Poor quality BMF

[Steamboat]

Is anyone else getting poor quality Bare Metal Foil these days?  It hardly sticks any more, especially on a polished surface.

Is there a better substitute?  I have a Molotow pen, but I don't think it's as shiny as BMF.

[crazyjim]

Just used BMF on a Monte Carlo yesterday with no issues.  I keep BMF stored in a ziplock bag and then into a refrigerator.  This latest sheet I used is at least a year old.

[Steamboat]

 

 

1 hour ago, crazyjim said:

Just used BMF on a Monte Carlo yesterday with no issues.  I keep BMF stored in a ziplock bag and then into a refrigerator.  This latest sheet I used is at least a year old.

That's a good idea.  Come to think of it, I'm storing it in my garage, which is about 90 degrees and 90% humidity.

[yh70]

4 hours ago, Steamboat said:

Is anyone else getting poor quality Bare Metal Foil these days?  It hardly sticks any more, especially on a polished surface.

Is there a better substitute?  I have a Molotow pen, but I don't think it's as shiny as BMF.

yes they are..i been hearing of bad BMF running around . they must have been a bad batch or u got some that very old..the Molotow is it now days..its the nearest thing to chrome u gonna find..remember to shake the heck out of it..

[Steamboat]

My first sheet came from the bad batch. Bare Metal replaced it for me for no charge, but the second sheet is no better.  It still has virtually no adhesion.

I am only having this problem with the Ultra Bright Chrome. I have Matte Aluminum and Gold and they both work well.

Maybe they changed the formula to make it cheaper now that there is competition......

[crazyjim]

Ultra bright chrome is probably your problem.  You should be using the NEW and improved version.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, crazyjim said:

Ultra bright chrome is probably your problem.  You should be using the NEW and improved version.

Yup, that's your problem.

The Ultra Bright chrome has never been much good for anything.

Get the "New Improved" stuff and you will have much better luck.

I've been using the original & new improved BMF for 30 years or more & I've never had adhesion issues with it.

The only occasional problem is that I'll get a sheet that starts to crack in places.

But in that case, it's usually a pretty simple operation to just cut around the cracked areas & still use nearly all of the sheet.

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, yh70 said:

Molotow is it now days..its the nearest thing to chrome u gonna find..remember to shake the heck out of it..

I still don't have much faith in the Molotow chrome for external trim.

Nobody really knows how well it will hold up over time, especially if used on areas of the model that get some handling.

I use it for touch up & things like interior parts that are not easily foiled, but I would like someone to explain to me how you can get a nice clean, straight line on something like a side spear without masking it all off.

BMF was invented as a much more realistic & easier alternative to painting trim.

When using the Molotow pens, you're basically going back to "painting" your trim with a shinier paint.

I asked for some photos a while back on a different thread of some side spears or other long trim on a model done with the pens & an explanation of how it was done & have never received a response.

Seems to me that you would need a perfectly steady hand to get a perfectly straight line with these pens, just as you did back in the days of Testors chrome silver paint.

 

Steve

[Steamboat]

Thanks guys.   I just ordered some regular chrome.  Hopefully this will solve the problem and salvage my build!

[crazyjim]

Or use BMF to mask off for the chrome pen.

[fiatboy]

I have the BMF 'New Improved Chrome'.  I have big problems with getting it to adhere.  AND I have found 'Microscale Micro Metal Foil Adhesive'.  Unfortunately I have not tried it yet, so I can't say if it works.  It cost me $4.59.

[StevenGuthmiller]

8 hours ago, fiatboy said:

  I have big problems with getting it to adhere.

Well, I don't know what to say, other than what I said to Bill.

Been using the stuff for decades, & a lot of it!

Just guessing, I would say that over the past 30 years, I have used at least as many sheets, or more, of BMF, & I have never had an instance where I had adhesion issues.

As a matter of fact, I generally have real problems removing pieces to fix an occasional mistake!

Try another sheet.

If you still have issues, it's not the product, it's an application problem.

 

Steve

[Snake45]

9 hours ago, fiatboy said:

I have the BMF 'New Improved Chrome'.  I have big problems with getting it to adhere.  AND I have found 'Microscale Micro Metal Foil Adhesive'.  Unfortunately I have not tried it yet, so I can't say if it works.  It cost me $4.59.

You probably won't be able to use the MS MFA on BMF, but it will work great on common kitchen foil. I use it all the time. 

[fiatboy]

Oh, an application problem!  OK, I get it! (Just kidding, LOL).          And Snake, what is the (thinnest) kitchen foil you use?  And do you, or have you, used it for "foil-casting', you know, for casting images (in CA glue) of badges on model car bodies?  Thanks for the input.

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, fiatboy said:

Oh, an application problem!  OK, I get it! (Just kidding, LOL).          And Snake, what is the (thinnest) kitchen foil you use?  And do you, or have you, used it for "foil-casting', you know, for casting images (in CA glue) of badges on model car bodies?  Thanks for the input.

I use the generic stuff or Walmart, it's pretty much the same. Name brand like Reynold wrap is thicker, but also has its uses. And yes, I've made foil-copy emblems with it. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, fiatboy said:

Oh, an application problem!  OK, I get it! (Just kidding, LOL).

What I mean by that Jeff, is that the surface that you are putting it on makes a huge difference of how well it will stick.

If there are any residues from waxes, etc. you will have problems.

If the surface is not exceptionally smooth and shiny, there could be issues as well.

Likewise, due to the manufacturing process, about a half an inch on either edge of the sheet has poor adhesive properties also, so if you're trying to use it from the factory edge, don't.

I've been hearing people complain about adhesion problems off and on for a while now, and it's hard for me to relate to it because I have never seen this problem.

Just trying to offer solutions, and I really try to convince people that this is a very minuscule exception & not the rule & not to give up on it.

you're really going to have a problem trying to find another solution that works as well as BMF.

 

Steve

[Snake45]

5 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I've been hearing people complain about adhesion problems off and on for a while now, and it's hard for me to relate to it because I have never seen this problem.

Just trying to offer solutions, and I really try to convince people that this is a very minuscule exception & not the rule & not to give up on it.

you're really going to have a problem trying to find another solution that works as well as BMF.

Steve

Well I've had the problem, too, Steve, on more than one sheet. Also had the one where the stuff just cracks and falls apart and is impossible to get off the sheet and use in any way. So I can relate to the complaints. 

I will grant you that when BMF works as advertised, there's nothing better. (I've personally had spectacular results with it.) Occasional problems might be be acceptable if I had a LHS that stocked the stuff and would cheerfully exchange a bad sheet for a good one with no more trouble than a drive across town. But combine the high price of the product, the trouble I have to go to to get it, AND the high percentage of failure I've personally experienced., and you can see why I've developed workarounds involving household foil and MS MFA, Silver Sharpies, Molotov, and yes even old school Testor Chrome Silver. 

So if BMF has worked for you and IS working for you, then good for you, but please don't put down those of us who are taking other paths. We might have good reasons.

[Snake45]

On 6/7/2018 at 1:01 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

I asked for some photos a while back on a different thread of some side spears or other long trim on a model done with the pens & an explanation of how it was done & have never received a response.

Steve, tell me what you think of the side trim and window trim on this '56 Bel Air. 

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Snake45 said:

Well I've had the problem, too, Steve, on more than one sheet. Also had the one where the stuff just cracks and falls apart and is impossible to get off the sheet and use in any way. So I can relate to the complaints. 

I will grant you that when BMF works as advertised, there's nothing better. (I've personally had spectacular results with it.) Occasional problems might be be acceptable if I had a LHS that stocked the stuff and would cheerfully exchange a bad sheet for a good one with no more trouble than a drive across town. But combine the high price of the product, the trouble I have to go to to get it, AND the high percentage of failure I've personally experienced., and you can see why I've developed workarounds involving household foil and MS MFA, Silver Sharpies, Molotov, and yes even old school Testor Chrome Silver. 

So if BMF has worked for you and IS working for you, then good for you, but please don't put down those of us who are taking other paths. We might have good reasons.

I'm not trying to put anyone down, I'm just wondering where all of these sudden issues with BMF have come from, and why.

You might possibly want to direct your displeasure with the product towards your LHS.

That seems to me to be the common thread to your issues.

Perhaps he's selling old product, or possibly there may be shipping or storage problems.

In the past 10 years, I've bought one sheet that had a cracking issue, & that was the only sheet that I bought at a LHS.

The rest have all been ordered on line & I've had zero issues.

Granted, there is more than one way to skin a cat, & my intention is not to deny anybody their right to use any method they see fit, but In my opinion & in my fairly extensive experience with this product, I have yet to see a method or material that works better, and I hate to see people just abandon one of the greatest advancements in our hobby because of a few bad experiences.

But, that being said, it's no skin off of my behind, so it matters little to me.

I'm just trying to offer some information pertaining to my experience with this product, and for me, it's been nothing but good.

I will always recommend it highly!

 

Steve

Edited June 10, 2018 by StevenGuthmiller

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Snake45 said:

Steve, tell me what you think of the side trim and window trim on this '56 Bel Air.

Well, I will be honest an blunt and say that it is very straight and well done, but it doesn't look a lot like chrome to me.

I don't want to offend you, but you asked for my opinion.

Was it done with the Molotow pen, paint or a Sharpie?

 

Steve

Edited June 10, 2018 by StevenGuthmiller

[MrObsessive]

I've pretty much stopped buying BMF from the hobby shops in the past couple years due to the troubles described above. Since then, I've bought directly online from them and if there's been an issue (there hasn't), I can talk to them directly and get another sheet.

4 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Granted, there is more than one way to skin a cat, & my intention is not to deny anybody their right to use any method they see fit, but In my opinion & in my fairly extensive experience with this product, I have yet to see a method or material that works better, and I hate to see people just abandon one of the greatest advancements in our hobby because of a few bad experiences.

Steve

That pretty much sums it up for me. BMF is probably one of if not THE best thing to come along for model detailing ever! One just has to PRACTICE using it, and if you've got a bad sheet either let the  LHS know about it, or call the company directly and let them know.

BTW, I've never resorted to putting BMF in the refrigerator or any such thing. I seriously doubt that BMF Co. refrigerates their product, nor is the stuff brought on refrigerated trucks. 

I've had sheets last literally for years in the distant past, with no cracking believe it or not.

I was told by someone in the know that one reason you might see "rippling" or a stippled effect on the sheet is how the adhesive may have been applied in the process. Someone may have put it on too heavy, and no amount of burnishing will get rid of the stippling. Best to let BMF Co. know about it and get a replacement sheet. For the cost of $10 which includes shipping, I think it's the better route to go with no drama included with the LHS which may not want to replace the sheets.

Just my never to be humble opinion.

[ranma]

I also had the low stick BMF, Bought it online even was sent a replacement that was the same way. Ever since Hobby lobby started carrying Molotow Chrome I have been using them on my builds. All The Chrome trim was done with 2 mm Molotow Chrome.

[ranma]

I even used those pens on a die cast '58 impala

Edited June 10, 2018 by ranma

[Snake45]

10 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Well, I will be honest an blunt and say that it is very straight and well done, but it doesn't look a lot like chrome to me.

I don't want to offend you, but you asked for my opinion.

Was it done with the Molotow pen, paint or a Sharpie?

 

Steve

It's Testor Chrome Silver, airbrushed BEFORE the main paint and masked with my homebrew liquid mask, applied by hand with a brush. Seemed like the best way to do this particular job. 

I thought it did a pretty good job of portraying the trim on the real car, which wasn't SUPER bright chrome. 

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Snake45

[jchrisf]

20 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

It's Testor Chrome Silver, airbrushed BEFORE the main paint and masked with my homebrew liquid mask, applied by hand with a brush. Seemed like the best way to do this particular job. 

I thought it did a pretty good job of portraying the trim on the real car, which wasn't SUPER bright chrome. 

 

It doesn't match the chrome on the bumper but neither does the real car.  I think it looks great and just like the real thing.  Perfect execution.

What is the recipe for your homebrew liquid mask?  That turned out to be a perfect masking job.