Nose to the sky gassers

[afx]

This is a very cool '55 Chevy.  Never seen a '55 Chevy cooler than this - don't you all agree?

 

[Old Nasty]

2 hours ago, afx said:

This is a very cool '55 Chevy.  Never seen a '55 Chevy cooler than this - don't you all agree?

 

Nice car but it's a '57.

[Jantrix]

11 hours ago, smhardesty said:

Make sure you build it level or nose down. Otherwise the engine runs backwards, makes the car hopscotch down the track, then flip up on it's back and spin like a turtle. ?

Heck, I'd pay to see that.

 

[afx]

9 minutes ago, Old Nasty said:

Nice car but it's a '57.

Exactly.  A gasser complies with the NHRA rules or it's not a gasser.  Doesn't mean the car isn't cool.

[Draggon]

3 hours ago, afx said:

Exactly.  A gasser complies with the NHRA rules or it's not a gasser.  Doesn't mean the car isn't cool.

This, and what Bill said. Somewhere between the internet and the folks that weren't around back then, people started mis-using the word "gasser" to indicate a raised car built in a style similar to the NHRA gas class. Add the wave of "tribute" vehicles to the mix and it's easy to see where everything got confounded. 

For a few years around 1968 folks were mimicking the gas style cars on the street. They were called highriders, and morphed into what we'd call street freaks today. 

That Volvo "Lil Crawl Along" is a British racecar if I remember correctly. So the stance is not applicable. 

[RichCostello]

9 hours ago, dodgefever said:

I presume that's partially directed at me. Why do you think it is wrong to correct misinformation?  If every post is closed to debate, what's the point of a forum?  The other thread asked for help understanding old NHRA gassers.  Posting modern builds and street freaks as examples of gassers in a reference thread is misleading at best.

You will also note that I didn't make any personal remarks about other members, I only addressed the content.

 

Not directed at you. I agree with what you said. That doesn't mean that I don't think that the cars that Steve posted can't be considered gassers. The pictures may not be from the early 60s, and the cars may not have met the rules to run in any gasser class, but some people call this style of build "gassers", and I don't have a problem with that.

These "FACT" freaks are the same ones who will disapprove of what some people consider a hot rod, or a rat rod, or a muscle car, just to demonstrate their infinite knowledge of everything with wheels.

Facts are facts(big deal), but we are rewriting the dictionary every day, and if someone wants to call these cars gassers, who's to say that they're right or wrong.

I still think that # is a pound sign, or a number sign, but I'm not going to argue with anyone because they want to call it a "hashtag".

[Ace-Garageguy]

21 minutes ago, RichCostello said:

 

These "FACT" freaks are the same ones who will disapprove of what some people consider a hot rod, or a rat rod, or a muscle car, just to demonstrate their infinite knowledge of everything with wheels.

 

You miss the point entirely, as did Mr. Hardesty by posting photos of recently built wannabes, replicas, theme cars, etc., and insisting that PERIOD gassers were built that way.

The poster in the other thread that got this all started ASKED SPECIFICALLY ABOUT CARS BUILT TO "NHRA RULES  FOR AN OLD GASSER".

He wanted to build a PERIOD CAR, HISTORICALLY CORRECT, and COMPLIANT WITH THE ACTUAL RACING RULES IN EFFECT AT THE TIME HIS BUILD REPRESENTED.

Anybody reading a bunch of ego-driven mumbo-jumbo psychobabble into answering questions regarding FACTS, and correcting MISINFORMATION is out of line.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[mike 51]

....sure gets ugly around here sometimes.

[RichCostello]

7 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

You miss the point entirely, as did Mr. Hardesty by posting photos of recently built wannabes, replicas, theme cars, etc., and insisting that PERIOD gassers were built that way.

The poster in the other thread that got this all started ASKED SPECIFICALLY ABOUT CARS BUILT TO "NHRA RULES  FOR AN OLD GASSER".

He wanted to build a PERIOD CAR, HISTORICALLY CORRECT, and COMPLIANT WITH THE ACTUAL RACING RULES IN EFFECT AT THE TIME HIS BUILD REPRESENTED.

Anybody reading a bunch of ego-driven mumbo-jumbo psychobabble into answering questions regarding FACTS, and correcting MISINFORMATION is out of line.

 

So, I'm out of line.

WOW, I bet that's the first time anyone has been out of line here.

I'm DONE with this whole thing, but please continue, I'm sure that many of the members are as eager to learn as I am.

[GaryR]

"Facts are facts(big deal), but we are rewriting the dictionary every day, and if someone wants to call these cars gassers, who's to say that they're right or wrong."

 

 

THAT is an unbelievable statement, so ridiculous and modern BS "millenialish" that it defies REALITY> There ARE FACTS in life, not everything is a matter of opinion. Unbelievable, simply ASTOUNDING!

When somebody asks about THE HISTORY of a class in 1960, IT"S ABOUT FACTS, not opinion! OBVIOUSLY.

SWC cars were blue, not yellow. Maz was candy red, not striped orange and green. FACTS>

History is FACTUAL, reality, not somebody's opinion. 

The 396 didn't come out in 1955 , FACT.

The DOHC 289 was never in the Model A, FACT.

ETC> Doesn't anyone get an education anymore??LOL

OH, and yes I kNOW there was a black SWC  car.

Guess I didn't see all that I saw and photographed at the strip, the magazines are ALL wrong................because it doesn't fit with your opinion.

If you want to build toys, fine, who cares.

But if you want miniature replicas, there ARE st.......and those pesky facts.

andards

Edited October 11, 2018 by GaryR

[GaryR]

33 minutes ago, mike 51 said:

....sure gets ugly around here sometimes.

Don't be so fragile.

Why can't we discuss things?

[mike 51]

1 hour ago, GaryR said:

Don't be so fragile.

Why can't we discuss things?

I'm NOT Fragile by any means....some folks seem to think it's not acceptable to be civil anymore.  It just gets OLD.

(my comment had nothing to do with you GaryR)

[TarheelRick]

It appears to me there are a few members here who believe they know everything about everything and are not open to the idea others may also have a bit of experience in the topic.  I grew up in the early 60's as a complete motorhead.  I do remember some nose-high (a relative term) drag cars, some that come to mind are the Chevrolets of Sox & Martin and Don Nicholson.  The early magazines also ran articles on Gassers and some of them did have a somewhat nose-high attitude.  Just to add a bit of trivia, some of the nose-high cars are optical illusions.  If you put a straight axle under the nose of a tri-five Chevrolet it will normally have a bit of a nose-lift, if you then remove the bumper and grille, it will have a more pronounced look of being nose-high and it will be a bit higher from the loss of weight of the bumper and grille.

All this being said to maybe get some of the harsh antagonism out of posts.  And yes facts are facts, but it appears some are more unwilling to accept the FACT their facts may not be 100% accurate factually.

[Badluck 13]

There is a quite a few here in my area that run the Gasser circuit and most is headed by Don Moyer, a guy that lives , breaths Gassers and has a few of his own and one being a legend from the past.....here is a awesome vid of a group I am proud to say I follow and keep tabs on "Scottrods AA/Gassers",they are a true first class act and I am a huge fan of Martin Stead Jr. in da' green '41 Willys which puts on a awesome performance @11:32 mark.....Enjoy...

 

[GaryR]

1 hour ago, Badluck 13 said:

There is a quite a few here in my area that run the Gasser circuit and most is headed by Don Moyer, a guy that lives , breaths Gassers and has a few of his own and one being a legend from the past.....here is a awesome vid of a group I am proud to say I follow and keep tabs on "Scottrods AA/Gassers",they are a true first class act and I am a huge fan of Martin Stead Jr. in da' green '41 Willys which puts on a awesome performance @11:32 mark.....Enjoy...

 

Great. But these are MODERN CARS, not a 1960 car.

[Badluck 13]

1 minute ago, GaryR said:

Great. But these are MODERN CARS, not a 1960 car.

Yeap.....I am aware and I was not claiming them to be as such,jusssss showin' some great stuff to go along with Steve's pictures....

[RichCostello]

8 hours ago, TarheelRick said:

It appears to me there are a few members here who believe they know everything about everything and are not open to the idea others may also have a bit of experience in the topic.  I grew up in the early 60's as a complete motorhead.  I do remember some nose-high (a relative term) drag cars, some that come to mind are the Chevrolets of Sox & Martin and Don Nicholson.  The early magazines also ran articles on Gassers and some of them did have a somewhat nose-high attitude.  Just to add a bit of trivia, some of the nose-high cars are optical illusions.  If you put a straight axle under the nose of a tri-five Chevrolet it will normally have a bit of a nose-lift, if you then remove the bumper and grille, it will have a more pronounced look of being nose-high and it will be a bit higher from the loss of weight of the bumper and grille.

All this being said to maybe get some of the harsh antagonism out of posts.  And yes facts are facts, but it appears some are more unwilling to accept the FACT their facts may not be 100% accurate factually.

This kind of sensibility will not be tolerated here! LOL

Welcome to the Twilight Zone Rick.

[smhardesty]

Mike, Rich, and you other guys that seem to at least acknowledge that nose high gassers existed in the 50s and 60s and right up to today, thanks for your support. Originally I simply wanted to show Scott that nose high gassers not only existed, but were extremely common in the 50s and 60s. He wanted simple knowledge of how gasser classes were determined and some other very basic gasser know how. I was afraid he had gotten the wrong idea about gassers having to be nose down to be authentic and genuine. I wanted to present a few photos and a little knowledge so he was at least aware that nose high gassers were not only authentic, but pretty common back in the era he was interested in. Unfortunately we're all aware that there are certain individuals in the world that just absolutely know everything and don't care if they present non-factual and incorrect information to those that ask for help. Scott's gasser will be a great looking build, I'm sure. He has chosen to build it nose down and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. Best of luck, Scott.

And now I'll present my very last post on this forum. There are lots of great guys on here, but the fact that certain individuals on this forum possess all the knowledge that any drag racing fan could ever ask for kind of dampens the mood on here. I'm sure many of you will appreciate at least a few points in my next post, and I'm also sure that there will be a few that still absolutely deny that the sky is blue.

One final note on this next post. Over the past few days I have received several emails from a small group of forum members that are as dumbfounded as I am with this mess. They have chosen to remain anonymous and that's their right. Instead, they have voiced their support of me in the emails. I speak for them as well.

[smhardesty]

 

I'm going along with Rich on this one. After this post I'm done, not only with this thread, but with this forum. Presenting facts to certain people that are completely closed minded is a fruitless task. Regardless of how the facts are presented and what evidence exits, some folks just won't open their minds and realize that someone else might very well be offering them something new. For instance, several of you go over and over again about "reading the rule book". I say that's great. I think you should. If you did, you'd discover that the famed '24" rule' was first implemented in 1962. Now, slow down, read this carefully, and try very hard to process this logically. Why in the He!! do you suppose they had to implement such a rule in the first place? According to you close minded guys, it's because all REAL gassers from the beginning of the NHRA until 1962 were built level or nose down. Wait. Am I the only one that sees a problem with that totally ludicrous, asinine, cock-eyed attempt at logic? (if you don't know what they words mean, look them up, but try "amusing or laughable through obvious absurdity" for a definition of ludicrous) No, people. The reason the NHRA had to implement such a rule was because so many drivers and owners of gassers were jacking the fronts of the cars up so high it was becoming a safety concern! So yes, by all means, why don't some of you read the rule books then attempt to logically explain the reason for such a rule?

Bill, you go on a ridiculous rampage about how all the cars in the photos I posted are nothing more than "recent reconstruction 'nostalgia' wannabes, not actual period RACE CARS". Then you go to the trouble to post up an hour long video of "recent reconstruction 'nostalgia' wannabes, not actual period RACE CARS". What's even more outrageous is the fact that there are several "nose high" cars in that same video, but you make a feeble attempt to discredit those by saying these poor souls "have bought into the nose-high thing". Yes, they bought into it because it was the way a great many gassers were built in the 50s and 60s. Those gentlemen made a conscious decision to model their "recent reconstruction 'nostalgia' wannabe" gasser like the gassers from that era that they either vividly recall or found to be true classic gassers.

You also insisted on introducing a new phrase into the discussion that NO ONE before you brought up, and that is "nosebleed cars". No one here believes any of the cars with the noses raised to excess were, or are, serious race cars and definitely not gassers. Why did you insist on tainting the discussion? Was it because there were so many cars in your video that ARE nose high that you needed another way to try and sway the discussion in your favor? I think that might well be the case, so let's leave the term nosebleed or any similar term out of this discussion.

You implied that if I wanted to be wrong I should continue to get my "gospel from non-primary sources who really don't know what they're talking about". On more than one occasion you have slandered my quoted sources, even going so far as to call good men names. The one thing we seem to be lacking is any legitimate source that you are able to quote that very specifically states that "real" gassers are built with their stance level or nose down, and that any car built with it's nose high is not a real gasser. Please feel free to include a source that also specifically states that there never were cars (gassers) built in the 50s and 60s with a nose high stance. I, and several other forum members, would be extremely interested in reading any online or published article that makes such statements and/or claims. You are very quick to attack and attempt to discredit, but it seems you want us all the accept only YOUR OPINION on the matter as the "gospel" as you stated.

Your basis for wanting us to believe you are the gasser source savant that we only wish we could be is to state you have been an "adult in the motorsports industry, or very close to it, for almost 50 years" and that you have "experience setting up drag cars" and possess a "profound understanding of engineering, physics, vehicle dynamics, and aerodynamics". That seems a bit vague. Maybe you could enlighten us a bit. Are you saying you work for a drag racing team? Do you have a degree in engineering? Do you work for one of the Big 3? I'm just not sure what your statement of skill, knowledge, and general qualifications really means. Your use of the word, "profound understanding" further complicates understanding what it is you seem to know or do? And I'm still confused as to what "very close to" the motor sports industry might actually mean.

Here is a scenario that is similar to what Bill and a few others are attempting to present as fact. Let's say there are a boy and girl standing on the sidewalk. Two people have cameras. Person A takes a photo of the boy, then a photo of the girl. Person B takes ONLY a photo of the boy. A year later Person B tells everyone he sees that there were no girls present on the day he took the photo and to prove it, he presents just the photo of the boy. With only one photo in his hand he triumphantly proclaims there could not have been a girl present. Then person A presents both photos he took and explains that there was indeed a girl present. Person B denies that a girl was present stating that his proof is that he has only a photo of the boy, he knows what he saw, and anything the other person saw is wrong and not at all possible because he KNOWS what he saw. Period. End of discussion (according to him).

I searched the Internet for phrases like, "nose high gasser stance" and several similar phrases. I used multiple search engines as well as a few crawlers. Those of you not familiar with advanced searching via a search engine or unfamiliar with what a web crawler is, can rest assured that they are just ways to do complete, thorough searches on any subject. What I found was hundreds and hundreds of search results where either an individual was explaining what a "nose high" stance was, or explaining where the "nose high" stance originated, or an article referencing the stance that "classic gassers" had, or any similar type result. What I never found was any article stating that there were never any gassers with "nose high" stances, or that real gassers were built with the noses down, or any such negative response to gassers with a nose high stance. So I went out of my way and TRIED to find such an article. I used the same search engines and crawlers and tried multiple search phrases and in all my searching I was unable to find one, single article where any man or woman denied the existence of the nose high gasser. I also couldn't find any articles that stated there were only a couple or a few gassers built that way. In fact, I was unable to find ANY article that contradicts the fact that there were LOTS of nose high gassers in the 50s and 60s.

So here is my challenge to you, Bill and to any other individual that generally agrees with him. Do some work. Research the devil out of this subject and produce 2 or 3 Internet or other published articles that in some way denies that nose high gassers were very common in the 50s and 60s. Show us your sources that say that to be a REAL gasser the nose had to be at least level if not down. Produce photographs that prove the non-existence of nose high gassers, both in the 50s and 60s and any other era. And no, producing 10 million photographs of what you claim to be real gassers with noses down DOES NOT disprove the existence of nose high gassers. If you think it does, you obviously missed the whole point of the photo taking scenario and in that case, there is pretty much nothing that can be done for you as you just don't comprehend simple logic.

.

[GaryR]

Boo hoo hoo.

Looks like someone needs a safe space.

I really don't care what some people think, I was THERE, saw drag racing with my own eyes, not "research" on the internet.

If you are done with the Forums........bye bye. Adios. Such drama, it's ridiculous.

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

13 minutes ago, smhardesty said:

 

For instance, several of you go over and over again about "reading the rule book". I say that's great. I think you should. If you did, you'd discover that the famed '24" rule' was first implemented in 1962. Now, slow down, read this carefully, and try very hard to process this logically. Why in the He!! do you suppose they had to implement such a rule in the first place? According to you close minded guys, it's because all REAL gassers from the beginning of the NHRA until 1962 were built level or nose down. Wait. Am I the only one that sees a problem with that totally ludicrous, asinine, cock-eyed attempt at logic? (if you don't know what they words mean, look them up, but try "amusing or laughable through obvious absurdity" for a definition of ludicrous) No, people. The reason the NHRA had to implement such a rule was because so many drivers and owners of gassers were jacking the fronts of the cars up so high it was becoming a safety concern! So yes, by all means, why don't some of you read the rule books then attempt to logically explain the reason for such a rule?

 

Maybe while you're harping on "reading the rule book" you should also look for MY post where I mentioned that specific fact...that the 24" rule was implemented because cars with noses pointed to the stars were becoming dangerously unstable at speed.

[Jantrix]

Steve you knew what you were getting into with this post and you were ready for a fight right away. I actually had to correct you about it on your second post on this thread. You can't start an argument on purpose, (and no one here believes for a second you didn't) and then take umbrage when you get out-argued.  

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

 

 

[GaryR]

If you want REAL gass class cars......

 

http://www.gassermadness.us/

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/non-straight-axle-gassers.1108497/

 

http://www.georgeklass.net/gassers.html 

 

A few cars in you will see my friend the late Don Nowell's 37 Chevy. Oh gee, what did he know. Guys actually INSISTED gassers were jacked up...poor Don only RACED AT LIONS, POMONA, etc through the mid 60's. What did he know compare to guys THAT LOOK AT THE INTERNET! 

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/traditional-gassers-gas-class-cars-and-modern-traditional-cars.1044218/

 

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/gassers.210004/

 

And you can buy the excellent book GASSER WARS by Larry Davis

 

Don Montgomery's  SUPERCHARGED GAS COUPES, but what did Don know, he just raced a CC/Gs Willys for many years in SoCal. Knew SWC, Big John, Merkel, Shore, Pitman, Coonrod., Ohio George.....but those guys were nothing, right?

 

Some people just can't make the distinction between REAL gas class racing in the 60's, and modern cars. Sputter sputter! But! But!!!!

 

 The nosehigh deal did not last long, cars crashed, drivers were killed. NHRA banned it very quickly. On altereds too.

Very few even stuck with it before it was banned as cars were dangerously unstable.

 

Modern "gassers"(Race cars) can be fun to watch, but they are just that, modern tribute cars. With modern equipment. No Hydro's there.

 

There are exceptions to every rule, so what? proves NOTHING!!

 

And of COURSE websurfers know more than us old coots that were at the strip in those days. 

 

Good Grief.

[Badluck 13]

This thread is locked,it has got to the point it is flat out ugly and it will not get anywhere with this kind of responses,I too have opinions,fact and quit sure possibly some misleading info but instead of trying to prove who is right or wrong and who knows the most , I decided to just try to enjoy the pictures of what the post was intended on ,instead it's basically giving the forum a black eye.....