ISO someone with a brain that knows a thing or two about engines

[Ace-Garageguy]

AND...You definitely want to be careful if the car is full of mouse droppings. Wear a respirator, goggles or glasses at least, gloves, a paper suit if you can get one, and hose it down with a solution of Clorox BEFORE you really start working on it. If you can't get a protective suit, don't wear the clothes you wore to clean it up again until AFTER you wash them in detergent, Clorox and hot water.

Honestly...a little water won't hurt the thing at this point. Just be sure to cover any openings in the engine, like breathers or the carb, etc. before you douche it. Frankly, I'd probably hose out the interior and under the dash too. Let it dry out thoroughly, it will be fine.

Rodents are the worst for creating mindless damage, and their droppings can harbor bad make-you-sick stuff.

[landman]

2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

AND...You definitely want to be careful if the car is full of mouse droppings. Wear a respirator, goggles or glasses at least, gloves, a paper suit if you can get one, and hose it down with a solution of Clorox BEFORE you really start working on it. If you can't get a protective suit, don't wear the clothes you wore to clean it up again until AFTER you wash them in detergent, Clorox and hot water.

Honestly...a little water won't hurt the thing at this point. Just be sure to cover any openings in the engine, like breathers or the carb, etc. before you douche it. Frankly, I'd probably hose out the interior and under the dash too. Let it dry out thoroughly, it will be fine.

Rodents are the worst for creating mindless damage, and their droppings can harbor bad make-you-sick stuff.

Yes, hanta virus, very very bad.

[mikemodeler]

If this thing is really as bad as it sounds with mice droppings and the engine hasn't been run in years, I would suggest selling the car for scrap and putting the money towards a different engine/vehicle. The cons outweigh the pros on this deal, at least from where I sit.

[Ace-Garageguy]

52 minutes ago, mikemodeler said:

If this thing is really as bad as it sounds with mice droppings and the engine hasn't been run in years, I would suggest selling the car for scrap and putting the money towards a different engine/vehicle. The cons outweigh the pros on this deal, at least from where I sit.

I've brought back lotsa stuff that's sat for over 20 years. We had a '38 Ford in the last shop that had been sitting for over 40, and she was running within a week of when we got her.

If the engine's not seized, there's hope...and even if it is seized, engines often free-up with some TLC.

Scrapping what may be a perfectly good Mopar 440 and a 727 Torqueflite makes absolutely NO sense from where I'm sitting. They're not making any more, you know.

My own '63 Olds convertible (lost after my mother died, tracked down in Texas and brought back up here to restore when I retire shortly) hasn't run since the 1980s, and there's a lot worse stuff in it than a little mouse-poop..

PS. He's most likely going to scrap the car shell...the engine is going in his truck.

And by the way...this is how people did hot-rods before the days of checkbook-and-catalog car building.

 

[mikemodeler]

3 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I've brought back lotsa stuff that's sat for over 20 years. We had a '38 Ford in the last shop that had been sitting for over 40, and she was running within a week of when we got her.

If the engine's not seized, there's hope...and even if it is seized, engines often free-up with some TLC.

Scrapping what may be a perfectly good Mopar 440 and a 727 Torqueflite makes absolutely NO sense from where I'm sitting. They're not making any more, you know.

My own '63 Olds convertible (lost after my mother died, tracked down in Texas and brought back up here to restore when I retire shortly) hasn't run since the 1980s, and there's a lot worse stuff in it than a little mouse-poop..

PS. He's most likely going to scrap the car shell...the engine is going in his truck.

And by the way...this is how people did hot-rods before the days of checkbook-and-catalog car building.

 

That's great Bill, but I am getting the sense that the OP doesn't have the skill set to bring dead engines back to life and my comments were meant to guide him towards an easier solution. Yes, the only way he will learn is to actually do it, but at what cost?  You are assuming the 440 and 727 are perfectly good, yet they haven't been run in years and could be seized up for all you know.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

9 hours ago, mikemodeler said:

That's great Bill, but I am getting the sense that the OP doesn't have the skill set to bring dead engines back to life and my comments were meant to guide him towards an easier solution. Yes,  (1) the only way he will learn is to actually do it, but at what cost?  (2) You are assuming the 440 and 727 are perfectly good, yet they haven't been run in years and could be seized up for all you know.

 

1) When I built my first car from junk (at 18), a clapped out '62 VW that someone had put a terminally leaky '58 36HP engine in, I had almost no skills either. After a summer's work on the car, I drove it daily to my classes at Ga.Tech. Later that same year, I was competing fairly successfully with it in autocross events. At what cost? Whatever I earned and was willing to put into the thing in terms of my own money and effort. And the experience helped me build confidence in my own ability and judgement, and ultimately launched me on a career that's been rewarding in many ways for almost 50 years, and insures to this day that I can find well-paid employment pretty much anywhere, pretty much instantly. I'd say the long term cost/benefit ratio worked out nicely in my own case, and I applaud any young person who chooses the path that's not "easier".

2) No. Only a moron would assume that an engine and gearbox are good...or bad...from 2700 miles away, without even seeing any test results. I may be a lot of unpleasant things, but moron isn't one of them.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[mikemodeler]

13 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

 what may be a perfectly good Mopar 440 and a 727 Torqueflite makes absolutely NO sense from where I'm sitting. 

 

And you know this from looking at the first picture posted? BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH, you are good! 

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

37 minutes ago, mikemodeler said:

And you know this from looking at the first picture posted? BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH, you are good! 

 

Work on your reading comprehension skills.

I said MAY be etc. etc.

That means "might", as in "possibly". 

[Xingu]

10 hours ago, mikemodeler said:

That's great Bill, but I am getting the sense that the OP doesn't have the skill set to bring dead engines back to life and my comments were meant to guide him towards an easier solution. Yes, the only way he will learn is to actually do it, but at what cost?  You are assuming the 440 and 727 are perfectly good, yet they haven't been run in years and could be seized up for all you know.

 

A lot of folks have the skill to fix things...if they would only try. Too many folks don't want to turn a wrench anymore and will take a car to the shop for the simplest problems. Props to Cale for getting in there and trying to figure it out. As with any advice, either from the internet, a book or face to face, weed through it and decide what YOU think is right and what YOU are willing to try.

[426 pack]

Ok I’m just go say that no matter what happens the car WILL NOT BE SCRAPED because I will not crush an old car I don’t know why but I just can’t do it, even if I wanted to scrap prices are so low it wouldn’t be worth the gas to get to the scrapers, If the 440 and/or 727 don’t work I will take them apart to learn more about engines/transmissions, and sorry I forgot about this but my Dad reminded me that 1 year before I bought the car he talked to the owner of the car and he had it fire up.

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 hours ago, 426 pack said:

Ok I’m just go say that no matter what happens the car WILL NOT BE SCRAPED because I will not crush an old car I don’t know why but I just can’t do it...

I agree with you. One of the shops I work with just crushed a T-Bird "SuperCoupe" that had relatively minor body damage and needed its blower rebuilt, a very restorable and complete Range Rover, and a Jag XJ8 that was bought for the engine. Had I known in advance, I would have saved them (the EFI on the Rover was toast, but she was old enough that a carb retrofit would have had her running again, legally under the local emissions regs, and I have a complete top-end for a non-supercharged Ford V6 fitted to a slightly earlier 'Bird).

These three cars had thousands of dollars worth of excellent parts, and brought only chump-change as scrap. There are even Jag and Rover-specific yards here that would have at least seen the parts go to saving other vehicles, but the shop management just wanted to see them gone "today", with zero effort.

And...the fact is, most of the "mechanics" employed by this facility are incapable of actually diagnosing or repairing anything (the comeback rate is staggering, and is invariably met with excuses rather than admitting incompetence on the part of most of the staff), but they should be entirely competent to disassemble junkers.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[blunc]

for all the advice given in this thread... it's great that the people here participate.

some advice in this thread (seems to me) has been spot on, and some may not have been the quickest path to the original poster's answer/solution.

the differing opinions (and subsequent back and forth) merely muddy the waters.

I hope Cale has some decent in person help to guide him to the decision on whether the engine is suitable to his purpose.

[randyc]

Hmmm, could be a number of things.   If I have the car jacked up, I might try to cross the terminals of the starter with a screwdriver to see if the starter would kick over.   A SAFER method might be to remove the starter and have it checked locally.  Or to put power to it on the bench.  I gave up on an entire project once, thinking the motor was the culprit and it turned out to be the starter.  Wish I had THAT ONE back... Young and dumb...

If the starter checks out then it's an electrical issue.   Mice could have eaten the wires from the ignition switch.   Advance Auto used to offer a remote starter thing - very unsafe by today's standars probably.  Clamp the wires to the appropriate places and squeeze it - had two big copper contacts - yes it would spark.  But it did what you're wanting to do, IF you can get to the appropriate wires under the hood or car.  I used to live and breathe MOPAR and they aren't too complicated, even up into the 80s.  Not as easy to "jump" as a Ford with the solenoid on the fender, but not too hard either.   

And oh yeah, can you turn the motor at the crankshaft?  To know that it isn't locked up or too stuiff for a starter motor to turn?  Take the plugs out, do as others instructed.   

Carb isn't even important until you can get the starter to work.  You can pour gas down it's throat to keep it running, if it will fire.  Or a ketchup squeeze bottle is my favorite I've seen on the reality shows.  You can rebuild the carb  after you hear it speak.  Don't try to start car to run before making sure it has oil.  Some water is nice for any length of running time.  

And you can be serioulsy injured doing any of the things I have suggested.   I am sorta old skool and learned a lot of things the hard way.    

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by randyc
clarification.

[randyc]

And the lean burn ignition can be replaced by a points distributor, coil, and ballast resistor I think.   Had to do that to my 84 Dodge truck once.  May be more parts involved that than though.   Long time ago.  It will crank until the battery dies with NO firing whatsoever.  Parked it one night, next morning would not start.  Checked everything and the lean burn was the problem.  probably fancier better ways now though.  That was probably 25 years ago.

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 hours ago, randyc said:

And the lean burn ignition can be replaced by a points distributor, coil, and ballast resistor I think...

Yup.

The better option these days is a complete electronic distributor that uses GM HEI guts. Less than $100, one-wire hookup. I put one in my '89 GMC after the computer controlled ignition and EFI went away. Cheap Summit brand, 2 years and still going strong. And modules and caps are available just about everywhere.

If the engine checks out good, he'll probably want to replace the carb with something that isn't jetted for emissions, too.

The cam that's in the thing also most likely has pointy little low-performance lobes and emissions valve-event timing too. Again, if the rest of the engine checks out solid, a change of cam and lifters would be wise (always replace flat-tappet (non-roller) lifters when you replace a cam, and be CERTAIN to use a break-in oil with plenty of ZDDP). It's also wise to run a ZDDP-containing oil in general service on any old flat-tappet engines. Shell Rotella-T used to be a go-to, but I haven't checked its formulation lately.

Edited May 23, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Dave Ambrose]

I wonder if the easiest thing to do would be to run a stout wire from the starter solenoid over to the positive battery terminal? That's basically what we used to do with the remote starter switches.

[randyc]

Make sure you secure a starter on the bench if you decide to test in that manner - those things like to jump when the power goes to them.  LOL  And be ready for a goodly spark.  

[blunc]

On 5/23/2018 at 2:32 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Yup.

The better option these days is a complete electronic distributor that uses GM HEI guts. Less than $100, one-wire hookup. I put one in my '89 GMC after the computer controlled ignition and EFI went away. Cheap Summit brand, 2 years and still going strong. And modules and caps are available just about everywhere.

(snip)

That's interesting to know, I hadn't heard of that retrofit. I bet the trigger circuit in the standard electronic mopar distributors could be used with GM HEI modules (pre-computer).

I have an HEI ignition module and coil hooked up to the the electronic distributor on the 2.6liter Ford engine I put in my TR4. Runs great, never any problem with spark.

[426 pack]

I had talked to the previous owner of the car the other day and he said that there was just a small wire that was disconnected somewhere on the engine bay that caused the ignition not to work. So I spent a little while under the hood and found it and I am hoping to fire the car up this week (the weather has been bad and I got a job so I have been very busy)

He also mentioned that he had the car running a few years ago.

[426 pack]

Today I got the car to turn over. The reason that it didn’t fire up is because it is missing plug wires 4&6 and a bad battery.

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by 426 pack