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shoopdog

Residue from decal solution-UPDATE

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Posted (edited)

I am in the process of decaling my Hurst Olds and saw I'm getting splotches on my black finish. I'm using Model Master solution for complex surfaces. In my photos you can see underneath the windshield pillar and front of the fender. I've tried wiping off with clean moist cloth and have tried a small amount of isopropyl alcohol mixed with water but it won't clean up. Has it eaten into my finish? Black paint is Model Master laquer and Tamiya clear with Future on top of that. Everything was well cured and solution didn't sit on the paint for more than 10 minutes. Can anybody recommend a solution to remove these spots? I hate to continue decaling with my decal set and I have a lot more to go?

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Edited by shoopdog

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2 hours ago, shoopdog said:

...have tried a small amount of isopropyl alcohol mixed with water but it won't clean up. Has it eaten into my finish? Black paint is Model Master laquer and Tamiya clear with Future on top of that. 

Iso alcohol in any concentration is death on Future (so is ammonia and anything with ammonia in it, such as Windex). Full strength alcohol will strip Testor lacquer and I'm not sure but suspect it will strip Tamiya clear too. You might try recoating with Future. A new coat might fill in the damage and make it disappear, but I can't promise you it will. Worth a try, though. Especially since the only other thing I can think of is strip back to bare plastic and start over. 

This is why I don't use Future much anymore. It's way too fragile, and there's little if anything you can do to fix it. 

Sorry I don't have any happier advice. 

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Decal setting solutions can soften and attack Future. Why didn't' you wait until after decaling to apply the clear coat?  How about applying another coat of Future after decaling to blend things in?

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Try some warm water on a soft cloth.  Make sure all your coats are dry. 

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u should have did decals before u used the future..hope for the best and apply another coat of future..

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14 hours ago, Snake45 said:

Iso alcohol in any concentration is death on Future (so is ammonia and anything with ammonia in it, such as Windex). Full strength alcohol will strip Testor lacquer and I'm not sure but suspect it will strip Tamiya clear too. You might try recoating with Future. A new coat might fill in the damage and make it disappear, but I can't promise you it will. Worth a try, though. Especially since the only other thing I can think of is strip back to bare plastic and start over. 

This is why I don't use Future much anymore. It's way too fragile, and there's little if anything you can do to fix it. 

Sorry I don't have any happier advice. 

Thanks Snake, looks like I got lucky with alcohol. Will give the last coat of future a try after last decal.

10 hours ago, peteski said:

Decal setting solutions can soften and attack Future. Why didn't' you wait until after decaling to apply the clear coat?  How about applying another coat of Future after decaling to blend things in?

 

3 hours ago, yh70 said:

u should have did decals before u used the future..hope for the best and apply another coat of future..

I have used this procedure many times in the past without any problems but this will probably be the last. All the others have been light colored though.

Hopefully the final coat will help. Ten decals to go !

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Just another thought here:  Seeing the pics of your model, and such decals that were applied, those were going on over fairly smooth surfaces, with no "raised" details?  If so, WHY even think of using anything as a decal setting solution?  Beginning with the legendary Solvaset (which was first marketed in the middle-to-late 1950's) which gained popularity with model railroaders who were building, painting and decaling RR cars and such, with incredibly sharp raised and/or recessed details on them.   Solvaset is little more than Isopropyl Alcohol, which will soften the lacquer-based decal film, and is intended to allow the decal to "snuggle down" over raised and/or recessed surface detailing, which the water used to dissolve the gelatin adhesive (yes, water-slide decal adhesive is nothing more sophisticated than unflavored gelatin, same stuff we get sweetened and flavored -- "There's always room for Jell-O"!!).  While nearly 100% pure isopropyl alcohol will soften and strip most any hobby paint from a surface, lower concentrations tend not to do that.  For example, rather than buying any of the pre-packaged decal setting solutions, I've used simply 70% rubbing alcohol since at least the late 1960's (even have used a Kleenex soaked in aftershave lotion in  a pinch on occasion!).   Unfortunately,  a great many modelers use decal setting solutions of various brands on decals that are being applied to smooth surfaces having little if any raised or recessed detail, apparently in the mistaken belief that this will increase the adhesion of the decal, which it doesn't--that's the job of the gelatin adhesive.

The problem lies not with any residue from the decal setting solution you used, but rather what the solution did to the "Pledge With Future Shine" you used as a clear coat--I'm a crew leader for a custodial crew where I work, and the floor strippers we use contain Isopropyl alcohol and believe  me, that stuff will soften water-born acrylic floor polish in perhaps a minute or so off of Terrazzo, even off of vinyl floor tile.  My advice:  First, clear coat, if you prefer using whatever type/brand,  should be the very last thing applied, AFTER decals are on, and the gelatin adhesive is dry (bear in mind, it has to evaporate from around the edges of the decal, as water vapor will not penetrate the decal itself in order to evaporate---let the project sit for at least a couple of days after the last decal is on, THEN clear coat over the entire surface.

 

Art

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Posted (edited)

Good info there, thanks Art.

I guess I've been using decal set solely for the reason I assumed it allowed me more time to slide the decal into correct position before adhering to the surface.

Edited by shoopdog

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Posted (edited)

There is Microscale "set" and "sol".  "Set" is  acetic-acid based (smells like vinegar) and is the mild solution which should allow you more time for repositioning the decal.  "Sol" is the stronger stuff Art mentioned and it smells like alcohol.   That should be used when the are extreme raised or depressed surfaces under the decal.  Did your solution smell like vinegar or alcohol?

If you want some slippery liquid to allow you extra positioning time then use your saliva. Seriously  - it works well. Just don't eat anything like chocolate for a some time before using your spit. You need it clean and clear. :D

Art: I have heard or read somewhere that the decal adhesive is actually dextrose, a type of sugar, not gelatin.  Just lick your decal paper to verify. :)

Edited by peteski

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7 hours ago, peteski said:

There is Microscale "set" and "sol".  "Set" is  acetic-acid based (smells like vinegar) and is the mild solution which should allow you more time for repositioning the decal.  "Sol" is the stronger stuff Art mentioned ant it smells like alcohol.   That should be used when the are extreme raised or depressed surfaces under the decal.  Did your solution smell like vinegar or alcohol?

If you want some slippery liquid to allow you extra positioning time then use your saliva. Seriously  - it works well. Just don't eat anything like chocolate for a some time before using your spit. You need it clean and clear. :D

Art: I have heard or read somewhere that the decal adhesive is actually dextrose, a type of sugar, not gelatin.  Just lick your decal paper to verify. :)

Gelatin is what, at least, was used as the adhesive for Decals--going all the way back to the invention the stuff over a century ago.  And guess what?  We are both right and both a bit incorrect!   Animal hide glue (Gelatin) has been used,  modern decal adhesive starts with a layer of glucose (sugar) to give the decal the ability to slide easily into place, with dextrose (corn sugar) on top of that, to increase the adhesion!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_slide_decal

Art

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First off I like to thank everyone for there comments and suggestions. I have applied my second coat of Future and the imperfections from the decal solvent have disappeared. 

Now I just need to post in the wanted section for some upper red stripes seeing as how I messed mine up.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the followup - I'm glad things worked out for you.  I figured that if the problem was with the clear coat (Future), another coat might smooth things out.  You had nothing to lose. . .

Edited by peteski

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22 hours ago, shoopdog said:

First off I like to thank everyone for there comments and suggestions. I have applied my second coat of Future and the imperfections from the decal solvent have disappeared. 

I thought there was an even chance that would happen. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. B)

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FWIW, I always used distilled water for decals.  Too many times tap water left residual behind.  Not saying that was the cause in this case.

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31 minutes ago, Warren D said:

FWIW, I always used distilled water for decals.  Too many times tap water left residual behind.  Not saying that was the cause in this case.

I like this tip.

 

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