2020 Family Truckster !

[RichCostello]

19 minutes ago, MrObsessive said:

Scott, unfortunately I have to agree. While I don't hate trucks and SUV's, I just wish when I go onto car sites, every other article isn't about something trucky. That's the car guy in me I guess, but I've never been a big fan of vehicles that sit up too high.

I like things that can corner quickly and get out of their own way. While there are some mighty swift trucks out there, the law of physics can't be changed. That high center of gravity can be a sure fire way to see yourself roof down and wheels up!

Interestingly, it's the American car makers that are giving up on cars. You don't see the European or Asian market cars doing the same. There's something to be said about that.

The reason that American car makers are giving up on cars is because the foreign builders, that everyone was laughing at a few years ago, are  making more reliable, higher tech, and much better looking cars at a better price than the American companies can build. Compare a Kia Stinger, or Hyundai Genesis, or a Kia Optima, or Hyundai Sonata to anything in their class that the American companies are putting out. Can't laugh at the Korean cars anymore!

[iamsuperdan]

If the domestic brands could build a car that competes with the imports, I'd buy it. 

 

[Joe Handley]

10 hours ago, NYLIBUD said:

Yea I guess it looks a little better,but it still looks like a NASA vehicle that should be driving around exploring on Mars.Again,no offense to anybody

The KL is a pretty radical departure from our XJ's, but they've grown on me, in the "I could park a KL TrailHawk next to my XJ" sort of way....

[MrObsessive]

1 hour ago, RichCostello said:

The reason that American car makers are giving up on cars is because the foreign builders, that everyone was laughing at a few years ago, are  making more reliable, higher tech, and much better looking cars at a better price than the American companies can build. Compare a Kia Stinger, or Hyundai Genesis, or a Kia Optima, or Hyundai Sonata to anything in their class that the American companies are putting out. Can't laugh at the Korean cars anymore!

Sad, but very true! I have friends that own Hyundai's and they SWEAR by them! Never a big issue with them and IIRC. they offer a TEN year warranty??

Can't beat that!

[RichCostello]

2 hours ago, MrObsessive said:

Sad, but very true! I have friends that own Hyundai's and they SWEAR by them! Never a big issue with them and IIRC. they offer a TEN year warranty??

Can't beat that!

Yep, I sold Kias for four years, and that 5 year 60000 mile bumper to bumper-10 year 100000 mile power train warranty helped sell a lot of them.

[slusher]

9 hours ago, MrObsessive said:

Sad, but very true! I have friends that own Hyundai's and they SWEAR by them! Never a big issue with them and IIRC. they offer a TEN year warranty??

Can't beat that!

 

7 hours ago, RichCostello said:

Yep, I sold Kias for four years, and that 5 year 60000 mile bumper to bumper-10 year 100000 mile power train warranty helped sell a lot of them.

Kia and Hyundai are sell like crazy here in the south. I have nothing against any car maker or what they drive but the car is not dead American car companies are not build a car most Americans want...

[modelercarl]

After retiring at the end of 2002, after working 50-55 hours a week for almost 30 years, I had a hard time adjusting to so much idle time all of a sudden.  One of my daughters found a program run by Hyundai/Kia out of their engineering center in Sumpter Twp., near Ann Arbor, MI.  They had 2 crews, one days and one nights, that road tested all of their new and future model vehicles on a variety of roads in southwest Michigan area.  They usually had 3 test routes that they ran where they tried to include 15% gravel, 15% urban (during rush hour), 10% through unincorporated areas, 25% expressway and 35% suburban/urban roads during non rush hour.  These routes were revised or replaced with new routes about every 3 months.  Every vehicle was driven at least 100,000/year before being scrapped.  There usually was 2 versions of a model vehicle being run at all times, except for hand built models of future offerings.  Hyundai/Kia used standard corporate forms that each driver was responsible for filling out during their daily shift that documented a variety of inspections and tests that were to be performed and the drivers were often tasked with special inspections and tests that were required on a daily basis.  When issues or problems were identified by the drivers, they were addressed by the mechanics and the vehicles were then put through a rigorous test drive to address whether or not the problem was resolved correctly.  In addition to this facility doing vehicle testing, Hyundai/Kia had warm weather testing in Arizona, cold weather testing in Colorado and Canada.  This testing program is still being run as outlined above by Hyundai/Kia.

[Rob Hall]

I like the Kia Stinger GT and the new Genesis G70.. ..

[MrObsessive]

This is my favorite vehicle from Kia right now!

GM and Ford can't/won't build this kind of car because.....................???

[ratdoggy]

9 hours ago, RichCostello said:

Yep, I sold Kias for four years, and that 5 year 60000 mile bumper to bumper-10 year 100000 mile power train warranty helped sell a lot of them.

And NEW ones were priced just a bit higher than used cars

Years ago we needed a minivan ( I'm still ashamed).. Used vans with 50K on them were about $2K cheaper than the NEW Kia Sedona we bought...And it had every option but a rear spoiler. Full size spare on an aluminum wheel too.

[ratdoggy]

6 minutes ago, MrObsessive said:

This is my favorite vehicle from Kia right now!

GM and Ford can't/won't build this kind of car because.....................???

One can only wonder...I drive past a Kia dealer that has one out front and it's calling me....Even though I do like my wife's 2015 200 with a V6

[MrObsessive]

If I'm in need of a four door car in the future, I'll definitely be giving that Stinger a good work over. It's a toss up between that and a Charger, but the Charger despite its nice looks is starting to age albeit gracefully.

I just hope Chrysler doesn't fall into the "SUV and Truck" only mentality. IMO, that WOULD be a crying shame!

[Chuck Most]

On 12/6/2018 at 6:47 AM, mikemodeler said:

My thoughts exactly. It's like they went back to the first generation Colorado pickup and said " Let's take this grille, make it a bit uglier, and slap it on the new 2020 Silverado".

That was the first thing I thought- "Let's do an updated version of the base '04-'05 base halogen grille and slap it on this thing." I didn't know the first gen Colorado was "retro" enough to be a design influence. 

Don't worry guys, with a design this ugly... they'll sell a bunch of them. Pickups have to be in your face to sell these days, it seems. We're living in strange times when the Ram is the tamest looking pickup design...

[espo]

It is no secret that the Koran imports have been building some quality products for some time now. With the American manufactures ending sedan production to putting  "all of their eggs in one basket" to build trucks and SUV's  they are handing the business to imports just like they did with the compact automobile years ago. It would seem to me as a consumer that they are making their last stand by betting on trucks and SUV's alone and they are handing everything else to everyone else. So as has happened before, gas takes a hike too say $3.50 to $4.00 a gallon what are they going to have to sell then ? History has a bad habit of repeating its self and I think the soo called American manufactures are painting themselves into a corner when it comes to product. This goes way beyond ugly looking trucks, this may prove to be a very poorly planned future.    

[Ace-Garageguy]

1 hour ago, MrObsessive said:

...GM and Ford can't/won't build this kind of car because.....................???

My thoughts exactly, and one of the reasons I harp on Mary Barra's 22 MILLION DOLLAR a YEAR compensation package.

What makes a CEO worth that kind of jack when the company she runs seems to be unable to produce cars people want? 

I'm sure I could do every bit as uninspiring a job for $200,000 a year.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS: Ever since I first saw a couple year old 2012 Kia Rio 5-door, I've really been thinking seriously about buying one for the daily do-almost-everything car. 

Only two things holding me back. 1) It's kinda hard to find a used manual-gearbox one in cherry shape (if you can find one at all), and 2) I'd like to know more about the long-term availability of the electronic components in it. 

Edited December 8, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

27 minutes ago, espo said:

... So as has happened before, gas takes a hike too say $3.50 to $4.00 a gallon what are they going to have to sell then ? History has a bad habit of repeating its self and I think the soo called American manufactures are painting themselves into a corner when it comes to product. This goes way beyond ugly looking trucks, this may prove to be a very poorly planned future.    

Agreed.

But GM's long term plan seems to be to go totally electric. They have also made noises about getting out of "selling" vehicles at all, and teaming up with some concept like Uber to provide "on demand" transportation. It should be really interesting to see how that strategy plays out. The infrastructure still doesn't exist to be recharging the number of electric vehicles that might be coming online in the near future.

And while the "transportation-on-demand" concept seems to make some sense in light of the fact that millennials are said to not give a rats rump about owning cars in general (and can't afford 'em anyway), the generation following seems to be returning to some more traditional ways of thinking.

Not to worry though. There are millions of perfectly fine older vehicles needing good homes. The only trick is finding competent people to work on them, and high-quality parts.

Edited December 8, 2018 by Ace-Garageguy

[MrObsessive]

20 minutes ago, espo said:

It is no secret that the Koran imports have been building some quality products for some time now. With the American manufactures ending sedan production to putting  "all of their eggs in one basket" to build trucks and SUV's  they are handing the business to imports just like they did with the compact automobile years ago. It would seem to me as a consumer that they are making their last stand by betting on trucks and SUV's alone and they are handing everything else to everyone else. So as has happened before, gas takes a hike too say $3.50 to $4.00 a gallon what are they going to have to sell then ? History has a bad habit of repeating its self and I think the soo called American manufactures are painting themselves into a corner when it comes to product. This goes way beyond ugly looking trucks, this may prove to be a very poorly planned future.    

David, to expand a little on what you said......I'm of the mind one of the BIG things the American car manufacturers are overlooking is what's going to be the trend say 10 years down the road.

For example:

Let's take a look at the kids of today------say in the 13-17 year old range. I can best believe by the late '20's they are NOT going to want to buy what they're parents are buying. It's one of the reasons a car like the Mustang back in the mid '60's was such a hot seller. There was nothing like it before (maybe something similar, but not as sporty), and Ford couldn't make enough of 'em.

Sure tastes change and trends come and go, but I really believe like you said that they're shooting themselves in the foot BIG TIME. It doesn't even have to be a gas crisis that can do them in. It's the fact that at some point, the public will want something different and not the 'me too' type cars that everyone's latching onto now.

Frankly, I sure HOPE the pendulum swings back in the direction of an actual car. Trucks have their place, but when the average price of those can top $50K, it gets IMO looking kinda silly to be paying that kind of money for a truck.

9 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

While this seems to make some sense in light of the fact that millennials are said to not give a rats rump about owning cars in general (and can't afford 'em anyway), the generation following seems to be returning to some more traditional ways of thinking.

Bill, you posted just my very thoughts just as I was typing this. The under 20 somethings now are a very different generation coming up for whatever reason. Not to get political, but perhaps they're tired of all the rampant PCism that's been forced upon them throughout their entire school life, and they're getting fed up?

Now it's coming down to what choices they're going to have in what to drive............or not?

Hmmmm, that sounds like a MAJOR wind of change come this next decade!

Edited December 8, 2018 by MrObsessive

[mikemodeler]

I work for a division of Toyota and we are transitioning away from internal combustion engines and getting more involved with electric vehicles and autonomous capable vehicles. While they will not displace the 280 million vehicles already on the road in the US, they will be here sooner than we thought. To think we will all be driving in electric cars exclusively is a bit of a stretch, but the day is coming when we won't have much of a choice because gasoline will be priced out of reach for many. There are many parts of the world where an electric car is not feasible and therefore there will be a market for some form of gasoline powered vehicle.

One must consider the lower income person- teenager, entry level employee, etc- that will not be able to afford a new, electric car and will be forced into public transportation. It will change a lot in our lives- where we live, how we socialize, and it might be a reminder of the early 20th century in terms of how many people did not have a car.

There will need to be a massive investment in infrastructure for electric cars to thrive. Many will look to the government to fund it, however it will be up to the private sector to make it functional.

Interesting times and boy are they a changing!

 

[RichCostello]

5 hours ago, MrObsessive said:

This is my favorite vehicle from Kia right now!

GM and Ford can't/won't build this kind of car because.....................???

They won't build this kind of car because they would set the MSRP at $65000 and nobody would buy one because they could buy the Kia for $25000 less, and it wouldn't be recalled every 6 months, and in 5 years it wouldn't have a resale value of $2500.

[metalhead]

Makes me glad I got this.  2007 Ranger and I couldn't be any happier with it.

[Aaronw]

The family truckster is better looking.

 

On 12/6/2018 at 6:43 AM, misterNNL said:

According to one of my best friends who was directly involved in automotive design for one of the the big three for decades,"If you don't like the current designs of today's automobiles,don't blame the car makers,blame government regulations that effect every facet of what you see on the road".

 

14 hours ago, MrObsessive said:

This is my favorite vehicle from Kia right now!

GM and Ford can't/won't build this kind of car because.....................???

 

People always want to blame government regulation, yet somehow some manufactures are still able to build practical affordable and attractive cars and trucks.

 

Regulations may take some of the blame, but designers account for the bulk of the ugly impractical designs. Show me the regulation that forced GM to build to the Pontiac Aztek.