DeAgostini or Pocher

[Samets]

New here but wanted some feedback...

I was wondering if anyone can tell me the difference in build and quality of DeAgostini 1:8 models vs Pocher 1:8 models.

I'm thinking of getting one to build along my DeLorean...

[MrObsessive]

I'm building (albeit VERY slowly) a DeAgostini 1/8 '67 Shelby right now. If you're comparing it to the newest Pocher kits, I'd say they're about the same. The old Pocher (think 1935 Mercedes 500K-AK), kits there is no comparison. They can have literally hundreds if not thousands of parts including the nuts and bolts.

While DeAgostini's parts count may not be as high, they build into quite impressive models from the examples I've seen.

Edited December 5, 2018 by MrObsessive

[Samets]

To be honest, that's exactly what I'm looking at...   A DeAgostini '67 Shelby that's on sale right now or a Pocher Lamborghini...

[kpnuts]

The pocher lambo has had a few mixed ratings on  quality and fit. I don't know if they are right but I have built the 1/4 Ducati Panigale I have to say the fit of parts was great it did lack detail, i bought the upgrade sets and the upgraded decals also Paul Coos DVD and still had to add loads more detail to it. The long and short of what I'm saying is pocher (or hornby as they bought pocher) are not as detailed as they could and should be especially at the huge 1/4 scale. When you pay £600 for a kit you shouldn't then have to pay £200 more to detail it up. It seemed mostly to be penny pinching, most of the electrical connectors are moulded in the kit but no holes for the wires, they could have included an array of different thicknesses of wire and it would have cost them pennies per kit but improved the kit immeasurably and the rad which on the finished bike is very visible is awful (I bought pe to go over the plastic) (cost £ 11.00) see what I mean penny pinching. Anyway back to the original question, I've not built a deagostini kit  but I've watched a few built and what I've seen they look like great kits, they certainly look better than my Ducati.

[Samets]

7 hours ago, kpnuts said:

The pocher lambo has had a few mixed ratings on  quality and fit. I don't know if they are right but I have built the 1/4 Ducati Panigale I have to say the fit of parts was great it did lack detail, i bought the upgrade sets and the upgraded decals also Paul Coos DVD and still had to add loads more detail to it. The long and short of what I'm saying is pocher (or hornby as they bought pocher) are not as detailed as they could and should be especially at the huge 1/4 scale. When you pay £600 for a kit you shouldn't then have to pay £200 more to detail it up. It seemed mostly to be penny pinching, most of the electrical connectors are moulded in the kit but no holes for the wires, they could have included an array of different thicknesses of wire and it would have cost them pennies per kit but improved the kit immeasurably and the rad which on the finished bike is very visible is awful (I bought pe to go over the plastic) (cost £ 11.00) see what I mean penny pinching. Anyway back to the original question, I've not built a deagostini kit  but I've watched a few built and what I've seen they look like great kits, they certainly look better than my Ducati.

Thank you!  That made the choice much easier!  I just read some stories from builders of the original Pocher kits like the F40 and Testarossa and figured it might be worth a try...

I went ahead and ordered the Shelby GT500.

[kpnuts]

Ive watched loads of the older pocher kits being built the,original pocher kits were well detailed but not very accurate and the fit was awful.

I'm on the modelspace forum (actually won member of the year one year) I'm sure you made a good decision didn't want to mention it before as I didn't want to seem like I was trying to influence your decision. 

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Welp, in case anyone wants to hear from a guy who's got both...

Funny, my Pocher Aventador came out okay:

Paint quality fluctuates a bit from one kit to the next, so that's where your mileage is most likely to vary; the white ones seemed to have more problems with the factory paint, whereas this arancia just needed a little extra clearcoat to level everything out and shine it up.  Engineering and fit were pretty comprehensively developed for around 700 parts total, otherwise.  The single issue, pretty much on its lonesome, is that the damped door hinges may stand a bit proud and push the leading edge of the doors to a slightly wider gap than you'll see in all the other body panels, and that could be down to paint/powdercoat interference at the bosses where they screw into the body shell.  It was otherwise very agreeable to build.

Something I really appreciated about this kit was its refinement of the whole Pocher "Prestige" concept that started with the diecast Ferraris, and the way it combined that improvement in concept with the architectural emphasis of the "Classics" line.  Not only did the Aventador strike a better balance than the Ferraris for stressed and cosmetic parts and the materials used for them, it recalled the Classics' emphasis on the model building up in a fashion similar to the 1:1, with greater overall component accuracy than the Classics kits enjoyed.

The Huracan only escalates this.  Individual buttons for the console now.  A U-jointed shaft driving rack and pinion for the steering, rather than the Aventador's dogleg.  Could the detail hounds really up the stakes with aftermarket bits? Of course. But simple paint finishing hardly leaves you with an embarrassment in a current Pocher 1/8 model.

DeAgostini models go for a comparable result, but they take a different route.

(the comparison is kinda apples to half-apples since the Countach is still in progress)

Where Pocher's m o might be characterized as classic kit design orthodoxy on steroids, the partswork subscription kits make it more of a stated objective to democratize the building process for non-modelers.  As such, all parts are more comprehensively pre-finished where visible (in Kyosho's Countach, nearly enough to build without refinishing; in Altaya's GT500, less so), and perhaps not so representative where hidden.  I've found the paint quality a little rough on the Countach diecast pieces, more so than the Aventador's for sure.  The E-type Jag and the Shelby GT500 seem a bit smoother, but there may be stripe registration problems on the Shelby.

Here you'll see more emphasis on little gizmos like working lights and engine sounds.  The suspension will operate:

but perhaps it's a bit less demure about its fasteners than Pocher's kits are. That peg poking out is there to raise the headlights.

More direct engine comparisons:

ANY kit will depend on what the builder does with it, but Pocher clearly leans a little harder on a modeler's interpretation.

DeAgostini/Modelspace does offer a support forum, but I've found one caveat there: if modelers are known to get defensive about kit criticism in a more general forum like this one, it's taken to a sharper extreme in a sponsored forum like Modelspace.  One of their featured kits frankly has a design problem, and because the more senior members and mods there are uptight about acknowledging that, they also miss the fact the manufacturer actually provides a part used later in the assembly sequence that will solve the problem if it's "borrowed" earlier to help other components line up the way they should.

Instead, they've adopted the line that some people just don't have the mechanical inclination that others do, an approach that not only gets me sniffing for any odd limb in the water, but also runs counter to the apparent objective of making these kits accessible to anybody who wants to give one a try.  I have a comprehensive answer, one that may actually help DeAgostini sell kits rather than drive people from the forum or leave them posting videos about how they gave up and canceled subscriptions in frustration - but I think I'll need to film a video of my own for it.

One other consideration: Pocher's a $7-800 hit up front (cheaper depending on where you look).  DeAgostini runs more 12-14 all in, but you take $60-70 bites over a couple years, and you get those funky little magazines with each installment.

[Samets]

20 hours ago, Chuck Kourouklis said:

Welp, in case anyone wants to hear from a guy who's got both...

Funny, my Pocher Aventador came out okay:

Paint quality fluctuates a bit from one kit to the next, so that's where your mileage is most likely to vary; the white ones seemed to have more problems with the factory paint, whereas this arancia just needed a little extra clearcoat to level everything out and shine it up.  Engineering and fit were pretty comprehensively developed for around 700 parts total, otherwise.  The single issue, pretty much on its lonesome, is that the damped door hinges may stand a bit proud and push the leading edge of the doors to a slightly wider gap than you'll see in all the other body panels, and that could be down to paint/powdercoat interference at the bosses where they screw into the body shell.  It was otherwise very agreeable to build.

Something I really appreciated about this kit was its refinement of the whole Pocher "Prestige" concept that started with the diecast Ferraris, and the way it combined that improvement in concept with the architectural emphasis of the "Classics" line.  Not only did the Aventador strike a better balance than the Ferraris for stressed and cosmetic parts and the materials used for them, it recalled the Classics' emphasis on the model building up in a fashion similar to the 1:1, with greater overall component accuracy than the Classics kits enjoyed.

The Huracan only escalates this.  Individual buttons for the console now.  A U-jointed shaft driving rack and pinion for the steering, rather than the Aventador's dogleg.  Could the detail hounds really up the stakes with aftermarket bits? Of course. But simple paint finishing hardly leaves you with an embarrassment in a current Pocher 1/8 model.

DeAgostini models go for a comparable result, but they take a different route.

(the comparison is kinda apples to half-apples since the Countach is still in progress)

Where Pocher's m o might be characterized as classic kit design orthodoxy on steroids, the partswork subscription kits make it more of a stated objective to democratize the building process for non-modelers.  As such, all parts are more comprehensively pre-finished where visible (in Kyosho's Countach, nearly enough to build without refinishing; in Altaya's GT500, less so), and perhaps not so representative where hidden.  I've found the paint quality a little rough on the Countach diecast pieces, more so than the Aventador's for sure.  The E-type Jag and the Shelby GT500 seem a bit smoother, but there may be stripe registration problems on the Shelby.

Here you'll see more emphasis on little gizmos like working lights and engine sounds.  The suspension will operate:

but perhaps it's a bit less demure about its fasteners than Pocher's kits are. That peg poking out is there to raise the headlights.

More direct engine comparisons:

ANY kit will depend on what the builder does with it, but Pocher clearly leans a little harder on a modeler's interpretation.

DeAgostini/Modelspace does offer a support forum, but I've found one caveat there: if modelers are known to get defensive about kit criticism in a more general forum like this one, it's taken to a sharper extreme in a sponsored forum like Modelspace.  One of their featured kits frankly has a design problem, and because the more senior members and mods there are uptight about acknowledging that, they also miss the fact the manufacturer actually provides a part used later in the assembly sequence that will solve the problem if it's "borrowed" earlier to help other components line up the way they should.

Instead, they've adopted the line that some people just don't have the mechanical inclination that others do, an approach that not only gets me sniffing for any odd limb in the water, but also runs counter to the apparent objective of making these kits accessible to anybody who wants to give one a try.  I have a comprehensive answer, one that may actually help DeAgostini sell kits rather than drive people from the forum or leave them posting videos about how they gave up and canceled subscriptions in frustration - but I think I'll need to film a video of my own for it.

One other consideration: Pocher's a $7-800 hit up front (cheaper depending on where you look).  DeAgostini runs more 12-14 all in, but you take $60-70 bites over a couple years, and you get those funky little magazines with each installment.

Thank you for that comprehensive review of both!

I may order one of Pocher kits to try...  Where do I go to find them cheaper?

[Chuck Kourouklis]

Ah, Rusty, I am so sorry to have misled you.  The last time I checked, online auction sites were lousy with Pocher Aventadors dropping into the 500s, but apparently not any more.

You could still say they're not quite so pricey as a subscription model, but that argument has gotten a lot less substantial lately.

[Samets]

22 hours ago, Chuck Kourouklis said:

Ah, Rusty, I am so sorry to have misled you.  The last time I checked, online auction sites were lousy with Pocher Aventadors dropping into the 500s, but apparently not any more.

You could still say they're not quite so pricey as a subscription model, but that argument has gotten a lot less substantial lately.

Chuck,

 

No problem at all...  I just got on the Mustang deal for the holidays so I think I should be good for a little while...   I'm doing the DeLorean, the Mustang and hopefully once Eaglemoss gets their act together, I'll be also building the GT-R.

I also have a friend that is sourcing a part works kit from the Europe...