How in the world do you a decent paint job with Duplicolor paint?

[Fat Brian]

I have tried for years to use Duplicolor paint and I just cannot get even passable results from it. When I use thin coats its flat and uneven looking and when I use wetter coats it wrinkles as it dries and ends up about the texture of your finger print. I'm at my wits end with it but I have a project I need to do on my real car so I really need to figure this out. If y'all have any tips for me I'm all ears.

[Ace-Garageguy]

It pretty much HAS to be shot wet to get a nice gloss with minimal o'peel...but if it's "wrinkling", the only things that should cause that are 1) incompatibility with your primer (most likely cause), or 2) extreme crazing of the increasingly soft plastics in today's kits.

I love Duplicolor because for me, it's almost always a guaranteed good finish...but you HAVE to shoot it over a solvent-resistant primer, like the companion Duplicolor products.

This is Duplicolor rattlecan shot wet over Duplicolor's primer. No sanding or buffing yet in this shot...

 

[Fat Brian]

37 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

It pretty much HAS to be shot wet to get a nice gloss with minimal o'peel...but if it's "wrinkling", the only things that should cause that are 1) incompatibility with your primer (most likely cause), or 2) extreme crazing of the increasingly soft plastics in today's kits.

I love Duplicolor because for me, it's almost always a guaranteed good finish...but you HAVE to shoot it over a solvent-resistant primer, like the companion Duplicolor products.

This is Duplicolor rattlecan shot wet over Duplicolor's primer. No sanding or buffing yet in this shot...

 

I'm trying the Duplicolor primer now. I usually go without primer since rattle cans put such heavy coats on, it works with Testors and Krylon but evidently not Duplicolor.

[Belugawrx]

It's all in the nozzle and can pressure,... Duplicolor rules as far as can paint goes,..I think

Airbrushing,... whole other sport,..

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

Brian...I just read your post again. You're having problems on a REAL car project? Are you spraying over existing paint? Duplicolor over an enamel will quite possibly wrinkle, and it may over other substrates as well.

Let us know exactly what you're trying to get done.

[StevenGuthmiller]

The wrinkling on plastic is very likely the plastic crazing.

The answer is good primer, and plenty of it!

I use virtually nothing but automotive lacquers, including Duplicolor, and yes, there is the potential for issues with any hot paint used on plastic.

But if you do it right, you will have no issues.

My "right" way of doing it, (and yes, there are many others) is to use as much primer as possible without hiding detail.

In order to ensure that you will not have crazing problems when you shoot those "wet" coats of paint.

 

My most recent '60 Imperial project has one coat each of Testors gray & white primer, followed by 4 more coats of Duplicolor white primer.

 

Now.........put your hand to your ear & listen intently, because you will inevitably hear warnings of how "too many coats of primer, paint & clear will hide all of your detail".

Lacquer paints lay down very thinly.

You will be surprised at how many coats you will be able to use, even with a rattle can.

You tell me how much detail is hidden on this paint job which consists of 6 primer coats, 3 color coats & 4 clear coats, all shot with spray cans.

And, to top it off, the color is a can of Duplicolor touch-up paint from probably 25 years ago!

 

Steve

 

 

[Deuces]

Nice job!!!!!........ ??

[High octane]

16 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

The wrinkling on plastic is very likely the plastic crazing.

The answer is good primer, and plenty of it!

I use virtually nothing but automotive lacquers, including Duplicolor, and yes, there is the potential for issues with any hot paint used on plastic.

But if you do it right, you will have no issues.

My "right" way of doing it, (and yes, there are many others) is to use as much primer as possible without hiding detail.

In order to ensure that you will not have crazing problems when you shoot those "wet" coats of paint.

 

My most recent '60 Imperial project has one coat each of Testors gray & white primer, followed by 4 more coats of Duplicolor white primer.

 

Now.........put your hand to your ear & listen intently, because you will inevitably hear warnings of how "too many coats of primer, paint & clear will hide all of your detail".

Lacquer paints lay down very thinly.

You will be surprised at how many coats you will be able to use, even with a rattle can.

You tell me how much detail is hidden on this paint job which consists of 6 primer coats, 3 color coats & 4 clear coats, all shot with spray cans.

And, to top it off, the color is a can of Duplicolor touch-up paint from probably 25 years ago!

 

Steve

 

 

Wow! That is beautiful!

[High octane]

I've used 17 year old Dupli-Color over Tamiya primer with good results.

[Mike 1017]

I believe in using the same primer, paint, and clearcoat  from the same manufacturer.

Tips. Put the can in hot water for a minute or so. Do a test spray.

         Make sure  that you wash the body with soap and water after each prepping stage. 

Good luck

Mike

[DiscoRover007]

I get the same frustrations OP

Id recommend switching to Tamiya or use duplicolor primer sealer over your primer before you start painting.

My biggest issue with it is that I constantly get ghost lines showing through after wet coats. Only way I can avoid it is use a basecoat of a similar color by Testors or Tamiya and shoot the duplicolor over it.

[Fat Brian]

9 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Brian...I just read your post again. You're having problems on a REAL car project? Are you spraying over existing paint? Duplicolor over an enamel will quite possibly wrinkle, and it may over other substrates as well.

Let us know exactly what you're trying to get done.

I haven't started the real car project yet, I'm going to paint the centers of my new wheels to match the body of my car. I've just never gotten good results from Duplicolor so I wanted to master the paint before messing up my rims. I shot two wet coats of my body color over Duplicolor primer on a test body last night and the finish is much more uniform but it's still just as flat as it can be. I'm going to put clear on the wheels so flat for the color is fine.

The wheel lips are machined finish with some kind of clear coat, I'm leaving them as is but want to paint the spokes which are painted. The plan is to sand the spokes with 2000 grit to knock the shine off them, mask off the lips then prime and paint the spokes and the area with the faux bolts.

[Jantrix]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Duplicolor an automotive lacquer and will usually go on flat especially in a humid environment? I sprayed Duplicolor plenty in Florida and it was always flat, but a good clear brought it out.

[Ace-Garageguy]

The "flat" effect you're getting could possibly be due to high humidity (blushing), or the object you're painting being colder than your paint (which causes moisture condensation on the paint surface, also resulting in blushing). Try rubbing your face with a fingertip (to get just a little skin oil on it), and then seeing if you can polish-out the "flatness" in a very small area with the same fingertip. If the shine comes up, that's a good indication you're dealing with blushing. 

A clear coat will alleviate the problem, but if the clear blushes, you may still have to do some light polishing.

IF you're getting blushing, the best solution is to try to do your painting when the temps are between 65 and 80F, and the humidity is below 65%.

And rather than sanding the areas on wheels you want to paint, I'd suggest carefully masking the area you don't want painted, and vigorously scrubbing the to-be-painted area with Comet, or another aggressive abrasive-type cleaner and a stiff brush. You'll have an easier time getting into all the small crevices that are impossible to reach with sandpaper.

For wheels especially, I'd recommend a "self etching" primer as well. Duplicolor makes one, and it should give you a little better adhesion.

It would be great if you can get a piece of material similar to what your wheels are made from, or a junk alloy wheel, to practice on before you shoot the real thing.

Different substrates can affect how a color coat behaves. For instance, you can often paint a plastic real-car bumper at the same time, on the same day, with the same paint, over the same primer, as you paint the fender adjacent to it...and you'll get a slightly different color, because the flakes lay down a little differently.

Likewise, painting an alloy wheel, your paint may behave differently than it does painting a model-car body.

Edited September 26, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 minutes ago, Jantrix said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Duplicolor an automotive lacquer and will usually go on flat especially in a humid environment? I sprayed Duplicolor plenty in Florida and it was always flat, but a good clear brought it out.

Yup. Good call. I address this in the post I was writing as you posted.  

[Snake45]

I used Duplicolor red on an Alumicoupe. I had moderate blushing but it polished right out and looked great. 

Tried the same can on another project, spraying it over Rustoleum red primer. Didn't have any crazing at all and it went on fairly smoothly but the blushing was moderate to heavy. I spent a LOT of time polishing it out and it looked great except for a few areas where I polished through. I decided that there was no way to touch up the burnthroughs and have it look good (sometimes you can get away with it), so, sadly, ended up stripping the paint (Easy-Off took off both the Duplicolor and the Rustoleum, no problem at all). It's awaiting a repaint now. I won't be using Duplicolor again. 

Edited September 26, 2018 by Snake45

[Fat Brian]

4 hours ago, Jantrix said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Duplicolor an automotive lacquer and will usually go on flat especially in a humid environment? I sprayed Duplicolor plenty in Florida and it was always flat, but a good clear brought it out.

 

4 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

The "flat" effect you're getting could possibly be due to high humidity (blushing), or the object you're painting being colder than your paint (which causes moisture condensation on the paint surface, also resulting in blushing). Try rubbing your face with a fingertip (to get just a little skin oil on it), and then seeing if you can polish-out the "flatness" in a very small area with the same fingertip. If the shine comes up, that's a good indication you're dealing with blushing. 

A clear coat will alleviate the problem, but if the clear blushes, you may still have to do some light polishing.

IF you're getting blushing, the best solution is to try to do your painting when the temps are between 65 and 80F, and the humidity is below 65%.

And rather than sanding the areas on wheels you want to paint, I'd suggest carefully masking the area you don't want painted, and vigorously scrubbing the to-be-painted area with Comet, or another aggressive abrasive-type cleaner and a stiff brush. You'll have an easier time getting into all the small crevices that are impossible to reach with sandpaper.

For wheels especially, I'd recommend a "self etching" primer as well. Duplicolor makes one, and it should give you a little better adhesion.

It would be great if you can get a piece of material similar to what your wheels are made from, or a junk alloy wheel, to practice on before you shoot the real thing.

Different substrates can affect how a color coat behaves. For instance, you can often paint a plastic real-car bumper at the same time, on the same day, with the same paint, over the same primer, as you paint the fender adjacent to it...and you'll get a slightly different color, because the flakes lay down a little differently.

Likewise, painting an alloy wheel, your paint may behave differently than it does painting a model-car body.

It's been very humid here lately so it's very likely the paint is blushing, I'll try lightly polishing it and see if it shines up. I'll also try to find a piece of metal to practice on to better replicate the wheels.

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

 

It's been very humid here lately so it's very likely the paint is blushing, I'll try lightly polishing it and see if it shines up. I'll also try to find a piece of metal to practice on to better replicate the wheels.

A clear coat should take care of any blushing issues if they are just minor ones due to humidity.

I had some fogging on the last two color coats & all four clear coats of the above pictured '60 Imperial.

Each successive coat eliminates the fogging below it leaving only the final coat to polish out.

Most times, I can rub some of that fog off with my finger, so it generally takes very little polishing effort to remove it.

 

Steve

[Fat Brian]

3 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

A clear coat should take care of any blushing issues if they are just minor ones due to humidity.

I had some fogging on the last two color coats & all four clear coats of the above pictured '60 Imperial.

Each successive coat eliminates the fogging below it leaving only the final coat to polish out.

Most times, I can rub some of that fog off with my finger, so it generally takes very little polishing effort to remove it.

 

Steve

Using the same brand primer did help with getting a more even coat. When I got home from work today I shot another coat and this time immediately stuck it in the oven on very low heat. This coat did dry with some shine to it so blushing is one of my major issues. Is the clear coat less susceptible to blushing than the colors are? I've never used Duplicolor clear before. 

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Fat Brian said:

Using the same brand primer did help with getting a more even coat. When I got home from work today I shot another coat and this time immediately stuck it in the oven on very low heat. This coat did dry with some shine to it so blushing is one of my major issues. Is the clear coat less susceptible to blushing than the colors are? I've never used Duplicolor clear before. 

I rarely have issues with Duplicolor clear fogging, but I did this time.

It was no problem to polish it out to a brilliant shine.

 

Steve

[Chariots of Fire]

I'm glad to hear of so many who use Duplicolor paints.  I've been using it for years and swear by it.  I also use the Duplicolor gray primer, either the filler or the ordinary primer.  Either one works well.  Several light coats of this primer works well , especially if the primer is lightly sanded between coats.  When the primer is set and ready for the finish it spray on a light coat of color just to get it to cling to corners and at edges.  Then I lay on several coats until the gloss really stays.

One thing about Duplicolor:  If you paint in humid weather expect the surface to dry flat.  However, the flat can be polished out.  

Duplicolor works well on resin castings as well.  Here are two examples.  Both are AITM castings primed and colored with Duplicolor.

[Snake45]

On 9/26/2018 at 9:30 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

A clear coat should take care of any blushing issues if they are just minor ones due to humidity.

I had some fogging on the last two color coats & all four clear coats of the above pictured '60 Imperial.

Each successive coat eliminates the fogging below it leaving only the final coat to polish out.

Most times, I can rub some of that fog off with my finger, so it generally takes very little polishing effort to remove it.

 

Steve

 

[Snake45]

On 9/26/2018 at 9:30 PM, StevenGuthmiller said:

A clear coat should take care of any blushing issues if they are just minor ones due to humidity.

I had some fogging on the last two color coats & all four clear coats of the above pictured '60 Imperial.

Each successive coat eliminates the fogging below it leaving only the final coat to polish out.

Most times, I can rub some of that fog off with my finger, so it generally takes very little polishing effort to remove it.

Steve

I just experienced some troublesome blushing. 

Testor "One Coat" lacquers. Hah, as if. Star Spangled Blue did not lay down smoothly, as it often does. Moderate orange peel. Second wetter coat did the same thing.  I have to admit this can was at least six years old. Had never used it, but there was barely enough in it for two coats on all the body parts. 

First coat of Wet Look Clear, more orange peel. Second coat, still more orange peel, and moderate blushing. This was from two different cans, one about 6 years old, the other maybe 3. 

Went and bought a fresh can of Wet Look Clear. Before spraying it, I did a "rough polish" of the body to eliminate the blushing. First coat from the new can, some orange peel, more moderate blushing. Drove on 24 hours later and laid on a second heavy, wet coat, which is somewhat smooth but heavily blushed. 

I'm in the process of polishing out the last coat of WLC. Looks okay so far, but I hadn't planned for this paint job to be NEARLY this much work, and I'm still not sure I won't screw it up somewhere and have to strip and start over. 

And for the grand finale, Star Spangled Blue isn't the color I thought it would be. I thought it would be lighter and brighter. It's an attractive dark blue, but if I'd wanted this color, I'd have just airbrushed MM Arctic Blue cut with lacquer thinner and I'd have had it polished out and DONE a week ago. 

[Tom Geiger]

I'm another Duplicolor user!

Note that some Duplicolor paints are matches to real auto colors that require a clear coat.  Those will go on flat until you add the clear coat.

I just painted a '29 Ford Phaeton body with Duplicolor beige clear coat...  it went on flat and very even.  I have clear coated it with Tamiya clear for a perfect shine. I'm not even going to try to polish it.

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Snake45 said:

I just experienced some troublesome blushing. 

Testor "One Coat" lacquers. Hah, as if. Star Spangled Blue did not lay down smoothly, as it often does. Moderate orange peel. Second wetter coat did the same thing.  I have to admit this can was at least six years old. Had never used it, but there was barely enough in it for two coats on all the body parts. 

First coat of Wet Look Clear, more orange peel. Second coat, still more orange peel, and moderate blushing. This was from two different cans, one about 6 years old, the other maybe 3. 

Went and bought a fresh can of Wet Look Clear. Before spraying it, I did a "rough polish" of the body to eliminate the blushing. First coat from the new can, some orange peel, more moderate blushing. Drove on 24 hours later and laid on a second heavy, wet coat, which is somewhat smooth but heavily blushed. 

I'm in the process of polishing out the last coat of WLC. Looks okay so far, but I hadn't planned for this paint job to be NEARLY this much work, and I'm still not sure I won't screw it up somewhere and have to strip and start over. 

And for the grand finale, Star Spangled Blue isn't the color I thought it would be. I thought it would be lighter and brighter. It's an attractive dark blue, but if I'd wanted this color, I'd have just airbrushed MM Arctic Blue cut with lacquer thinner and I'd have had it polished out and DONE a week ago. 

I stopped using Testors clear lacquers some time ago.

Nothing having to do with orange peel.

I always had pretty good luck with the leveling & shine.

My issue was cracking.

The '60 Imperial pictured above was originally painted a different color.

After finishing the paint & clear coats, (which was Testors Wet Look Clear) I noticed some mild cracking in the clear coat.

As time went on, the cracking became more and more pronounced.

After several weeks of curing & several attempts to polish out the cracks, it became obvious that it was not repairable.

The more time that passed, the worse the cracks became.

I had this same issue with at least one other build.

Since abandoning Testors clear in favor of Duplicolor clear, I have had zero issues.

I will never look back.

 

Steve