bobthehobbyguy Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I don't understand. in this thread and others they are always the complaints how this or that aspect of a model is wrong. Obviously there are people who feel it can be done better. Surely one of those people could take the challenge and show how its done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrObsessive Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Bob, look no further than this thread here. I've complained about this car forever (no, not the '58 Plymouth----another one ), and when it occurred to me that Round 2 will NEVER fix this one, I set about and made the corrections myself. No CAD, no drawings, no fancy tools. Just good 'ole eyesight engineering. The conversion is not done as of yet as this was not a WIP. If I can do this with just basic tools and practically zero dollars, why can't the model manufacturers even get the basic things right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Janssens Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 25 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said: I don't understand. in this thread and others they are always the complaints how this or that aspect of a model is wrong. Obviously there are people who feel it can be done better. Surely one of those people could take the challenge and show how its done! Give me 250k, and together with Some friends I wil show you how it's done. a bold statement, you betcha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Hey write a good proposal. Use kickstart or some other crowdfunding and go for it. In fact let me know what crowdfunding you are using so I can contribute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said: Its a shame that none of those who feel that they know how to develop and sell a kit doesn't step up to the plate to show everyone how it should be done! It would demonstrate to all that it can be done. Its a shame you are playing this tired and worn out card, we get it, you are willing to accept a turd in a box and and you give them a pass because they tried, but there are many that expect more , and its shame you cant understand that and have to make these types of post's. They had one job ,ONE job and they failed, there is no excuse, and I mean ZERO excuse for what they did, this 20bloody18 for crying out loud. I really do not understand why people that want decent kits get ridiculed or called rivet counters , why is there so much disrespect for builders that actually want a decent kit for their $35 from the side that doesn't care as long as it close enough ? We get it, there are many that are perfectly happy with close enough, or well they tried, but why is it so wrong for wanting just a bit more, wanting what was promised?, why is that such a bad thing, why do have to be ridiculed for wanting accurate model kits ? Edited July 15, 2018 by martinfan5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 Wow such hostility. I have only made the observation and that so many have opinions on how models can be done better. And that someone should take the challenge to show how its done. If its that easy then surely someone will do it. Don't see how my comment has anything to do with whether I buy this kit or not. Or what I think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said: Wow such hostility. I have only made the observation and that so many have opinions on how models can be done better. And that someone should take the challenge to show how its done. If its that easy then surely someone will do it. Who said it was easy? Doing something accurate takes a lot of research and attention to detail. That Salvinos missed the mark so badly with a new product from new tooling shows they may have cut a lot of corners and didn't put the effort into making a quality, accurate product. Edited July 15, 2018 by Rob Hall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill J Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 I have looked over every part of this Olds kit, there is not one part worth using on any model, except perhaps the battery. No one looked at a 1:1 car, no one looked at more than a few pictures and who knows where they got the ideas for the things they call a chassis, engine and interior. All done wrong. One guy doing the design? He failed, one person overseeing the company, he failed. It matters not if they sell all the kits, they might, what matters is that each and every one of them is wrong and could not have been done worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinfan5 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Rob Hall said: Who said it was easy? Doing something accurate takes a lot of effort and attention to detail. That Salvinos missed the mark so badly with a new product from new tooling shows they cut a lot of corners and didn't put the effort into making an accurate product. So you mean its not so easy a cave man can do it ? Its just a shame how badly they did with this kit. Edited July 15, 2018 by martinfan5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Wrench Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) I don't know if anyone else picked up on this on the Mike's Facebook page. This is a post from Rick Salvino himself, copied and posted here verbatim ... "Sorry I like to make one more comment. Don’t worry about the people that are picking are kit apart they expect a $80.00 Tamiya kit that can be sold worldwi5de in a $39.95 that is for a small slice of the hobby.We have exceeded all expectations and more !!! " Wow. Just wow. I've got some news for ya, Mr. Salvino ... Tamiya's Mercedes AMG GT3 kit sells for about $50, or roughly $10 more than uour misbegotten Olds. And, while it's a curbside, it makes your kit looks like it was designed by a toddler with crayons. (Which, let's be honest, it pretty much does, anyway.) If you can get past the mangled English, you can practically feel the hubris dripping from that post, too. I'm inclined to not ever buy any of these guys' products just because they come off as arrogant jerks. Edited July 15, 2018 by Allen Wrench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hall Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Allen Wrench said: I don't know if anyone else picked up on this on the Mike's Facebook page. This is a post from Rick Salvino himself, copied and posted here verbatim ... "Sorry I like to make one more comment. Don’t worry about the people that are picking are kit apart they expect a $80.00 Tamiya kit that can be sold worldwi5de in a $39.95 that is for a small slice of the hobby.We have exceeded all expectations and more !!! " He must have had very low expectations...Palmer-level accuracy in a kit $10-15 more than a Revell stock car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteowl7710 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Allen Wrench said: I don't know if anyone else picked up on this on the Mike's Facebook page. This is a post from Rick Salvino himself, copied and posted here verbatim ... "Sorry I like to make one more comment. Don’t worry about the people that are picking are kit apart they expect a $80.00 Tamiya kit that can be sold worldwi5de in a $39.95 that is for a small slice of the hobby.We have exceeded all expectations and more !!! " Wow. Just wow. I've got some news for ya, Mr. Salvino ... Tamiya's Mercedes AMG GT3 kit sells for about $50, or roughly $10 more than uour misbegotten Olds. And, while it's a curbside, it makes your kit looks like it was designed by a toddler with crayons. (Which, let's be honest, it pretty much does, anyway.) If you can get past the mangled English, you can practically feel the hubris dripping from that post, too. I'm inclined to not ever buy any of these guys' products just because they come off as arrogant jerks. But in a domestic market the Tamiya AMG GT3 is only $36. Which is nearly EXACTLY (and maybe less depending on where you buy it) what this mess costs. I guarantee if one of these winds up in Japan it's not going to sell for $40, it'll be more like $50-55, as current Round2 and Revell kits sell in the mid-$40s. The irony of seeing this post is I was just going to make this exact point that it's effectively Tamiya level price, then I expect Tamiya quality. Or at least RevellAG...or Aoshima... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Wrench Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 A more fair point of comparison might be the Moebius/Model King vintage NASCAR kits, like the '61 Pontiac, '55-'56 Chryslers and '52-'53 Hudsons. Those kits usually sell for $30-$35, and, while they have their shortcomings, they leave the Salvinos Olds in the dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteowl7710 Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Allen Wrench said: A more fair point of comparison might be the Moebius/Model King vintage NASCAR kits, like the '61 Pontiac, '55-'56 Chryslers and '52-'53 Hudsons. Those kits usually sell for $30-$35, and, while they have their shortcomings, they leave the Salvinos Olds in the dust. I grant you that certainly, but often time we here the excuse about budgets and kit costs effecting the end price - and ergo we should accept lower quality kits, and be happy about it. But this kit's pre-sale was $40, there's no higher priced domestic offering out there other than the 2 man show at Galaxie Limited, which is clearly offering a vastly superior product for the $40. It's an entire country code closer to Tamiya quality than this Oldsmobile will ever be. As prices rise into higher-end Aoshima and average Tamiya areas, these kits can not continue to be wildly subpar efforts at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Wrench Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, niteowl7710 said: As prices rise into higher-end Aoshima and average Tamiya areas, these kits can not continue to be wildly subpar efforts at the same time. Actually, they can and will as long as automotive modelers are willing to accept wildly subpar efforts, and until such time as they start voting with their wallets and demanding better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill J Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 There are people that accept this kit, knowing all the shortcomings and think all of us critics are jerks. Sad to me that anyone can accept this kit, the lame excuses and the entire lack of effort that they are asking top dollar to purchase. I would think that all the hype created a lot of preorders and perhaps Salvino's takes that as happy customers. I don't know. I do seriously doubt there will be many preorders for the next kits they produce. Myself, I held off on the Olds because I doubted they'd get it right. They far exceeded that, they got it wrong on all levels. I am really glad I held off on the Olds, even though it is a car I always wanted to build. I will most definitely hold off on the Monte Carlo until I see the final product. The CAD drawings they released look decent but that is not any indication of what will actually come in the box. They planned on using the chassis that came in the Olds for all of their kits, so that alone is reason to not buy any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranma Posted July 15, 2018 Share Posted July 15, 2018 This isn't to change the subject, But This die cast looks almost to the kit body wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Allen Wrench said: And what is really galling is the attitude of the kit's manufacturer, chief distributor and their sycophants that people should willing accept, and even be thankful for the opportunity to shell out their hard-earned dollars for, a product that they themselves acknowledge is subpar and riddled with inaccuracies. If you went into a restaurant and were served a bad meal that made you violently ill, I seriously doubt you'd be mollified by excuses like "The meal was a one-man effort" or "It's the first time the chef ever cooked that meal." And I expect you'd be downright furious if the manager told you should be thankful the establishment provided you with the opportunity to be served such a terrible meal. And finally, I don't think you'd continue to patronize the restaurant because you wanted to see it succeed. I'll simply never understand why so many car modelers willingly, even cheerfully, accept junk in boxes like this Olds kit and even berate and belittle those who have the temerity to point out that what they're purchasing is, in fact, junk. It all goes ro reinforce beliefs that the IQs of a lot of modelers are a lot like a Hobby Lobby coupon; 40 percent off from normal. So if don't baseband belittle this kit or the people involved, I'm 40% off normal? That's an incredibly rude to imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowsportwagon Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 2 hours ago, ranma said: This isn't to change the subject, But This die cast looks almost to the kit body wise. The frt bumper on the diecast is closer to right. It wraps around the corners better and has the intake slots that are missing on the kit. I do think the diecast rear bumper is wrong too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris in Berwyn Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 There seem to be a ton of people congratulating Salvinos on this mess on the Mike's Decals page. I guess each to his own, but it is amazing how vociferous some of these people are given they must realize the kit is junk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niteowl7710 Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 15 minutes ago, Chris in Berwyn said: There seem to be a ton of people congratulating Salvinos on this mess on the Mike's Decals page. I guess each to his own, but it is amazing how vociferous some of these people are given they must realize the kit is junk. They're too busy triumphantly posting that tired old claptrap about "Are you a modeler or a kit assembler?" than they are to realize the kit's shortcomings. The rest are so desperate for their to be an American kit manufacturer after Revell closed and Moebius was sold (and for some reason these people seem to think they ALSO stopped working on anything - even though a quick read through of any forum easily disproves that), that their poor shaken Luddite souls can't possibly see this as anything other than a complete and total success and anyone who dares question it is a troll and rivet counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill J Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I can only guess that some of the people that seem to appreciate the Olds kit are young NASCAR fans that are not familiar with the actual race car other than a few fuzzy pictures from the Internet. They only care that the general shape looks okay to their eyes and that it appears to sit right on the shelf. Personally I am glad I never spent any money on this kit, I would rather buy a steak dinner or something else for that amount. I do wish Salvino success but only hope they take some of the critics to heart and do much better next time. I am not holding my breath though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luc Janssens Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 14 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said: I don't understand. in this thread and others they are always the complaints how this or that aspect of a model is wrong. Obviously there are people who feel it can be done better. Surely one of those people could take the challenge and show how its done! À couple of new players who (to my knowledge) did do it right: - Belkits - Beemax - Nunu again, it's all about geting the right people on board, als à newbie there's too much you don't know about that can and Will go wrong, Am I a "mister know it all", nope...not by far, but through the years I met people who do know. It's à real pitty their first release isn't à homerun, I for one sure hoped iT would have been... pick yourself up and try again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merkur XR4Ti Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 (edited) 10 hours ago, Chris in Berwyn said: There seem to be a ton of people congratulating Salvinos on this mess on the Mike's Decals page. I guess each to his own, but it is amazing how vociferous some of these people are given they must realize the kit is junk. "junk" is a ridiculously strong term and IMO it's completely unfair. To me the kit will be junk only if it doesn't look like a Nascar Olds once it's on my shelf. I don't get worked up about torsion bars or any of that stuff, but that's just me. Mine is on the way, and it it looks like an Olds I'll be happy. From what I've seen it will. it sure beats trying to hammer a resin body into submission. To each their own, but there's an awful lot of self-righteous chest-thumping here that doesn't seem warranted. Don't like the kit? Don't buy it. It's a hobby, not open-heart surgery. Edited July 16, 2018 by Merkur XR4Ti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamsuperdan Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Okay, so I think we all get the picture here. The kit has a plethora of shortcomings and isn't an accurate representation of the real thing. Have I got that right? So how many times does that need to be said? I have a few thoughts. 1. the people who buy this kit are not idiots 2. is there a better option out there? 3. when built and displayed on a shelf, will this keep most NASCAR fans happy? 4. any more disparaging remarks about Rick Salvino and this thread gets shuttered. Did he get the kit right? Apparently not. But he is the only one I'm seeing stepping up, committing his own time and money in trying to get something to market that no one else is getting to market. If someone thinks they can do a better job, it sounds like everyone in this thread would love to see it. Someone above said they know a bad product when they seen one, and had all kinds of analogies about it. True enough, and that's the difference between being an armchair critic and being entreprenuerial. Having the gumption and drive to invest your time and money into something you're passionate about. If we're going to use analogies, it took the makers of WD40 forty tries to get it right. It took The ROlling Stones a few albums to get their sound right. Bill Gates' first computer was garbage. And I'm willing to bet that the first Revell or Tamiya kits were less than perfect too. Heck, nobody skewers Moebius like this for the shortcomings in their kits, which have been discussed here, but not with this kind of vitriol. Criticize the kit, not the person. 5. Maybe someone should build this kit, and document the fixes needed to make it accurate. Do a service for others. Or maybe just buy it, build it, display it, and enjoy it for what it is...the only option out there for this subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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