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Assembly Question Vintage 1950s Model


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Hi,

I have a new old stock model from the 1950s that I'm going to be building in the near future. I haven't built any models since I was a kid; after doing a little research I wasn't aware of so many glue/adhesive options available today. Not sure if this question has a simple answer or not though. What would be the "best" glue/bonding process to use on a vintage plastic model?

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It depends on the specific "plastic" material the kit is made of. There are several possibilities.

Some early Monogram kits, for instance, were made of "acetate". The liquid solvent-style adhesives most adult modelers prefer today don't have much effect on some grades of acetate.

Likewise, some early Johan kits are made of a solvent-resistant styrene that's also difficult to join with typical solvent-style adhesives.

In these two cases, CA (cyanoacrylate) "superglue" adhesives are my recommended choice. They come in an array of thicknesses (some will fill small gaps) and "fastness" (how much working time they give you). I've found a good all-round CA adhesive to be this Loctite product:

                                    image.jpeg.f7e7f1aec4719e4936adfa30d9fe4e84.jpeg

If it's a less solvent-resistant grade of styrene, then the old standard MEK-based liquid solvent-style adhesives are best.

For attaching clear parts, I highly recommend PVA-based "white" glues. They dry crystal clear and don't fog the clear parts like solvents and some CA adhesives do.

The old style tube glue really has no place anymore in the adult modeling world.

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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If it's an old annual kit from the 50s, chances are you won't need much glue.

Most of these old kits were "promo style" kits that were generally designed to go together with screws and had very little necessity for glue.

That being said, they are not much different than any other model, and my simple answer would be, if you can't get it done with a CA glue, some clear parts cement and maybe a little 2 part epoxy, it's not worth doing! :)

 

 

Steve

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2 hours ago, PB1983 said:

Thanks for the replies. This is an all glue model; no screws at all. I'm not sure of the manufacturer. Would there be a way to test one of the scrap pieces to determine what type of "plastic" this is?

If there are no screws at all, I question whether it is really all that old or "vintage".

A description or photos would be nice, but my guess is it's not that old & it's made from styrene plastic just like any other kit.

 

Steve

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38 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

If there are no screws at all, I question whether it is really all that old or "vintage".

Not everything was AMT or Johan screwbottom. Early Monogram kits were all glue. So were early smaller scale Revell kits, and others.

This is Monogram's very first kit. I have a couple, one in the original acetate, some in styrene. All glue. It's about 1/20 scale.

image.jpeg.bf10cfa4931d82c5ad3736d5d90e7c4d.jpeg

Their second kit was also all glue, about 1/24 scale.    image.jpeg.35837c92fa300bd0172918c3edd1fb6b.jpeg

Also glue:  image.jpeg.dc1a2fb2f5ea4539047a668dcb8cc2b5.jpeg     Image result for 1950s revell model car kits There are lots more.

Early Revell 1/25 scale all glue:   Image result for 1950s revell model car kits   Image result for original revell 58 corvette

image.jpeg.e6db52ea85dd627f0436bdc952a0e3a3.jpeg   image.jpeg.ceac61961e2754b92dbbb0e7e8aa9a8c.jpeg And there are still more.

 

 

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Not everything was AMT or Johan screwbottom. Early Monogram kits were all glue. So were early smaller scale Revell kits, and others.

This is Monogram's very first kit. I have a couple, one in the original acetate, some in styrene. All glue. It's about 1/20 scale.

Point taken.

But we still have no idea what we're dealing with from the OP.

I would be interested to see what it is.

Until there is more information, it's hard to give good advice.

Although my original post still stands as far as glue goes.

CA, clear parts cement, epoxy.

If I can't glue it with that, I'm not building it. :)

 

Steve

Edited by StevenGuthmiller
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23 hours ago, PB1983 said:

... Would there be a way to test one of the scrap pieces to determine what type of "plastic" this is?

Easiest thing to do is to try gluing two pieces of scrap or sprue together using conventional liquid "cement" made for plastic models.

Let it dry thoroughly.

Then try to break the joint.

If it breaks with very little pressure applied, it's one of the solvent-resistant plastics, and you'll need CA or epoxy.

It it's a pretty strong joint, you're golden.

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20 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Pretty cool. Definitely one I've never seen. I assume outboard-engine powered. About how long is it? Any nominal scale?

It's just over 7" long. My father built this same model when it was first released. I still have the man and outboard motor from his model but the boat was lost many many years ago. I've been looking for one of these kits for a long time and finally found one. It was still sealed in plastic with all the paper work and even the original glue tube! Here's an image of man and motor.

mm.jpg

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That's really interesting. It would stand to reason that Kellogg's got the boat from Monogram as well (the other models are almost certainly the Monogram kits I showed above, 99.999% probability), as the "art" style of the figure is just like the driver figure style in the little Midget racer, and their slightly later Indy car.

Man that's cool. Now I'm going to have to try to find one.   :D

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4 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

That's really interesting. It would stand to reason that Kellogg's got the boat from Monogram as well (the other models are almost certainly the Monogram kits I showed above, 99.999% probability), as the "art" style of the figure is just like the driver figure style in the little Midget racer, and their slightly later Indy car.

Man that's cool. Now I'm going to have to try to find one.   :D

Assuming it is a Monogram model; would you have an idea what material they used during that time?

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4 hours ago, PB1983 said:

Assuming it is a Monogram model; would you have an idea what material they used during that time?

Usually you can tell the difference between styrene and acetate plastic just by the feel and sound of it.

Styrene is usually harder, more brittle and many times thinner.

Acetate is softer, more flexible and dense feeling.

If you drop a piece of styrene plastic from a short distance it will have a high pitched, almost tinny sound.

Acetate will make a more muffled thud.

It's a little hard to describe, but this is my observation from dealing with kits, versus promos.

I'm sure that there might be variations, but these are the types of characteristics I look for.

 

If I had to guess just from the photos, my guess would be some sort of styrene plastic.

I make this observation purely from the shine & thickness of what I see in the photos.

Plus I don't see any warpage which is a hallmark of early acetate models.

 

Steve

Edited by StevenGuthmiller
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5 hours ago, PB1983 said:

Assuming it is a Monogram model; would you have an idea what material they used during that time?

It'll depend on exactly when it was made. Monogram used exactly the same tooling for their acetate and styrene versions on the little midget racer shown several posts back. The acetate one I have is molded in red, as are most of the later styrene issues.

The acetate on my first-issue Monogram midget hasn't warped (much) because of the way it was stored. Acetate models don't necessarily self-destruct if they're stored in an environment that doesn't kill 'em.

Anyway, the only way to really tell is to try a solvent bond test on a hidden area, or a piece of sprue.

And whatever it is...styrene or acetate...you can use CA or epoxy. It's just the styrene glue usually doesn't work well on acetate (in my experience).

Another note that bears repeating: some of the early "high impact" styrene formulations were quite solvent resistant. The tube goo most kids slathered on back then would stick 'em together, sorta. But I bought a '61 Johan gluebomb a while back that was so solvent resistant (and it was styrene), I had no choice but to use epoxy for assembly and repair. The solvent-type liquid glues, even the "hottest" one I had, would slightly dissolve and adhere broken ends of parts together, but with subsequent handling, the joins just fell apart.

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On 12/8/2018 at 9:20 AM, PB1983 said:

... What would be the "best" glue/bonding process to use on a vintage plastic model?

Well, I bought one. Definitely styrene, but a much harder, more solvent resistant grade we used to get in the days of the dinosaurs.

I tried both Plastruct "Plastic Weld" (MEK-based) and "Bondene" ((dicloromethane based). They'll both work, but if I had a gun at my head and had to pick one, I'd give a slight edge to the Bondene.

CA will also work, but if you're going to want to sand the joins smooth, I'd go with one of the above mentioned solvent types.

Be sure to give your work plenty of time to dry, too. At least overnight.

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2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Well, I bought one. Definitely styrene, but a much harder, more solvent resistant grade we used to get in the days of the dinosaurs.

Oh yeah. I've said for the longest time the plastic we're getting today is NOT the same we used to get even as recently as 15 years ago. It's been mainly the reason I've become paranoid about painting with automotive paints and I'll barrier coat everything. It'll save many a headache (and heartache) from having to see your much prized creation get ruined in an instant from paint that's too hot for today's plastics.

On that same note though......have the paints changed recently as far as their chemical makeup? When I was painting my MPC '74 Corvette Coupe, I used paint that I had mixed by a local retailer. Just to see how it would react to the plastic, I airbrushed a bit of it on a junk Monogram '59 Chevy body.

What's interesting is the paint with NO primer or barrier coat whatsoever on the Chevy body DID NOT craze the plastic! I was pleasantly surprised as it made me wonder if the retailers are producing paint recently with 'kinder' chemicals.

Just thinking out loud as this thread reminded me of that. ;)

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On 12/9/2018 at 12:56 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

Not everything was AMT or Johan screwbottom. Early Monogram kits were all glue. So were early smaller scale Revell kits, and others.

This is Monogram's very first kit. I have a couple, one in the original acetate, some in styrene. All glue. It's about 1/20 scale.

image.jpeg.bf10cfa4931d82c5ad3736d5d90e7c4d.jpeg

Their second kit was also all glue, about 1/24 scale.    image.jpeg.35837c92fa300bd0172918c3edd1fb6b.jpeg

Also glue:  image.jpeg.dc1a2fb2f5ea4539047a668dcb8cc2b5.jpeg     Image result for 1950s revell model car kits There are lots more.

Early Revell 1/25 scale all glue:   Image result for 1950s revell model car kits   Image result for original revell 58 corvette

image.jpeg.e6db52ea85dd627f0436bdc952a0e3a3.jpeg   image.jpeg.ceac61961e2754b92dbbb0e7e8aa9a8c.jpeg And there are still more.

 

 

I have a question about the '59 Vette pictured here . Was is the '90's Revell did a '58 Master Modeler . Few years later a '59 Kit . Was either 1/25 Scale ? This Kit pictured here or the later Model Master '59 the follow up of the '58 , the '59 Kit ?  Thanx .. 

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43 minutes ago, dimaxion said:

I have a question about the '59 Vette pictured here . Was is the '90's Revell did a '58 Master Modeler . Few years later a '59 Kit . Was either 1/25 Scale ? This Kit pictured here or the later Model Master '59 the follow up of the '58 , the '59 Kit ?  Thanx .. 

This kit was 1/25.   Image result for original revell 58 corvette

Later released as this kit...   image.jpeg.5e4cd8adc03131afa9982eb1c2297c65.jpeg

and this kit...   Image result for revell 1959 corvette

All had a multi-part body, but are quite well proportioned and build up well.  Image result for revell 1959 corvette

The later 1/25 '58 "Master Modeler" version is a different tool with a one-piece body.   Image result for revell 1959 corvette   Image result for revell 1959 corvette

Edited by Ace-Garageguy
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22 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Except that it's about 1/18 scale (but don't quote me...I haven't measured and divided yet, but it's pretty big).

Ok, good to know. That will save me from searching for one. Kind of a shame, though, because I'm really finding coolness in that kit.

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