never made it to production in a GTO or other Pontiac A-body, but would be limited to the Firebird Formula and Trans Am.
  • 1973 Chevrolet Chevelle SS and 1974-1976 Chevelle Laguna S-3 — Offered with 350 small block or 454 big block V8 with up to 245 hp (183 kW) with manual or automatic transmissions. The SS was replaced for 1974 by the Laguna Type S-3 which offered the same engine/transmission offerings as the '73 SS plus the addition of a 400 small block V8, along with a urethane front end surrounding the grillework. The 1975-76 Laguna S-3 featured a more aerodynamic slanted front end but engines were further detuned due to emission requirements and the advent of the catalytic converter, leaving the big 454 V8 unavailable for California cars in 1975 and discontinued altogether for 1976, when the 180 horsepower (130 kW) small block 400 V8 was the top engine.
  • 1973-1974 Buick Century GS — Still available with the Stage 1 455 cid V8 rated at 270 net horsepower, mated to either a Turbo 400 or four-speed manual transmission, the latter transmission reportedly only installed in seven cars that year. The '74 Stage 1 455 was only available with the Turbo 400 automatic and detuned to 245 hp (183 kW). This engine was also offered on other Buicks in 1974 including the Riviera, LeSabre and Electra.
  • 1973-1975 Oldsmobile Cutlass Hurst/Olds W-30 — These were built using 455 cid V8 engines in the W-30 trim. This engine was also available as an option on the Olds 442 of those years along with other Cutlass models.
  • 1976 Buick Century Turbo — These were originally built as Indianapolis Pace Car replicas with a turbocharged and carbureted 3.8 L V6, and were faster than the 455 V8 version of that year. There were only a little over 1,200 built.
  • 1977 Pontiac Can-Am — This car was basically a LeMans Sport Coupe with a Grand Prix interior and a Trans Am "Shaker" hood, a one-off wing and a 400 cid V8 rated at 200 hp (150 kW) with federal emissions, or an Oldsmobile 403 with California emissions. Only 1,100 or so of these were made and are getting quite collectible.

1978–1981[edit]

250px-%2770s_Buick_Century.jpg
 
Buick Century

All GM intermediate-sized cars were downsized for the 1978 model year in response to CAFE requirements and the increased popularity of smaller cars. The redesigned models were similar in size to the previous X-bodies.

The Buick and Oldsmobile were introduced with fastback coupe styles, while the Chevrolet and Pontiac received notchbacks. Four-door fastback sedan models were also available. An interesting design compromise was non-lowering rear door windows on four-door sedans and wagons, which also reverted to full window frames while two-door models including the El Camino retained frameless glass. Performance applications included the Chevrolet Malibu F41 and M80, Pontiac LeMans GT, Oldsmobile 442 and Oldsmobile Hurst/Olds.

In 1982, with the introduction of the new front-wheel drive A-body, existing rear-wheel drive models were given the G-body designation.

Models of this generation include:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the incorrect sides of the body, the wrong rear suspension and the wrong rear bumper there is not much to like about this alleged kit. While it would be nice to get some cars from that era, NASCAR or stock, this attempt is too far from the mark, From what I have seen of the body and parts trees, it looks for all the world like the reintroduction of the early '70's MPC generic NASCAR kits. Hardly worth the premium price tag. At least the old MPC kits had fairly correct bodies.

The thing that really gets me is that they have not listened to one single person that has pointed out the glaring inaccuracies and made NO attempt to correct the kit in any way. Just pushing it out. None of the delays with the kit are because of corrections or inaccuracies, they are delays in  production, packing and shipping.

When I first heard about this kit I was excited but after seeing what it consists of, I am not spending a dime on one example.

Edited by Bill J
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually they're in the process of designing the correct rear suspension, another set of wheels, three different ride height spindles, and spacers to adjust the track width.  That will be sold as a separate kit for people who want to use such items in other NASCAR kits, and will be included in the upcoming Monte Carlo kit as duplicate parts to fix the Olds.

Edited by niteowl7710
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My  76 Cutlass had a 2 X 6 bumper because the other one rusted off.  It is a Race Car for goodness sake people.  They are nothing like stock anyway.  People are going to grab one of the many kits on their shelf to fix the issues with the rear end. no big deal, but yes it should have been correct to begin with. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Chris in Berwyn said:

I’d think they’d want to do the right thing and put the corrected parts in the Olds, but sounds like they want to ship it ASAP and not wait for the correct parts to be available.  

The correct parts are in 3D design phase now. Are they supposed to hold the finished kits for 3 months or so more? 

I mean getting right the first time is obviously the answer...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

The correct parts are in 3D design phase now. Are they supposed to hold the finished kits for 3 months or so more? 

I mean getting right the first time is obviously the answer...

They are a new company and charging a premium price.  I’d go with the old adage “there is only one chance to make a first impression.”   

Also, once they realized the kit has some problems you’d think they could have delayed the production run.  

But I wish them luck - the more manufacturers we have the better!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Chris in Berwyn said:

They are a new company and charging a premium price.  I’d go with the old adage “there is only one chance to make a first impression.”   

Also, once they realized the kit has some problems you’d think they could have delayed the production run.  

But I wish them luck - the more manufacturers we have the better!

Yeah I agree, making it right the first time would be the best answer.  There are a couple of schemes for the Olds that I'd be interested in, but I don't necessarily know that I'd buy one until the fixed parts are available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Chris in Berwyn said:

They are a new company and charging a premium price.  I’d go with the old adage “there is only one chance to make a first impression.”   

Also, once they realized the kit has some problems you’d think they could have delayed the production run.  

But I wish them luck - the more manufacturers we have the better!

In a perfect world, they would delay production and get the problems corrected.  But this is a small company and they must have cash flow.  They cannot bleed cash indefinitely.  Also for every argument that there is a problem with the kit there has been a counter argument that the kit is correct.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Jim N said:

Also for every argument that there is a problem with the kit there has been a counter argument that the kit is correct.

If any individuals involved in these "arguments" are interested in facts, said arguments can be easily settled.  Show me a single photographic example of one of these NASCAR Cutlasses running this type of rear bumper.

It's not correct for the 76-77 body style.  It more closely resembles the 74-75 type bumper, but it's not correct for that either.  Even if it was a correct 74-75 bumper, it's not correct on the 76-77 body, and NASCAR would not have allowed it.

Facts are stubborn things.  If none of this bothers you, that's fine.  Honestly, buy and enjoy.  But let's be realistic about the flaws that are a matter of fact.  Another fact is that they've lost a sale to me by failing to make their model actually LOOK like the car it's intended to represent.  I expect they will also lose a LOT of other sales by releasing this kit, as their debut product no less, with some glaring errors.  Last I checked, that's not too good for cash flow.

Edited by Robberbaron
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There also seems to be a difference in decals for Daytona:

photo3.jpg

 

This link:

https://speedsport.com/media/photos-the-lemay-museum/attachment/photo3-7/

is claiming the Daytona winner had this set, not what's in the kit.

The following shows the rear bumper and decals that were run at Daytona:

http://news-journalonline.mycapture.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?image=33400337&event=1143404&CategoryID=52056

33400337E.jpg

Sometimes, info on older NASCAR events can be misleading, and hard to find.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Robberbaron said:

If any individuals involved in these "arguments" are interested in facts, said arguments can be easily settled.  Show me a single photographic example of one of these NASCAR Cutlasses running this type of rear bumper.

It's not correct for the 76-77 body style.  It more closely resembles the 74-75 type bumper, but it's not correct for that either.  Even if it was a correct 74-75 bumper, it's not correct on the 76-77 body, and NASCAR would not have allowed it.

Facts are stubborn things.  If none of this bothers you, that's fine.  Honestly, buy and enjoy.  But let's be realistic about the flaws that are a matter of fact.  Another fact is that they've lost a sale to me by failing to make their model actually LOOK like the car it's intended to represent.  I expect they will also lose a LOT of other sales by releasing this kit, as their debut product no less, with some glaring errors.  Last I checked, that's not too good for cash flow.

I really suggest that you read or re-read RandyC's post on the previous page.  These race cars are hand built.  They are not bought off of a dealer's lot.  I am a member on another racing site and they were posting photos of race cars from the 1980's and the 1990's.  One of the pictures of a race car had Buick and Pontiac sheet metal. It was a Buick from the front bumper through the doors.  It was a Pontiac from the B pillars on back.  This car ran in at least one NASCAR event.  Another person mentioned that in the Jack Roush museum there is supposed to be a race car from one of Mark Martin's memorable wins.  EXCEPT IT'S THE WRONG CAR.  If my memory serves me correctly it was another car that was put together with whatever parts they had lying around in the race shop. 

In the 1970's, Chrysler took a picture of one of Richard Petty's Chargers and put it nose to nose with a production Charger.  Petty Enterprises messaged the front end of the race car.  Starting from the middle of the wheel wells going forward, the sheet metal has a downward slope to it.  The front end of the race car is noticeably lower than the production car.

If a model company used any of these cars as the basis for a kit, none of them would meet any of your expectations for what the car should look like.  But all of them would be representations of cars that actually raced.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This reputation will be not because we are cruel but because they chose to put out a poorly researched kit for whatever reason. They have probably lost a lot of respect among NASCAR modelers. Although some seem to accept the flaws as acceptable and due to the hand built nature of NASCAR race cars, that is BS since in those days they used factory sheet metal and were only allowed to widen the wheel openings, the cars were not hand formed like in the early 90's.

They 3D scanned an inaccurate resin model and took the CAD drawings and created a kit. No measurements, no looking at a real car just cranked it out. The only plus in the kit are the Powerslide decals. I am holding on to my money. A little error is common, an entire kit done with multiple errors is unacceptable.

The markings with Spectra were from the 1979 Daytona 500 and the NAPA Shocks were from 1980, when Buddy Baker won the race.

Edited by Bill J
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a shame these guys can't afford keyboard warrior mercenaries like the Revell Defense Fund.  Because Lord know when these exact same sort of issues were brought up about their kits, everyone who dared point out the flaws were told to shut up and be happy models even still exist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Bill J said:

This reputation will be not because we are cruel but because they chose to put out a poorly researched kit for whatever reason. They have probably lost a lot of respect among NASCAR modelers. Although some seem to accept the flaws as acceptable and due to the hand built nature of NASCAR race cars, that is BS since in those days they used factory sheet metal and were only allowed to widen the wheel openings, the cars were not hand formed like in the early 90's.

They 3D scanned an inaccurate resin model and took the CAD drawings and created a kit. No measurements, no looking at a real car just cranked it out. The only plus in the kit are the Powerslide decals. I am holding on to my money. A little error is common, an entire kit done with multiple errors is unacceptable.

The markings with Spectra were from the 1979 Daytona 500 and the NAPA Shocks were from 1980, when Buddy Baker won the race.

Did I write that the sheet metal was fabricated by the teams?  No, I did not.  At this point in time, there were few if any body on frame production cars.  They were uni-body construction.  NASCAR was and remains body on frame construction.  The only way these cars are built is by the teams hanging the sheet metal on the cars.  I couldn't care less who makes the sheet metal.  My post above clearly stated that these cars are not purchased off of a dealer's lot.  The frames are largely hand built whether it is done by a team or is outsourced.  The sheet metal is hung on the cars by hand.  The race cars are hand built.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Jim N said:

Did I write that the sheet metal was fabricated by the teams?  No, I did not.  At this point in time, there were few if any body on frame production cars.  They were uni-body construction. 

Not with GM then...in the late 70s through the late 80s all the GM midsize cars like the Cutlass were still body on frame.  As were the full size cars.  GM didn't migrate to unibody for mid size coupes until they went to FWD starting in '88.  Anyway, that was with real cars.

As far as racing 'stock car' panels, by the late 60s wasn't it more about 'stock appearing' and roughly stock dimensions rather than anything truly 'stock'.. 

Edited by Rob Hall
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Jim N said:

Did I write that the sheet metal was fabricated by the teams?  No, I did not.  At this point in time, there were few if any body on frame production cars.  They were uni-body construction.  NASCAR was and remains body on frame construction.  The only way these cars are built is by the teams hanging the sheet metal on the cars.  I couldn't care less who makes the sheet metal.  My post above clearly stated that these cars are not purchased off of a dealer's lot.  The frames are largely hand built whether it is done by a team or is outsourced.  The sheet metal is hung on the cars by hand.  The race cars are hand built.

Hate to enlighten you on an open forum. But the Plymouth and Dodge cars that the Petty clan (and anyone else running them) raced in the late sixties and seventies were ALL unibody cars, they even used the factory leaf springs in the rear and torsion bar suspension up front. That changed with the downsizing when they went to common measurements on the chassis and suspension and from then on almost everything is produced by a few different builders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To further muddy the waters: Nascar racers ( in all of the top 3 series as well as the Canadian Pinty's series) are ALL unitized construction and have been since at least the 80s.  I suspect the adoption of unitized construction happened in the mid sixties/early seventies throughout, but there may have been a few hold-outs...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ordered one of these kits because on my shelf it's going to look just like an Olds Nascar with the cool paint scheme and that's good enough for me, although obviously other people may feel differently.

 

This is a previously unobtainable body style for Nascar and I'm excited to have the opp to build it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/3/2018 at 11:44 PM, Bill J said:

This reputation will be not because we are cruel but because they chose to put out a poorly researched kit for whatever reason. They have probably lost a lot of respect among NASCAR modelers. 

I'm not saying that the arguements here are not valid in any way but from what I've seen so far this is the only forum that has taken a hardline stance from certain members at negative reviews of this new product. Everywhere else that I'm listening in I seem to hear a lot of enthusiastic folks excited about this kit. And now that it is released I'm seeing loads of facebook posts of people happy to have their new kit(s) in hand. Now we'll just have to wait and see how well received this first release really is. 

Honestly, I don't have a dog in this fight as this first release doesn't spark any interest from me. That being said, I'm rooting for this new company to be successful enough to continue with future releases in hopes that they will introduce some that I can't live without, like maybe a 78 Magnum. Like I said, we'll just have to wait and see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...