AMT'S PONTIAC 1969 FIREBIRD, KIT 31808

[Wm David Green]

Reference AMT'S PONTIAC 1969 FIREBIRD, KIT 31808, (2003 issue)

Whats in the box? does this issue include any optional parts, such as the alternate hood.

Thank you

William The Collector

firebird69.docx

[1972coronet]

I have a c.1979 issue of the kit which I bought for two reasons :

- OHC 6 engine 

- Spyders wheels 

I don't remember if the kit has two different bonnets or if it includes only the T/A hood .

[Rob Hall]

I built the mid 80s MPC issue (with the blue car box art) and a 90s AMT release with an orange car on the box art.   Both had the 6 cyl and 400 V8 and two hoods IIRC.   The Spyder wheels were gone by then, both the '80s and '90s issues had weird 6 lug 80s style slotted wheels as the custom option.  These are the ones I built.  I also built the convertible version back in the 80s, had the same parts as the ht IIRC.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Rob Hall

[Rob Hall]

I later got this version, but haven't built it...this MPC release is from around 1979-1980 IIRC.

[Sport Suburban]

I think that is the issue that has all the parts for the TA or the 400 version but has bad decals. I believe the decals were only black TA stripes and no Trans Am wording.

[Mark]

One change you can make that really improves the look of the body, is to trim the windshield opening higher at the top.  You'd file the actual opening higher by the thickness of the trim around the windshield at the top, then scribe new trim above that.  There are other issues (headlights are too small, for one) but the windshield opening makes a big difference.

I fitted the underbody and interior from a Revell '69 Camaro into one of these bodies (at the time I did it, Revell hadn't released the '68 Firebird yet).  The underbody needed some minor trimming at the outside edges due to the MPC Firebird body being thicker, but it does fit pretty well.  That would suggest that the overall shape of the body is pretty good (though some of the sculpturing isn't as good as it could have been).

[Snake45]

25 minutes ago, Mark said:

One change you can make that really improves the look of the body, is to trim the windshield opening higher at the top.  You'd file the actual opening higher by the thickness of the trim around the windshield at the top, then scribe new trim above that.  There are other issues (headlights are too small, for one) but the windshield opening makes a big difference.

Another thing that really helps this body (and the MPC '69 Camaro as well) is to knock down the top edge of the rear fenders a little, so you can get the correct contour between the bottom of the rear quarter windows and the top of the fenders. The circles in these pics show how I've done this on an MPC '69 Camaro body. It's a bit hard to describe, but look at the MPC Firebird or Camaro body and compare it with either pics of real ones, or even the Revell '69 or '67 Camaro  or '68 Firebird bodies (or even the AMT '68 Camaro) to see what I mean. 

[Oldcarfan27]

On 12/14/2018 at 10:37 AM, Snake45 said:

The problem with the MPC Camaro body is the wheelwell openings and flairs are too small and too low. I've read the problem here is that the 69 Camaro annual kit came directly from the 68 annual and that the side crease is actually too low for a 69. You'd have to channel out a slice from above the crease and move the side up. Then you'd have to add material to the bottom of the door/rocker panel area to make up for the loss.

Not sure if the 69 Firebird has these same issues or not, it doesn't look as bad to my eye.

[Snake45]

49 minutes ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

The problem with the MPC Camaro body is the wheelwell openings and flairs are too small and too low. I've read the problem here is that the 69 Camaro annual kit came directly from the 68 annual and that the side crease is actually too low for a 69. You'd have to channel out a slice from above the crease and move the side up. Then you'd have to add material to the bottom of the door/rocker panel area to make up for the loss.

Not sure if the 69 Firebird has these same issues or not, it doesn't look as bad to my eye.

You read that from me, and the Firebird body has the same problem. The only cure to do a GOOD one is to start with a Revell '69 Camaro body and convert it to a Firebird. 

[Daddy Mack]

34 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I've read the problem here is that the 69 Camaro annual kit came directly from the 68 annual and that the side crease is actually too low for a 69.

I dunno about that. Pretty sure the MPC 1968 Camaro body ended up in the Jeg's 1968 Camaro Super Stocker in 1972 or so. Most of the rest of the 1968 RS/SS396 was carried over to the 1969 Camaro with new sections cut for the interior parts. The 1969 Camaro annual body mold was new steel, not a rework.

[Mark]

1 minute ago, Daddy Mack said:

I dunno about that. Pretty sure the MPC 1968 Camaro body ended up in the Jeg's 1968 Camaro Super Stocker in 1972 or so. Most of the rest of the 1968 RS/SS396 was carried over to the 1969 Camaro with new sections cut for the interior parts. The 1969 Camaro annual body mold was new steel, not a rework.

They're all the same body.  '68 annual, '69 annual, '69 Dickie Harrell funny car, then the dirt track car, then the black Camaro with the Pontiac engine, then the convertible.  The only new body is the misshapen Fast & Furious hardtop that was done much later.

[Daddy Mack]

29 minutes ago, Mark said:

They're all the same body.  '68 annual, '69 annual, '69 Dickie Harrell funny car, then the dirt track car, then the black Camaro with the Pontiac engine, then the convertible.  The only new body is the misshapen Fast & Furious hardtop that was done much later.

Good one! But i woulda saved it for April 1.

The roof and trunklid mold sections on the first gen MPC Camaros and Firebirds annuals were all Kellered from the same master. And that makes people who never been around injection molds think that there was only one body mold for the 1968 & 1969 Camaros and one for the 1968 & 1969 Firebirds.

 

[Snake45]

36 minutes ago, Daddy Mack said:

Good one! But i woulda saved it for April 1.

The roof and trunklid mold sections on the first gen MPC Camaros and Firebirds annuals were all Kellered from the same master. And that makes people who never been around injection molds think that there was only one body mold for the 1968 & 1969 Camaros and one for the 1968 & 1969 Firebirds.

 

If that's true, then MPC screwed the pooch completely on the '69 Camaro and Firebird molds by not raising the body side line. Why would they do this on new molds? 

And that also begs the question, why was the '68 Firebird nor any variant of it ever reissued? 

[Rob Hall]

1 minute ago, Snake45 said:

If that's true, then MPC screwed the pooch completely on the '69 Camaro and Firebird molds by not raising the body side line. Why would they do this on new molds? 

And that also begs the question, why was the '68 Firebird nor any variant of it ever reissued? 

I'd assume the MPC annual '67 Firebird tooling was modified to make the '68, then the '68 Firebird tooling was modified to make the '69...standard practice back in the era of annuals and why we usually only have the last year of a cycle still available.

[Oldcarfan27]

11 hours ago, Snake45 said:

The only cure to do a GOOD one is to start with a Revell '69 Camaro body and convert it to a Firebird. 

I've thought about trying to do that, but I can't figure out how to mix and match the two for a cohesive blend. The front fenders have me stumped so far.

[MrObsessive]

13 hours ago, Snake45 said:

You read that from me, and the Firebird body has the same problem. The only cure to do a GOOD one is to start with a Revell '69 Camaro body and convert it to a Firebird. 

EXACTLY! This is one subject that is SCREAMING to be done properly!  It's also another car that I mentioned to Ed Sexton personally a few years ago, along with the '77 T-Bird and the '71 Riviera.

I someday plan to do just that..........take the nose and rear panel off the Firebird and graft it onto the Revell Camaro.

Some other treaks would be needed, but that would go a loooong way in making a GOOD '69 Firebird/Trans Am. Of course, right when I decide to dive into this WIP, Revell will announce one.

[MrObsessive]

2 hours ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

I've thought about trying to do that, but I can't figure out how to mix and match the two for a cohesive blend. The front fenders have me stumped so far.

I've gone over both bodies and it seems to me the 1:1's shared basically the same fenders. The Revell one would need some tweaks to the front fenders as far as 'creases' among other things. Much easier task than trying to get that entire MPC body to look right.

[Snake45]

9 hours ago, MrObsessive said:

EXACTLY! This is one subject that is SCREAMING to be done properly!  It's also another car that I mentioned to Ed Sexton personally a few years ago, along with the '77 T-Bird and the '71 Riviera.

I someday plan to do just that..........take the nose and rear panel off the Firebird and graft it onto the Revell Camaro.

Some other treaks would be needed, but that would go a loooong way in making a GOOD '69 Firebird/Trans Am. Of course, right when I decide to dive into this WIP, Revell will announce one.

The cowls (area just below the windshield) is also different between the Camaro and Firebird. The cowl from either an MPC '69 or a Revell '68 would have to be grafted into the Revell body. And, as you say, the '69 Camaro front fenders would need the creases ahead of the wheel openings added. Dunno if it would be easier to graft these in from an MPC body, or just build them up with putty. 

Building a good '69 Firebird is definitely a do-able project, and I think I even have the skills to actually do it. The problem with me is, I'm just not motivated--I don't like the '69 Firebird enough to do it. If someone came out with a good '69 Firebird new kit, I can't promise you I'd buy it. It wouldn't be high on my priority list, at any rate. Interestingly, I DO have a certain desire to build one of the MPC Firebirds in my stash, making the rear fender correction mentioned above, just to say I've built one and get it on my shelf. 

I have one of the oddball AMT '68 Firebirds, a glue bomb, in the stash. Sometime I'd like to get around to doing that one up as a phantom '68 TA. Yah, I know, it would be 10X easier to just do it on a new Revell kit, but I just want to do something with that wretched old AMT, just to say I did. 

[MrObsessive]

1 hour ago, Snake45 said:

The cowls (area just below the windshield) is also different between the Camaro and Firebird. The cowl from either an MPC '69 or a Revell '68 would have to be grafted into the Revell body.

I see what you mean there...........I'd sooner graft the one from the MPC body. The Revell '68 is just too nice to cut up (I have one) while the MPC kit I have is good for nothing but parts IMO.

I have the Fred Cady decal sheet and all to do this car. At this point though other projects at this time are taking precedence although if a brand new tool '69 Trans Am ever surfaced, I'd certainly be in line to buy one.  

One nice thing about that old MPC tool is they do give you the overhead cam six that was rather rare in a car in those days. Perhaps I may take a '68 Firebird and backdate it to a '67 convertible with that engine.

Hmmm............