Future of the hobby

[SfanGoch]

Remember this

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

1) "Kids" were never competent to build models. Not 50 years ago, or 40, or 10. Just look at the plethora of horrible glue-bombs available everywhere for confirmation. "Model" cars were initially aimed at teens and young adults; look at the ads and models from Revell in the mid-1950s, and articles in the REAL hot-rod mags for confirmation of that. And just as the model railroad hobby was not for "kids" initially, dumbing-down of the products, and marketing them as "toys" produced vastly more revenue for the manufacturers who went that way. Lots of sales, not a real high percentage of well-built models.

2) 60 or 50 or 40 years ago, kids learned from their peers about building models, or in my case, from my own FATHER. But the hobby was FAR from being a universal pastime even back then. Jocks and girls thought model-builders were the equivalent of today's bespectacled nerds, for the most part.

3) Yes, some young people today might very well become interested in building models IF they were exposed to the concept. But...they have to be exposed to it, and their peers aren't going to do it.

4) The majority of parents are too busy chasing the bucks to buy stuff to impress the neighbors to have real time to take with their kids. Parking a youngster in front of the TV or computer is NOT the kind of parenting that passes on values, manners, interests, a respect for knowledge, or much of anything worthwhile. 

5) Anyone lamenting the impending demise of the hobby needs to DO SOMETHING to introduce young folks to it, rather than just whining incessantly that kids have no interest and short attention spans. The manual skills and reading comprehension, problem solving, and perseverance one learns from building models will come in handy in real-life for ANYONE who does it.

6) It is the responsibility of adults toTEACH kids. Adults who can't be bothered have no room to gripe if what they see in younger generations doesn't measure up to expectations.

7) And no matter how much effort you put into introducing your own children, or grand-kids, or nieces and nephews, or the Scout Club members to modeling, some of them just are NOT going to be interested. Different personalities have their interests triggered by different things...even brothers. My father's interest was primarily aviation, and my main interest was trains in the beginning. The old man kinda lost interest in me when I didn't immediately fall in love with planes, but the model bug was firmly planted...and as I've said probably dozens of times on this and other boards, I have model-building to thank for launching me into a world where people MAKE things, where imagination and overcoming difficulties are the currency that gives my life value, both personally and professionally.

SHOW A KID SOMETHING NEW, and then get out of the way.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Scott Colmer]

Here is my personal experience:

I loved cars as a kid... Especially, hot rods. My dad took me to the Oakland Roadster Show and dirt track races. I found a partially disassembled Black Widow in a toy box at my great grandma's house and play with it until I figured out how it went together. My parents got me glue and a lot of news paper and I was off to the races. I think I was 4 or 5. I built by myself until I was in college and found the SAM club up in Sacramento. 

After I got married and had kids, I built models with all three of my sons. They enjoyed the time together, but none of them had an interest in cars, or model cars. The two boys who lived with me liked making stop motion animation movies. The other son preferred video games. So they never built much independently. 

Just the way it went in my house. Not sure what it says about the future of the hobby. I would like to see it continue, but I have a life time stash, so it it goes the way of scrimshaw, I'll be fine.

 

[jchrisf]

I'm 48 and I just got into this hobby within the past month.  I used to race cars and motorcycles, jump out of planes, scuba dive with sharks, etc (I still mountain bike, though the metal plate covering my entire collar bone with 8 screws from a crash six months ago makes me feel my age) but I am just as content to sit here in my office and make beautiful cars.  Sign of my age I guess.. I don't have the desire to do any of that stuff any more.  I owned a nice Corvette for 10 years and recently sold it.  Don't care to get another sports car and am content driving my 4 cylinder Subaru.  I'd rather save my money, retire early and enjoy this hobby along with a couple other hobbies that I enjoy.  I sure hope this hobby sticks around for a while as I don't have many kits or supplies even though I've already spent at least $700 on this just to get started.  Shouldn't cost too much from here though.  Maybe this is a hobby for guys like me who like cars but have been there and done that and just want to enjoy them in miniature, less expensive and maintenance free form.

Edited May 13, 2018 by jchrisf

[Khils]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I have model-building to thank for launching me into a world where people MAKE things, where imagination and overcoming difficulties are the currency that gives my life value, both personally and professionally.

A pleasure to absorb the input & knowledge that's NEVER off the mark!!  Thank you! Bill

[av405]

A lot of good (and maybe not so good) comments in this thread. I'm 27, and I seriously got into this hobby in my late teens. However, I built my first model kit at the age of 9 in 2000 (yeah, go ahead, feel old). That kit was the Lindberg Crown Victoria police car. I saw it one day on the store shelf and being a 9 year old with dreams of becoming a police officer and seeing the car that I saw patrolling the streets every day, I had to grab it. So what's my point? Despite having a Game Boy and other distractions, I saw a car I was able to identify with, asked my mom to buy it for me, and here I am now. As many have pointed out, the companies simply aren't pumping out new kits of current or "newer" subjects that people my age and younger can identify with. I'm glad you guys can have your reissues, but in a perfect world, we would be getting a balanced combination of newer subject matter and reissues that are guaranteed to turn a profit.

With that being said, there's a lot of really great stuff in the pipeline as far as 3D printing goes. For those of you on FB, check this page out and look at the possibilities: https://www.facebook.com/Too-Many-Projects-1669710309751941/ . The hobby in the US will continue, but perhaps in a downsized way. I would be happy to order a made-to-order 3D printed kit if the price compares to a regular plastic kit. I'm excited to see what this technology will produce in the coming years as I don't intend to leave this hobby anytime soon. 

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

3) Yes, some young people today might very well become interested in building models IF they were exposed to the concept. But...they have to be exposed to it, and their peers aren't going to do it.

7) And no matter how much effort you put into introducing your own children, or grand-kids, or nieces and nephews, or the Scout Club members to modeling, some of them just are NOT going to be interested. Different personalities have their interests triggered by different things...even brothers.

My three kids were constantly exposed to my modeling, even going to club meetings with me, yet none of the three ever showed the slightest interest in doing it themselves. 

My youngest genuinely appreciates it when I build a model for him, but still has no interest in doing them himself. The other two would rather get a $5 Starbucks gift card from me than a built model. I don't buy Starbucks gift cards for anybody, so, their loss. 

[Luc Janssens]

5 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

My three kids were constantly exposed to my modeling, even going to club meetings with me, yet none of the three ever showed the slightest interest in doing it themselves. 

My youngest genuinely appreciates it when I build a model for him, but still has no interest in doing them himself. The other two would rather get a $5 Starbucks gift card from me than a built model. I don't buy Starbucks gift cards for anybody, so, their loss. 

My kid (age 10), built some kits with my help, but looks he's more interested in Lego, that it is untill my wife bought him a Cat.

Who knows maybe the cat will turn him into a Kat later on.....

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Luc Janssens

[Tom Geiger]

2 hours ago, Snake45 said:

My three kids were constantly exposed to my modeling, even going to club meetings with me, yet none of the three ever showed the slightest interest in doing it themselves. 

Dave Burket, Model King has twin sons.  Neither of them had the slightest interest in models. Back in the day when they were in trouble Dave would bring them to a model club meeting as punishment!   

[OldTrucker]

I got my first model at 10 or 11. My grandpa and Uncle helped me build it.

I started buying the kits that were not much more than assembled promos to start and no paint. Left cars for airplanes for a while and then back to cars in my teens.

By then I was building glue kits and painting them. Even won a couple trophy's at local hobby shop contests back then.

I have build ever since with some breaks inbetween for Uncle Sam and for truck driving over the road but always kept in it to some extent.

All three of my sons built in grade school and Jr High but lost interest without ever really doing anything that was good. I ended up with what they left. Some ended up in parts boxes and a few I saved.

Now one of my youngest (36 now) is back into it. He started back about 5 years ago and has become quite good. No, not show quality but very presentable work!

His son who is 4 is taking interest in his dad's and my models that we have built and those we are working on. He is a car nut any way! So I could see him getting into it whan he is old enough.

My little building buddy we lost in 2015 just before he turned 4. He would sit for hours and watch me build and knew what a lot of the parts were and what the tools I used were!

Really miss that little man.

[martinfan5]

As long as there are model kits to be built, the hobby will be alive,  the hobby will die when the very last model kit has been built, or there is not one human around to build the model kits, fact.   The business side of the hobby, sure, that can die off,  but its not dying off right now.   I think almost every serious model builder has enough model kits in their stash to last a few human being life times,  so there is that.  

Fact, the sky is not falling in the hobby world, its changing, evolving,  starting a new chapter for the new era.

 

[Richard Bartrop]

7 hours ago, martinfan5 said:

As long as there are model kits to be built, the hobby will be alive,  the hobby will die when the very last model kit has been built, or there is not one human around to build the model kits, fact.   The business side of the hobby, sure, that can die off,  but its not dying off right now.   I think almost every serious model builder has enough model kits in their stash to last a few human being life times,  so there is that.  

Fact, the sky is not falling in the hobby world, its changing, evolving,  starting a new chapter for the new era.

 

As has been pointed out elsewhere, you don't even need kits.

[Art Anderson]

On 5/11/2018 at 9:22 PM, Snake45 said:

But before that, plenty of kids were building model airplanes out of balsa and tissue, and airplanes, cars, and ships out of solid wood. 

Most kids today aren't interested in anything more complicated than a Lego kit they can get together in 20 minutes. Can't be off their phones too long--someone else somewhere is doing something FAR more interesting, dontcha know! 

True, to a point.  Back before plastic model kits began hitting store shelves, it was balsa, spruce or basswood, even Strathmore Board card stock, often with rather crude wheel/tire units made from Bakelite plastic (later Acetate and much later on,  styrene).  However, relatively few kids built such model car kits, and it was pretty much the same with balsa wood, and those solid spruce Strombecker aircraft kits, most builders then were adults, and even they were fairly few and far between.  It was, more than likely, Hudson Miniatures who began popularizing model car kits--their first ones were kitted in Strathmore Board card stock, with roughly preshaped wood parts for frame rails and such, with injection-molded plastic detail parts--such as wheels/tires, steering wheels, radiators and lights (nearly all of Hudson Miniatures kits were of pre-WW I brass era cars, and thus aimed at adult builders,  most of us kids coming up in the early 1950's shied away from them.  Then it was Revell's Highway Pioneers, which had fairly broad popularity in the early 1950's, but tended to be overshadows (for the principal reason we shied away from Hudson Miniatures--they were model kits antique cars.  Additionally, when plastic scale models of both aircraft (mostly military) from the likes of Aurora, Lindberg, Revell, even Strombecker, the "Highway Pioneers" subject matter started to fade to the background.  In 1955-56, Revell brought out a small series of 1/32 scale modern Detroit iron,  but with multipiece body shells, and early on, no plated parts, and never any molded windshields and back glass.  In 1955-56, Monogram brought out their larger scale 1955-56 Cadillac Eldorado convertibles in what, 1/16 scale or thereabouts--fantastically detailed for the day, but their price tag (seems to me that was $2.98 or so) was a rather princely sum for a lot of us, and those kits didn't sell very well at all.  But the real growth spurt of both the model car kit industry and the hobby of building model cars came with the introduction of 3in1 customizing kits, in 1/25 scale from AMT Corporation (along with their almost "sister" company, SMP), followed by JoHan in 1959 (both companies had limped along, doing promotional models for the auto industry, and toy-store versions of the same subjects, but as ready-assembled and somewhat painted, and the rest, as they say, is history.  

But along the way, building model cars, as a "kid" thing, elicited just about the same "attention span" for most kids back then, as kids today exhibit.  We didn't have smartphones, of course, but we did have television, and that took up far more of our free time than our parents would have liked.  In addition,  our desire for the "instant gratification" of being able to complete a model kit in a relatively short span of time was little different than that of kids today.

Art

[mikemodeler]

Well, between the rumors of Revell raising prices some $10 or more, Tamiya setting fixed prices (MAP), Hobby Lobby shelves being empty of Revell kits, people hoarding Revell kits because they might not be available much longer, the average modeler age is growing and not enough youngsters are building kits today, I have resigned myself to throwing all of my model kits and supplies and tools away because I fear my hobby is dead.

 

No, just kidding. I have never built models for others nor do I care if models are still around next year, next decade or next century. Instead of speculating on what will happen, rehashing what has happened, or regurgitating the same old, same old stories about the good old days and what YOU did, we should just build a model or two and enjoy the hobby.

The future is bright if you see it that way, it isn't if you don't, it's that simple folks.

[Jim N]

There are a lot of factors that go into this discussion.  What I believe we have to look at are demographics, competition for entertainment and finally the cost of the hobby may be getting prohibitive.

I started building models in the 1960’s when I was a kid.  Many others started in the 1950’s and others in the 1970’s.  That seems to be the sweet spot when models were very plentiful, relatively inexpensive  and there were many subjects.  The mid 1960’s marked the end of the baby boomer generation as we all know.  We CANNOT underestimate the effect the number of kids coming out of this era had.  In every group of friends I had growing up; I was the only one who liked building models.  But with the huge population of kids from that time, the model companies did not have to get a large number to build in order to have a large market.  Every generation of adults since has produced fewer kids.  The model companies now have to get a much larger percentage of these kids to build in order to maintain let alone grow if future generations are going to keep this hobby going.

The competition for entertainment is a big factor as well.  When I was growing up the television was off a lot of the time.  That was only because there was not much to watch.  There were only the 3 network stations, PBS and a few local stations on the UHF band of channels.  Keep in mind that I grew up in the second largest city at that time.  We had to find other avenues to keep ourselves busy and entertained.  The only sports available to participate in were baseball, football and basketball, but there was not that much organization involved so not many kids that I knew participated.  It was very common for my parents to send me out of the house and tell me when to be back home.  I could do pretty much what I wanted as long as I didn’t get into trouble.  It was common for parents to raise their kids this way.  Anyone who does this today faces the risk of being turned into the government and those busybodies will be more than happy to get involved.

Today there is much more competition for leisure time.  There are the video games and the internet that a lot of us complain about.  But the other element is that kids are raised differently.  Parents take their kids to organized activities and there are a lot of them.  If a family has more than one kid, the parents seem to be always shuttling the kids to their activities.  When our kids were young, my wife wore out 2 cars primarily because she was driving them to their activities.

The same applies for adults.  I live in a much smaller city now, but within 60 miles of where I live there are many entertainment options available.  I could keep busy and be out of the house every day or night of the week without any problems if I wanted to.

The last point is that there is no such thing as a cheap hobby, but building model cars has been rather inexpensive until lately.  With the model manufacturers raising their prices to a minimum of $30.00 per kit, this hobby is getting costly.  The other thing we have to keep in mind is that building models is difficult.  It takes time to develop the skills to build a model well.  With all of the competing activities for anyone’s time, the model companies do not have the luxury of having a person buy and build a dozen or two dozen kits before a person sees improvement.  Model companies are moving toward the snap kits or the modified snap kits because they know they do not have the luxury of time to attract and keep a customer.  Too many people will not put up with the frustration of building a significant number of models before seeing any real improvement.  The cost of the kits is getting too high and there is just too much competition for a person’s time to put up with a long period of frustration for an activity that is supposed to be a hobby.

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Jim N said:

The competition for entertainment is a big factor as well...

...The last point is that there is no such thing as a cheap hobby, but building model cars has been rather inexpensive until lately.  With the model manufacturers raising their prices to a minimum of $30.00 per kit, this hobby is getting costly.  The other thing we have to keep in mind is that building models is difficult.  It takes time to develop the skills to build a model well.  With all of the competing activities for anyone’s time, the model companies do not have the luxury of having a person buy and build a dozen or two dozen kits before a person sees improvement.  Model companies are moving toward the snap kits or the modified snap kits because they know they do not have the luxury of time to attract and keep a customer.  Too many people will not put up with the frustration of building a significant number of models before seeing any real improvement.  The cost of the kits is getting too high and there is just too much competition for a person’s time to put up with a long period of frustration for an activity that is supposed to be a hobby.

 

Perspective is everything.

I, for one, have never viewed building models as "entertainment". I am, always was, and will be 'til the day I die, a hard-core gearhead. I build models because it's a logical extension of my passionate love for all things mechanical. I build CAR models mainly because the subjects I choose are cars I'd build full-scale if I had Bill Gates' money.

As far as the expense goes, look at inflation, the relative buying power of the dollar, and the cost of living in general over the past 50 years. A model kit isn't really too terribly much more expensive relative to a gallon of gas or a quart of milk than one was when I was a kid with a seriously limited income.

And last...there NEVER have been a huge number of people who build models WELL, or were willing to put in the hours full of frustration, re-dos, and just plain effort that it takes to master ANYTHING. Nothing new now, other than the fact that manual skills of any kind are going the way of the dodo bird, much to our peril.

Thank the instant-gratification, everyone's-a'winner-for-nothing culture we've created for that.     

                                                                                                                                              

Edited May 15, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[SfanGoch]

9 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

And last...there NEVER have been a huge number of people who build models WELL, or were willing to put in the hours full of frustration, re-dos, and just plain effort that it takes to master ANYTHING. Nothing new now, other than the fact that manual skills of any kind are going the way of the dodo bird, much to our peril.

So much for "Jack of all trades, master at none". The majority of today's yoots know jack about nothing.

[Ace-Garageguy]

One more point re: price of kits today. 

There are PLENTY of neat desirable kits available for $20 or less, if you shop carefully and get to know what's what.

Cheap gluebombs can also be an excellent basis for beautiful models.

Granted, neither of these options sound like much fun to the instant-gratification set...

[gtx6970]

Dying ? 

Maybe not. But definitely on a downward trend. I can see it spiraling down even more , especially in the next 20 or 30 years. Look around fellas ,,,, We aint getting any younger folks.

Look around at any Model show/swap meet. Or even 1.1 car shows/swap meets for that matter. There  is definitely  more grey hears than there used to be. Not many young guns in the modeling world . Some of the 1/1 shows have actually created a class targeted specifically at the younger crowd. Mopar Nats calls it Young Guns And as far as I know it does quite well.

 

But, I dont care really. Even if every model kit manufacturer closed up shop today.  I have more than enough to keep me busy till I'm 6 ft under.

My family has said any builts will stay in the family and passed on . Any unbuilts will go away in one way or another.

Edited May 16, 2018 by gtx6970

[SfanGoch]

Are the comments about the imminent demise of "the hobby" based on the demographics of this, and other, fora? Using this information as evidence doesn't provide an accurate picture. Why not? Because, there are far more people who do build models and don't, for whatever reasons, choose to frequent hobby-specific websites and groups than actually do. I asked my son, a sophomore in high school, to ask his friends if they're into modeling. Well, there are 29 guys in his shop class. Surprisingly, twenty build models. Twelve build car models and none visit online modeling sites or buy modeling mags.

[gtx6970]

29 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

Are the comments about the imminent demise of "the hobby" based on the demographics of this, and other, fora? Using this information as evidence doesn't provide an accurate picture. Why not? Because, there are far more people who do build models and don't, for whatever reasons, choose to frequent hobby-specific websites and groups than actually do. I asked my son, a sophomore in high school, to ask his friends if they're into modeling. Well, there are 29 guys in his shop class. Surprisingly, twenty build models. Twelve build car models and none visit online modeling sites or buy modeling mags.

My opinion is based on a couple things.

This forum ( as well as other forums )  Car shows - swap meets ( both model and 1/1 ) and simply looking around while browsing the toy/ modeling isle in stores and hobby shops. The remote control isle is much busier in most cases

The younger age is simply NOT flocking to the model bench in droves like when I was younger

[Aaronw]

12 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

Are the comments about the imminent demise of "the hobby" based on the demographics of this, and other, fora? Using this information as evidence doesn't provide an accurate picture. Why not? Because, there are far more people who do build models and don't, for whatever reasons, choose to frequent hobby-specific websites and groups than actually do. I asked my son, a sophomore in high school, to ask his friends if they're into modeling. Well, there are 29 guys in his shop class. Surprisingly, twenty build models. Twelve build car models and none visit online modeling sites or buy modeling mags.

 

There are a lot of Facebook model groups. It would be interesting to see how the ages compare to here. It is not uncommon to see disparaging comments towards Facebook here, so I suspect that would provide a substantially different demographic. I'm sure you would see substantially different demographics simply based on themed groups, say a tuner group vs traditional customs.

I would also guess that taking a poll of what Yahoo model groups remain would likely skew to make the average age shown here to be whippersnappers. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by Aaronw

[peteski]

15 hours ago, gtx6970 said:

Some of the 1/1 shows have actually created a class targeted specifically at the younger crowd. Mopar Nats calls it Young Guns And as far as I know it does quite well.

Well, in my model club it is just the opposite. We have put up a model contest for over 25 years and we had pee-wees and juniors classes.  For the last few shows there were no juniors entering that class so this year we decided to get rid of the juniors class.  Of course, since we got rid of that class, this year will have half a dozen juniors show up with models for the contest.  I actually hope so.

[89AKurt]

2 hours ago, Aaronw said:

 

There are a lot of Facebook model groups. It would be interesting to see how the ages compare to here. It is not uncommon to see disparaging comments towards Facebook here, so I suspect that would provide a substantially different demographic. I'm sure you would see substantially different demographics simply based on themed groups, say a tuner group vs traditional customs.
[...]

I've been finding that out, many different model groups that are based on location of the Admins, the primary subject matter, how long in existence, etc.   I do see the trend for the younger crowd is Tuners (for example).  I joined a scratch-built model group, and then was able to see what people were into, and found it was R/C trucks mostly, which are still amazing, but I found out long ago what a money pit R/C is.  I have also seen a real jet-powered SR-71 R/C plane, so when money is not limited.......

THE FUTURE IS BRIGHT, JUST DIFFERENT.

[Aaronw]

I still prefer forums like this, but the FB groups are many and can be pretty specific.

I had little to do with FB until the past year when I found out about the groups. Since it is so easy to form a group there is a group for just about everything. Totally different format, but kind of like the old yahoo groups, there is almost nothing to niche to find a group about.