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Ace-Garageguy

OK...what do you recommend for PANEL LINES, specifically BEFORE PAINT?

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Same stuff I recommended in the other thread, MM Acryl Flat Black or Vallejo. Depending on the final body color, you can also use the various shades of gray, blue, red, etc., mixed in to make the panel lines more subtle and blend in better with the body color. Being that you deal with 1:1 cars on a daily basis, look at the panel/shut lines. They're not solid black. They appear as slightly darker shades of the paint job, with a thin, almost imperceptible dark gray in the recesses.

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13 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

Same stuff I recommended in the other thread, MM Acryl Flat Black or Vallejo...

Mmmmk. What I was wondering, which I should have mentioned, is if there are any known compatibility issues with lacquers. I shoot lacquer exclusively on model cars because I'm entirely familiar with it, and can get exactly the gloss I want every time.

I had this horrible vision of micro-lifting in the shut lines if I shot lacquer over acrylic or enamel, or possible adhesion issues leading to grief during wet-sanding and polishing.

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I've been using India ink applied with a Speedball quill pen. Doesn't matter what paint chemistry you're using, as it's a straight solution of bootblack in water. There's no vehicle (binder) to react. 

I usually apply it after primer, and before paint. 

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If you apply a few light mist coats of lacquer, it shouldn't affect the acrylic paint. The light coats won't be as chemically aggressive as a single, heavier one and will form a barrier which will seal the acrylic once you spray heavier coats of the lacquer.

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I've used whatever flat or matt black is handy, enamel or acrylic, I don't care. I wipe the excess off with rubbing alcohol on a paper towel off while it's still wet, anyway. 

If your scribing job is good and your paint job is good, very little (if any) of the black will be visible in the finished job anyway. But good to know it's in there if anyone ever takes a REALLY close look. B)

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3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Mmmmk. What I was wondering, which I should have mentioned, is if there are any known compatibility issues with lacquers. I shoot lacquer exclusively on model cars because I'm entirely familiar with it, and can get exactly the gloss I want every time.

I had this horrible vision of micro-lifting in the shut lines if I shot lacquer over acrylic or enamel, or possible adhesion issues leading to grief during wet-sanding and polishing.

That's why I've never tried this technique.

I have very little trust that there will not be a reaction between the paint in the panel lines & the overlying lacquer.

Besides that, after seeing that the above photo has the black applied to the bare plastic, I have less confidence that it would show through in the end at all with my painting technique.

I don't think that it would hold up to 5 or 6 coats of primer & another 3-5 color coats.

I suppose I could try something on top of the primer, but I doubt that it would work for me as pictured.

 

Steve

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Whatever you do, DO NOT use a black Sharpie for this. It might look nice at first, but over time the Sharpie in will leach out right through the paint. 

I know, hard to believe, but I've seen it on model airplanes when guys did this on panel lines. Utterly ruined the model and there's no way to fix it short of a complete strip and repaint. 

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3 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

Whatever you do, DO NOT use a black Sharpie for this. It might look nice at first, but over time the Sharpie in will leach out right through the paint. 

I know, hard to believe, but I've seen it on model airplanes when guys did this on panel lines. Utterly ruined the model and there's no way to fix it short of a complete strip and repaint. 

Already made that mistake, but the solvents in the primer made the black color bleed IMMEDIATELY into the surrounding area.

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4 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

 look at the panel/shut lines. They're not solid black. They appear as slightly darker shades of the paint job, with a thin, almost imperceptible dark gray in the recesses.

To this day, this is still a subject of contention to me.

I agree that black does not look good for panel lines on a model, but I still feel that this has much more to do with the width of the panel lines on a model versus a real car.

If your panel lines are narrow enough & are done deep enough, ( if you still have plenty of the panel edge exposed) I think it would look just fine.

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time seeing anything but pure black here.

 

Steve

 

image.png.05c6b34785e7368829ac9a46acf335aa.png

image.png.2deb3302fccf8bff4de40db666d02b0f.png

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11 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

That's why I've never tried this technique.

I have very little trust that there will not be a reaction between the paint in the panel lines & the overlying lacquer.

Besides that, after seeing that the above photo has the black applied to the bare plastic, I have less confidence that it would show through in the end at all with my painting technique.

I don't think that it would hold up to 5 or 6 coats of primer & another 3-5 color coats.

I suppose I could try something on top of the primer, but I doubt that it would work for me as pictured.

 

Steve

So then...how DO you keep your door lines nice and crisp with as much material as you apply?

In the photos of your finished work, your shut lines look much like those of Mr. Cruz.

I've been assuming everyone who got such fine results was using similar techniques.

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2 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

So then...how DO you keep your door lines nice and crisp with as much material as you apply?

In the photos of your finished work, your shut lines look much like those of Mr. Cruz.

I've been assuming everyone who got such fine results was using similar techniques.

I usually will scribe all of my panel lines a bit more to insure that they are all deep enough & uniform & then just paint it.

After all of my paint work, foil, etc, usually one of the very last things that I will do is use some Ceramcoat acrylic craft paint, slightly thinned and flowed into the panel lines & then after drying to the touch I wipe over the body with a slightly dampened cloth to remove any excess.

This helps get it cleaned at least a bit down into the groove & helps to keep it looking less stark.

I also will use a darker shade of the body color on lighter colors to help with lessening the starkness.

Black works fine on dark colors.

This '58 Buick was done in this manner, probably with dark green, but I think it still looks pretty much black, & I also think it looks pretty realistic. ;)

 

Steve

 

2v23JgvhoxwUbWP.jpg

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I tend to scribe the panel and door/trunk lines deeply and then paint.  If need be, I will flow a little Tamiya Clear Smoke to enhance.

DSC_0349.JPG

Edited by Exotics_Builder

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This one I did by scribing the shutlines a bit deeper with a BMF scriberDSC00157-vi.jpg

 

...

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Anyone tried these yet? My son uses them to define the panel lines on his Gundams. I keep meaning to buy one, but the mind alas, is slippery when I get to a hobby store.

Image result for gundam markers

Edited by Jantrix

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On 3/12/2018 at 10:03 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Already made that mistake, but the solvents in the primer made the black color bleed IMMEDIATELY into the surrounding area.

You mean "dark purple"?  Black Sharpie is actually a very, very dark purple color. When it gets diluted, it shows its true color. :)

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24 minutes ago, peteski said:

You mean "dark purple"?  Black Sharpie is actually a very, very dark purple color. When it gets diluted, it shows its true color. :)

You would be correct sir. What diffused through the gray primer was indeed purple.

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On 3/13/2018 at 5:32 AM, Jantrix said:

Anyone tried these yet? My son uses them to define the panel lines on his Gundams. I keep meaning to buy one, but the mind alas, is slippery when I get to a hobby store.

Image result for gundam markers

Yes, my latest completed that is in the under glass section I used those on it.

I scribe the panel lines to get them a little bit deeper, than I am use the marker , then primer and paint.

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On 3/14/2018 at 7:40 PM, peteski said:

You mean "dark purple"?  Black Sharpie is actually a very, very dark purple color. When it gets diluted, it shows its true color. :)

Yep, you really see the purple when you say use alcohol to remove it,  the cloth or whatever you used will be purple :lol:

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Tamiya XF-1, thinned and pin washed into panel lines, after back blading a worn, #11 exacto knife a couple times....

s1KqAFl.jpg

proceed as normal, prime, paint, clear...when dry, re-apply very thin pin wash ,...if needed

lZX46gT.jpg

Edited by Belugawrx
pics

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