1958 Cadillac , which one to get

[gtx6970]

Guys,

Im thinking I need a 1958 Cadillac kit in the pile .

 

Question is , WHICH one is the better option

Id prefer 1.25th. but if 1.24th is my only option. I may go that route

[stavanzer]

As far as I know, your only choices are the Imai kits from the 1990's. Revell only does the 1959 Caddy.  However others may know much more.

[gtx6970]

17 minutes ago, alexis said:

As far as I know, your only choices are the Imai kits from the 1990's. Revell only does the 1959 Caddy.  However others may know much more.

Ive found Imii, Heller and Amex , may be all the same kit just reboxed ?

Plus the old Johan promo kit ( which would be my 1st choice if the price were comparable)

[MrObsessive]

No modern 1958 Cadillacs except for the Imai ones, and IMO they're not as accurate as they could be. You MIGHT be able to get an X-EL promo (nee Johan) off the 'Bay on the cheap, but that's a huge longshot, and all of those are the four door 60 Specials. Sadly, the promos made in the '50's are warped to death----at least the ones I've seen.

I have an Imai '58 Caddy Eldo Seville, but it's one of those models (like I want to do with the '58 Plymouth) that needs a complete overhaul body wise from bumper to bumper. That's just me though..............

I also have one of the X-EL 60 Specials, but for the time being, that's untouchable.

Edited May 6, 2018 by MrObsessive

[MrObsessive]

4 minutes ago, gtx6970 said:

Ive found Imii, Heller and Amex , may be all the same kit just reboxed ?

Yeah Bill............those are pretty much all the same just reboxed at different times.

[crazyjim]

I have an ARII 1958 Caddy Eldorado Biarritz # 31001-2400.

[Richard Bartrop]

There's one by Lee that looks to be based off the Imai kit, but the chassis has been reworked so it can be motorized. The moulding also doesn't seem to be as crisp.

[Mike999]

Avoid anything from Lee.  All their stuff I've seen is very poor copies:  Tamiya 1/24 Mercedes, several Tamiya 1/35 military kits, etc.  I haven't seen anything new from Lee in quite a while, so they may be out of business.  If so, good.

All boxings of that 58 Cadillac Biarritz came from the ARII molds originally released in the 90s.  ARII did 3 different versions:  convertible with the top down and a boot; convertible top up (no boot) and a hardtop.  The hardtop was a separate piece that took some work to blend in with the body. 

Along with its other issues, it only has 9 chrome "hashmarks" on the rear quarter panels and should have 10.  And the power window switches on the driver's door are in the wrong place.  Which is funny, because the side-panel box art (of a real car) shows them in the right place.

You might be able to find a resin 58 Cadillac 2-door hardtop kit that I believe was made by R&R Vacuum Craft.  I have one, and it's a really nice full kit with chassis, chrome and wide whitewall tires.  The interior has a split front seat, as it should for a 2-door.  It was obviously mastered off the JoHan 4-door Sixty Special.  I know that because it still has the JoHan "Fleetwood" lettering on the trunk, which shouldn't be there.  The only Cadillac 2-door hardtops in 1958 were the Series 62 and the Coupe de Ville.  The only Fleetwood was the Sixty Special 4-door.

 

Edited May 6, 2018 by Mike999
error

[gtx6970]

Thanks fellas

I have builders of both the 1959 and 1960 Johan annuals. Plus I have all the AMT/SMP 1958 annuals so it seems only fitting to add one more( like I really NEED one more )

 

I'm not against paying up just a tad to get the Johan version . But for the prices I seem them today on ebay,,,I'll pass completely .

 

Although I would prefer a convertible,,,,,,  I would take the more accurate Johan to keep it 1.25th ,,,,even if its 4 door. Resin is not my 1st choice ,,,not matter the scale or body style.

 

Anyone got one they are thinking to cut loose any time soon?

 

ps, wasn't there a Revell kit that had a multi piece body ? Comments good bad or what .

Edited May 6, 2018 by gtx6970

[SfanGoch]

That was Revell H-1244 '57 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham

[Junkman]

It's a bloody disgrace that 50s Cadillacs are so novercally dealt with by the model kit industry.
One would think that such iconic, popular and historically significant cars would be total no brainers, but alas.

[Junkman]

Besides, those Arii kits are rubbish.
The size of them alone.

[gbt216]

Though nominally referred to as 1/25 scale, the '58 JoHan Fleetwood Sixty four-door scales out smaller than 1/25 - somewhere around 1/26 or so as I recall measuring.  I remember being told many years ago (by Art Andersen, I believe) on that "other magazine" forum that the Johan Cadillacs were too big to fit into the standard-sized promotional boxes of the day, so they shrunk them accordingly to fit in the boxes.

gt

 

[Junkman]

GM commissioned them to do so, so they fit the standard Promo SKUs of the day.
They are thus narrower and shorter than proper 1/25th scale.
However, GM insisted that the interiors are the correct length in 1/25.
Thus, much to Mr Haenle's dismay, they had to make the models ill proportioned.

That's the version I was told by Dennis Doty.

 

Citing issues from 60 years ago properly manifests a disgrace of what magnitude the
model kit industry's persistent negligence of 50's Caddies really is.

What have they given us in those 60 years?

Some half arsed '58s, a '59 Eldo and Sev and that dismal Foose abomination.

This is not good enough!

Edited May 8, 2018 by Junkman

[StevenGuthmiller]

I have seen some pretty nicely done examples of the Imex kit, ( Imex, Arii, Heller, all the same thing).

While they are not optimal, they are your only real choice for a 2 door '58.

I also have one of the Johan/X-EL Fleetwoods.

They are a pretty nice, although, very simple model, as all of the Johan promos were.

I'm planning on re-doing mine in the not too distant future.

I happen to have 2 of the Imex '58s, one convertible and one hardtop, (exact same kit with different tops)

If you're exceptionally nice Bill, we might be able to strike a deal! 

 

Steve

[ZTony8]

There was also an Eldorado Seville two door hardtop in 1958( and Cadillac built either 4 or 6 Eldo Seville 4 door hardtops!).

[niteowl7710]

5 hours ago, Junkman said:

GM commissioned them to do so, so they fit the standard Promo SKUs of the day.
They are thus narrower and shorter than proper 1/25th scale.
However, GM insisted that the interiors are the correct length in 1/25.
Thus, much to Mr Haenle's dismay, they had to make the models ill proportioned.

That's the version I was told by Dennis Doty.

 

Citing issues from 60 years ago properly manifests a disgrace of what magnitude the
model kit industry's persistent negligence of 50's Caddies really is.

What have they given us in those 60 years?

Some half arsed '58s, a '59 Eldo and Sev and that dismal Foose abomination.

This is not good enough!

Well the rub really is the '56, '57 & '58 Cadillacs are pretty far apart in terms of their styling.  So even if the chassis/suspension/running gear was identical - I profess no knowledge of that - you're talking about at least three bodies needing to be done to get three different versions out of the base of the tooling.  I suspect there are interior variances within those 3 years as well.  No one year is going to be able to stand alone as it's own tooling - because what else are you doing? A convertible, a different trim level?  Once again we're tooling at least body inserts if not entirely new bodies.  The economics of selling a Cadillac, no matter how nice they look vs. selling truckloads of Tri-Five Chevys to casual weekend modelers picking up kits at Hobby Lobby made THAT series of kits an easy decision.  

Personally I'd LOVE to have a Seville from each year, but can you convince 14,998 other people to buy one too?  Otherwise you're talking a low volume, single use tool, and prices in the MENG/Belkits/Ebbro range which frankly the whiny loud majority would dust their tighty whiteys if you start expecting them to pay $55 for a model kit of anything.  Unless you make curbsides out of them, and I could already hear the outrage as I typed those letters.

Edited May 8, 2018 by niteowl7710

[SfanGoch]

Everything and more about all things Cadillac :

New Cadillac Database

Check out the sections for Cadillac toys and scale models. There is an interesting section on Johan Caddys.

Edited May 8, 2018 by SfanGoch

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, niteowl7710 said:

the whiny loud majority would dust their tighty whiteys if you start expecting them to pay $55 for a model kit of anything.  Unless you make curbsides out of them, and I could already hear the outrage as I typed those letters.

Well, there's a big part of the problem, isn't it.

So many people whine and moan about how they would like to see a kit of this model or that one, but the caveat is always that it has to be a super detailed kit for under $25.00.

Personally, I would be more than happy to spend over $50.00 on a nicely detailed '57 Cadillac kit, or just as well, $20.00 on a well proportioned curbside version.

Either one would be fine by me.

Unfortunately, I believe that I am in the minority on this.

 

Steve

[Mike999]

In 1956 Cadillac sure took "planned obsolescence" to a whole new level.  As the Cadillac Database says, the '56 models were only slightly changed from 1955.  Until you got inside the car, when you saw the letters "Nineteen Fifty-Six" spelled out in big gold letters across the passenger side of the dashboard. That was the only year Cadillac did that, and it's always fascinated me.

That meant all your passengers knew they were riding in a brand-new Caddy. But only until Sept. 1956, when the new models came out. Suddenly you were driving last year's Caddy and risked being mocked at the country club...

 

[Junkman]

7 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

Well the rub really is the '56, '57 & '58 Cadillacs are pretty far apart in terms of their styling.  So even if the chassis/suspension/running gear was identical - I profess no knowledge of that - you're talking about at least three bodies needing to be done to get three different versions out of the base of the tooling.  I suspect there are interior variances within those 3 years as well.  No one year is going to be able to stand alone as it's own tooling - because what else are you doing? A convertible, a different trim level?  Once again we're tooling at least body inserts if not entirely new bodies.  The economics of selling a Cadillac, no matter how nice they look vs. selling truckloads of Tri-Five Chevys to casual weekend modelers picking up kits at Hobby Lobby made THAT series of kits an easy decision.  

Personally I'd LOVE to have a Seville from each year, but can you convince 14,998 other people to buy one too?  Otherwise you're talking a low volume, single use tool, and prices in the MENG/Belkits/Ebbro range which frankly the whiny loud majority would dust their tighty whiteys if you start expecting them to pay $55 for a model kit of anything.  Unless you make curbsides out of them, and I could already hear the outrage as I typed those letters.

And?

[gtx6970]

13 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Well, there's a big part of the problem, isn't it.

So many people whine and moan about how they would like to see a kit of this model or that one, but the caveat is always that it has to be a super detailed kit for under $25.00.

Personally, I would be more than happy to spend over $50.00 on a nicely detailed '57 Cadillac kit, or just as well, $20.00 on a well proportioned curbside version.

Either one would be fine by me.

Unfortunately, I believe that I am in the minority on this.

 

Steve

We think A LOT alike .

Being a product of the late fifties myself . I tend to gravitate to the cars of that time frame . And I would gladly pay $50 or so for a NICE kit .  ( God knows  Ive paid for more than that for a good portion of my stash as it is )

pm coming btw

 

[SfanGoch]

We, and a few others, are in the minority on this. My armor kits cost, on average, a whole lot more than fifty bucks each. But, you get what you pay for. The majority seems to want styrene swellness at bargain basement prices.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, gtx6970 said:

We think A LOT alike .

Being a product of the late fifties myself . I tend to gravitate to the cars of that time frame . And I would gladly pay $50 or so for a NICE kit .  ( God knows  Ive paid for more than that for a good portion of my stash as it is )

pm coming btw

 

PM returned.

 

Steve