Jo-Han

[PlymouthFan]

Well I know there’s a thread or two sneaking around on here about Jo-Han models but got curious what happend to the model molds and the company these guys were way before I got into modeling and I never got a story on anything Maybe since time had passed Maybe someone knows some stuff

[64Comet404]

There's very little left, unfortunately. From what I have heard over the years, most of the tooling went out the doors with employees, who then sold it for the scrap value. It's a shame, because I have rarely seen a Jo-Han body that didn't accurately represent the 1:1 version.

[PlymouthFan]

That is a shame I know some kits float around on eBay now and then but some like the 70 RR 69 GTX (sorry to exclude a bunch but those were off the top of my head) I had hoped there was a chance the molds could be found for most of these as some of these I only know of in 1/24th or the bodies need a bit of work depending on which car and company you get it from

[Richard Bartrop]

Their Cadillac V-16 and Mercedes 500k kits are still some of the best ever made, even today, and what happened is a shame.  It's like hearing someone used a Stradivarius for kindling.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Richard Bartrop

[StevenGuthmiller]

Yeah, the chances are extremely high that you will never see any of the old Johan stuff resurrected,  which is a real shame.

They were basically the sole creator of everything Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler, & Cadillac throughout the late 50s & 60s.

The chances of ever seeing the majority of those full sized Mopars & Caddys that they produced, ever again in kit form, are virtually non-existent.

 

Steve

[PlymouthFan]

The quality of the bodies has impressed me on some of my dads models he built a white stock super bird out of one of the petty kits and the body on that thing is amazing it’s very accurate to a 1:1 car

[Daddyfink]

Maybe the mods should make a permanent "What Happened To Jo Han" sticky

 

 

[Casey]

11 hours ago, PlymouthFan said:

Well I know there’s a thread or two sneaking around on here about Jo-Han models

Did you read those existing topics?

[Luc Janssens]

3 hours ago, Daddyfink said:

Maybe the mods should make a permanent "What Happened To Jo Han" sticky

 

 

a book would be nice, but since everyone is gone, except Dennis Doty, who was somehow involved with them in the mid '70s (I think) very unlikely

[PlymouthFan]

I read through a few threads but I wanted to get a more recent response I thought since time had passed people might know

[Rob Hall]

Just now, PlymouthFan said:

I read through a few threads but I wanted to get a more recent response I thought since time had passed people might know

Nothing has changed.   Jo-han is still dead.  

[Jantrix]

13 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Yeah, the chances are extremely high that you will never see any of the old Johan stuff resurrected,  which is a real shame.

 

I hope, thanks to 3D printing, maybe someday someone will do some scans of an old kit and reverse engineer them. As 3Dprinting evolves, it seems like it would be a no brainer. Most of my childhood involved Johan, because the looked so good, but were generally simple to assemble. I'd love to have them back.

[Luc Janssens]

And will remain so, unless you're willing to spend a fortune in court instead.

 

[Luc Janssens]

1 minute ago, Jantrix said:

I hope, thanks to 3D printing, maybe someday someone will do some scans of an old kit and reverse engineer them. As 3Dprinting evolves, it seems like it would be a no brainer. Most of my childhood involved Johan, because the looked so good, but were generally simple to assemble. I'd love to have them back.

Depends.....on how many can file a claim, that you're copying something that's legaly theirs.

[Fat Brian]

3 minutes ago, Jantrix said:

I hope, thanks to 3D printing, maybe someday someone will do some scans of an old kit and reverse engineer them. As 3Dprinting evolves, it seems like it would be a no brainer. Most of my childhood involved Johan, because the looked so good, but were generally simple to assemble. I'd love to have them back.

Even if the actual kits aren't redone 3d printing will make it possible to have kits of these vehicles again period.

[Jantrix]

11 minutes ago, Luc Janssens said:

Depends.....on how many can file a claim, that you're copying something that's legaly theirs.

But what is still legally theirs? In 2000, Okey Spaulding bought Jo-han. Created Johan Models LLC, a new company. Does he own the intellectual rights to old kits, from molds he's never owned? Once he passes, who owns what? Lots of questions and would the legals fees alone, exlipse what could be gained financially?

[Luc Janssens]

38 minutes ago, Jantrix said:

But what is still legally theirs? In 2000, Okey Spaulding bought Jo-han. Created Johan Models LLC, a new company. Does he own the intellectual rights to old kits, from molds he's never owned? Once he passes, who owns what? Lots of questions and would the legals fees alone, exlipse what could be gained financially?

Both IMC and Moebius failed in their attempt to re-release old Jo-Han kits of which was known that the tooling still existed, I remember that even Okey was in litigation with someone over Jo-Han, it's a hornets nest a can of worms, JoHan as we know it died a long time ago, probably about the time Jack Daniels or anothe brand was tossed into the mix.

[SfanGoch]

53 minutes ago, Jantrix said:

Does he own the intellectual rights to old kits, from molds he's never owned?

Buying the rights to the Johan trademark wouldn't make sense unless it included the intellectual property rights. Major companies that acquire businesses also acquire copyrights, trademarks, intellectual property rights, etc. related to the acquired business in order to control their use.

[Jantrix]

37 minutes ago, Luc Janssens said:

Both IMC and Moebius failed in their attempt to re-release old Jo-Han kits of which was known that the tooling still existed, I remember that even Okey was in litigation with someone over Jo-Han, it's a hornets nest a can of worms, JoHan as we know it died a long time ago, probably about the time Jack Daniels or anothe brand was tossed into the mix.

 

36 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

Buying the rights to the Johan trademark wouldn't make sense unless it included the intellectual property rights. Major companies that acquire businesses also acquire copyrights, trademarks, intellectual property rights, etc. related to the acquired business in order to control their use.

Excellent points. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by Jantrix

[SfanGoch]

Litigation is as American as apple pie. You want to make copies? To quote Henry Hill:

"F*** you, pay me."

Pretty simple and straightforward business model.

[Jantrix]

17 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

Litigation is as American as apple pie. You want to make copies? To quote Henry Hill:

"F*** you, pay me."

Pretty simple and straightforward business model.

Understood. I've been reading up as this conversation has gone on. 

[boss 302 mustang]

The Jo-Han tools are long gone and even if anything was available, I believe John Haenle did not have the same type of machinery that is used for most injection molding , so it would be difficult if not impossible to run the tools.  And I don't think the tools and inserts were made like AMT/MPC/Revell....I know he used an oddball metal which is why the employees sold the inserts for a high scrap value.

[StevenGuthmiller]

4 hours ago, Jantrix said:

I hope, thanks to 3D printing, maybe someday someone will do some scans of an old kit and reverse engineer them. As 3Dprinting evolves, it seems like it would be a no brainer. Most of my childhood involved Johan, because the looked so good, but were generally simple to assemble. I'd love to have them back.

With advances in 3D printing moving along every day, scanning & reverse engineering an old kit will be completely unnecessary.

Completely new files will probably be easier to produce & then there won't be any issues with getting anyone's approval from the old Johan stuff, & any new kits would probably be more detailed as well.

My guess would be that rights will still need to be obtained from the vehicle manufacturers though.

As if that's not going to be difficult & expensive enough!

 

Steve

[Luc Janssens]

39 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

With advances in 3D printing moving along every day, scanning & reverse engineering an old kit will be completely unnecessary.

Completely new files will probably be easier to produce & then there won't be any issues with getting anyone's approval from the old Johan stuff, & any new kits would probably be more detailed as well.

My guess would be that rights will still need to be obtained from the vehicle manufacturers though.

As if that's not going to be difficult & expensive enough!

 

Steve

Indeed Steve.

 

[Richard Bartrop]

All the more reason to make models based on orphan makes.