Malco gasser fuel/cooling detail

[Farmboy]

I've been looking for quite a while on how the fuel and cooling system was arranged on the Malco gasser, either the blue or red mustang.  I've had no luck.  All  of the photos I've seen (1:1, die cast) show lines, but incompletely.  Does anyone have a diagram of how the fuel/cooling systems were actually set up? 

[afx]

 

[Farmboy]

Thank you for the link but I’ve already filtered  through those 4 pages of garbage and nonsensical ramblings and it’s left me no further ahead.  For instance, what is the function of the ‘near’ line that goes down on the left...is this a cooling crossover?  How is the rad/fuel tank separated?  Which ones  are coolant or fuel?  Return lines?  The photos only hint at where the other ends may connect, let alone why.  Other models I’ve seen don’t do much with plumbing and I would doubt the accuracy.  Oh well.  Thank you, but the search continues...

[afx]

Look through the Drag Racing section.  There are numerous highly detailed builds that can help you understand how to plumb these engines. Here are two I would suggest.  It does take effort and research to add the level of detail you're after.   

Additionally drag racer typically don't run cooling system per se unless the class rules require them to be in place.

 

[vamach1]

Maybe someone has posted pics of the real car which is in the Petersen museum in Los Angeles.  I could not find any recents pics with the front end off.  Kind of sad to see it hidden in the basement.

 

Edited September 14, 2018 by vamach1

[Farmboy]

Afx —. It’s a gasser.  Vintage at that.

vamach —. Next stop is to contact Peterson museum to see if additional pics (beyond what’s already online) can be obtained.

thanx everybody

[afx]

I understand it's a gasser.  Apparently your looking for the "Official Malco Gasser Mustang Fuel and Cooling System Plumbing Schematic" - I apologize for wasting your time.

[Farmboy]

13 hours ago, afx said:

Additionally drag racer typically don't run cooling system per se unless the class rules require them to be in place

Glad you knew it was a gasser.  

The Malco Gasser has/had quite a unique fuel and cooling system arrangement, that's what I'm attempting to duplicate.  An "Official Malco Gasser Mustang Fuel and Cooling System Plumbing Schematic" would be a worthy piece o' work.  If I do manage to find enough info to do a relatively accurate rendition of the set up, you can be sure I will post it.  And I'll probably call it The  "Un-Official Malco Gasser Mustang Fuel and Cooling System Plumbing Schematic".

Edited September 14, 2018 by Farmboy

[Casey]

1 hour ago, Farmboy said:

The Malco Gasser has/had quite a unique fuel and cooling system arrangement

No, it doesn't have a typical cooling setup. Fortunately, there are enough reference images available in the web that you should be able to identify each visible part and determine if it's a fuel pump, water pump, and after that, where each water and fuel lines connects.

 

Considering the Mustang was born from the '33 Willys Coupe, you should be able to notice many parts have carried over, thus, you can also use images of the '33 for plumbing reference:

 

[Force]

I have gone through all my "Ohio" George car pictures on my hard drive but haven't found any good pictures that explains the fuel and cooling system in an easy way on the 67 Malco Gasser Mustang, but the car didn't have a regular radiator, it looks like a kind of combined fuel tank/ coolant overflow tank in front of the engine wich holds fuel and water, the water was circulated through the engine and connected to the tank with small diameter tubes and hoses wich goes in where the water pump normaly sits on the engine block, I don't think he used a water pump on the car, at least the engine didn't have one.
Another thing I noticed is that this tank was changed and the version of the Malco Gasser that exist today has a different tank from the one used on the early version and he used the same setup on the 69 Mr Gasket Gasser Mustang.
Here are some of the pictures of this area I have saved in my files over the years.

First the early version of the tank/radiator wich is in the MPC kit.

And the late version as it is today, now it's a combined fuel/water tank.

The fuel/water tank on the Mr Gasket Gasser before the turbo version.

I hope they will show what you need...or at least give you a hint.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Force

[Farmboy]

Casey, Force;  thanx for the photos!  some are are new to me and will hopefully add a little more clarity to the system, thank you much!  Gassers are a favorite of mine, and the cooling/fuel delivery 'tank' on this gasser is different enough that it's worth the research to try to get it as right as I can.  Armed with these and what I have I think it's time to try drawing out an 'imagineered' assembly and go from there.   thanx again!

[Force]

I'm glad if could be of any help to you.

[vamach1]

A guy from Sweden with the answers no less.  Is this a great website or what?

[Farmboy]

....and of all the photos and links I had pertaining to the vehicles - he still had some stuff I hadn't seen before.  Ya gotta love it!   Thanx again to all that took the time to help out.  I'm sure I'm not alone in my quest so  I'll post a diagram/schematic of the fuel/cooling system when I have it done for those interested.   I can't say it'll be 100% accurate, but close enough for home cookin'. 

[nitro norman]

I don't know how well detailed the GMP diecast Malco Gasser is, but if you could find someone who has one, maybe that would help, good luck.

[Farmboy]

norm, I've posted a query on the diecast forum hoping for that very thing.  thanx for the input.

[Force]

11 hours ago, vamach1 said:

A guy from Sweden with the answers no less.  Is this a great website or what?

 

8 hours ago, Farmboy said:

....and of all the photos and links I had pertaining to the vehicles - he still had some stuff I hadn't seen before.  Ya gotta love it!   Thanx again to all that took the time to help out.  I'm sure I'm not alone in my quest so  I'll post a diagram/schematic of the fuel/cooling system when I have it done for those interested.   I can't say it'll be 100% accurate, but close enough for home cookin'. 

Well I save reference pictures on every model I plan to build myself and the "Ohio" George cars are among them.
I have quite a few pictures of many subjects in my library by now and I like to do research as a part of this hobby, but I don't remember where I got every picture I just save them in folders on my hard drive when I find them and I often stumble upon them unexpectedly.
So I try to help other modelers out if I can whenever I can.

[vamach1]

3 minutes ago, Force said:

 

Well I save reference pictures on every model I plan to build myself and the "Ohio" George cars are among them.
I have quite a few pictures of many subjects in my library by now and I like to do research as a part of this hobby, but I don't remember where I got every picture I just save them in folders on my hard drive when I find them and I often stumble upon them unexpectedly.
So I try to help other modelers out if I can whenever I can.

That's great.  I'm not that organized so I try to post pics that I take in person before I forget.  See the Allsport Mustang pics I just posted if you're interested in 90's TransAm Mustangs.

[Force]

I'll check them out.
Here is a couple of pictures I found of the GMP model just now that can be helpful.

 

[Farmboy]

As best as I can tell there is no return or drain line from the injectors on the 1st generation build which is what I'm modeling but I think I will add one anyway just to busy it up a bit.  I spent some time drawing it out and will note this in the post.  I do not claim 100% accuracy as it is a bit confusing between photos and actual car years.  I'm not building a replica as mine will be a pearl white without the Malco decals, but the up front plumbing is important.  I'm planning a tut on the engine build for anyone interested.....

[Force]

Yeah you are right, the SOHC engine in the early version of the Malco Gasser Mustang doesn't seem to have a return line from the metering valve at the injector on top of the blower.
But there has to be a bypass return line somewhere in the system as you tune these mechanical fuel systems with how much fuel you send back to the tank, otherwise the engine will drown as the fuel pump delivers more than the engine needs to run, so maybe he just used a bypass return only from the fuel pump on the early versions of the SOHC engines in his cars because the Malco 33 Willys Coupe and the early 427 SOHC powered Mr Gasket Gasser Mustang doesn't have a return from the metering valve either.
At least on a "Fuel" car they have return lines from several places in the system, but they use larger pumps and a whole lot more fuel than a Gasser does.

[nitro norman]

Lot of great info on here. Those pics of the diecast provided by Force helped me a lot. I built thiis kit as a kid when it came out in the 60's. I know I can do a much better job now. I have a couple of questions. Is the drive shaft and rear end chrome , like the 33 Willys and also, is there an off the shelf paint to match this car or will it have to be a custom mix. I thought about trying a mix of Testors laquer , ice blue and the silver. Anyway that was a beautiful car and I want to do it justice.

[Farmboy]

ok, here's what I've been able to put together from photos received and pics I also had on file.  It's pretty simple, but it was a real bear to find lines that went from point a to b.  Later model Malco's look like they had an electric pump (?) between the newer rad and engine.  I ignored this.  I also added a fuel return line from the valve on the blower.  This was not on earlier generations but it could have been.

The magneto is ok where it is, ignore the note.  A gear cover is all that’s really needed if so inclined.  The water lines in early versions were black hoses, later changed to narrow diameter metal tubing.  I did not see a water pump

There appears to be two oil lines (not in the diagrams) entering the lower front corner of the heads.  I'm not sure on this so did not include them.

oh, I called this the Un-Official Malco Gasser Mustang Fuel and Cooling System Plumbing Schematic".

If there's issue or bad info in the diagram, let me know.  I will amend it if necessary.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Farmboy

[Force]

The magneto already is at the front on the left side on the timing chain cover driven of the fuel pump drive on the Malco Gasser.

[Farmboy]

The mag is driven by pump gearing but it’s beside the fuel pump on the engine  held there by a bracket on the 1:1.  The kit has the mag sitting right on top of the pump.