WW III, the war on plastic.

[HotRodaSaurus]

I don't know if this has been covered yet so here goes, but please direct me to a relevant topic if it has 

In the UK we have gone all anti plastic since David Attenborough highlighted the impact plastic waste is having on our planet and it's waters. Drinking straws are being replaced by paper, carrier bags and other single use items are trying to go eco friendly, and in most cases quite rightly so. Plastic recycling has been going on for years, they know it takes so many thousands of years to degrade so why has it now suddenly become a world wide issue?

Has this yet caused a rise in the cost of plastic components, will toys and such eventually be made from other materials as well as recycled plastics  and will the prices of our beloved models rise beyond the everyday model builders pocket?
JT

[stitchdup]

do you live near a beach? if you do pop down with a bucket and spade and see how many colours of plastic you can find, it might shock you how bad the seas are now

[Anglia105E]

Apparently, and you may know this already, there are vast " islands " of plastic waste floating around the Pacific Ocean which the environment care people don't quite know how to deal with yet. They are trying lots of different methods to deal with the huge problem and there is ongoing research into this serious issue.

David

[Brett Barrow]

The short answer

4 hours ago, HotRodaSaurus said:

Has this yet caused a rise in the cost of plastic components, will toys and such eventually be made from other materials as well as recycled plastics  and will the prices of our beloved models rise beyond the everyday model builders pocket?

The short answer: No.  

The long answer: NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. 

[peter31a]

I don't want this to turn political but where is all the plastic coming from? We recycle all our plastics. Been doing so for years. As far as I know it eventually gets shipped to a foreign country for recycling. Are they the ones then taking it and dumping it in the ocean? Are people saving all their plastic and then taking vacation and driving to the ocean and dumping it in? I want to know why I can't have a straw when I live in the middle of a large continent nowhere near an ocean.?

[Snake45]

1 hour ago, Anglia105E said:

Apparently, and you may know this already, there are vast " islands " of plastic waste floating around the Pacific Ocean

I've heard this many times, but I don't believe I've ever seen any pictures of such. 

[espo]

4 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I've heard this many times, but I don't believe I've ever seen any pictures of such. 

National Geographic Magazine has done several articles on the subject. I suggest going  to their web site for additional information and pictures. The pictures alone will open your eyes to just how big a problem this really is. I'm not a tree hugger, but this is something that is just out of hand and since it isn't sitting on our door step we tend to think it isn't a big deal, but we would be very wrong to think that way.   

[Mark]

6 minutes ago, peter31a said:

I don't want this to turn political but where is all the plastic coming from? We recycle all our plastics. Been doing so for years. As far as I know it eventually gets shipped to a foreign country for recycling. Are they the ones then taking it and dumping it in the ocean? Are people saving all their plastic and then taking vacation and driving to the ocean and dumping it in? I want to know why I can't have a straw when I live in the middle of a large continent nowhere near an ocean.?

Not everyone recycles, even when provided with bins and presented with the idea that it's common sense to do so.  I still pick up plastic bags, water bottles, and those plastic things that hold half a dozen cans together, from the street in front of my house.  Someone I spoke to awhile back seemed impressed when I mentioned that I put my recycling bin out at the street more often than my trash bin.  The recycling one is smaller, but since then I've glanced at what the neighbors are doing, and I seem to be the exception to the rule.

A lot of these "taxes" or "fees" on things like this aren't aimed at "saving the environment"...they don't really care if anyone changes their behavior.  They just want you to pay for permission to do what you are doing.  It could be argued that they really don't want you to change, because if you did they'd take in less money as a result. 

[Brett Barrow]

28 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I've heard this many times, but I don't believe I've ever seen any pictures of such. 

The overwhelming majority of plastic in the ocean garbage patches are broken apart to millimeters in size from friction and sun weathering. You will not see this plastic from a boat, much less from space as it's essentially a transparent density. The pictures you often see in articles about the ocean patch are generally from shore debris which can easily get that dense if near a large population center. Out in the ocean, things are different.

88% were less than 10 mm in largest dimension, and most had characteristics suggesting physical deterioration such as brittleness, rough edges, or cracks. It is likely that plastic pieces ultimately become small enough to pass through the 335-μm mesh net used in this study - (Law, et al.)

The plastic from say a milk jug is still there, but now in smaller bits. In the North Pacific central gyre, there is about 5 kg of plastic for every square kilometer of open ocean, this was measured to be six times more plastic by mass than plankton in the same region. The plastic can stick around for awhile because of the ocean's currents.

The dominant clockwise gyral currents also serve as a retention mechanism that inhibits plastics from moving toward mainland coasts. A recent surface current modeling study simulated that most of the particles from our sampling area should be retained there for at least 12 years - (Moore, et al.)

• Moore, et al. A Comparison of Plastic and Plankton in the North Pacific Central Gyre. Marine Pollution Bulletin. 2001.

• Law, et al. Plastic Accumulation in the North Atlantic Subtropical Gyre. Science. 2010.

[Brett Barrow]

This is what oceanic plastic waste actually looks like, this is what makes up the ocean garbage patches:

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Brett Barrow

[espo]

12 minutes ago, Brett Barrow said:

This is what oceanic plastic waste actually looks like, this is what makes up the ocean garbage patches:

 

And the Sea Life are feeding on these particles. These is killing much of the Sea Life in many areas and it inters the Food Chain thru the fish we consume.  

[iamsuperdan]

Very familiar with the "banning" of plastics, and never really thought about how this might affect our hobby. I would think for the foreseeable future we'll be fine. Plastic exists, and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Be it hosehold appliances, cars, or plastic models, things will continue to be plastic for a long time.

 

As for trash island, just google "plastic island."

It exists, and it's gross.

 

 

[Reegs]

It's in the food. Our food.

[stitchdup]

They are cleaning up the mess though. I'm getting an error when I try to post a link but google ocean clean up and you can see the technology being used. There is hope, but personally I dont use plastic bags anymore. The only plastic I use is my kits and model stuff. If you ask in stores they usually are happy to give you cardboard boxes for your shopping and as a bonus to the retailer they save on recycling the boxes and you help save just a little bit of the enviroment

[vamach1]

Like others have said trash being dumped into landfills hundreds of miles inland is probably not ending up in the oceans.  Where do they countries with over a billion mostly people dump stuff?  Until that problem is dealt all othe measures while helpful are only a fraction of the solution.  I do not see the Mississippi river on this list.

Edited January 3, 2019 by vamach1

[Ich_Will]

Everyone tells me that MY plastic is the problem, that MY recycling (or lack of) is to blame, that MY car is polluting the air. I'm guilted everyday. Then I see pictures of China's air pollution or India's "Garbage Beach"...  Tell me again how my efforts make one bit of difference in a world where some entire countries don't bother. 

[vamach1]

9 minutes ago, Ich_Will said:

Everyone tells me that MY plastic is the problem, that MY recycling (or lack of) is to blame, that MY car is polluting the air. I'm guilted everyday. Then I see pictures of China's air pollution or India's "Garbage Beach"...  Tell me again how my efforts make one bit of difference in a world where some entire countries don't bother. 

Some people like to kid themselves that they are saving the planet so they can sleep better at night in their air conditioned or heated house. 

[Joe Handley]

5 hours ago, Mark said:

Not everyone recycles, even when provided with bins and presented with the idea that it's common sense to do so.  I still pick up plastic bags, water bottles, and those plastic things that hold half a dozen cans together, from the street in front of my house.  Someone I spoke to awhile back seemed impressed when I mentioned that I put my recycling bin out at the street more often than my trash bin.  The recycling one is smaller, but since then I've glanced at what the neighbors are doing, and I seem to be the exception to the rule.

A lot of these "taxes" or "fees" on things like this aren't aimed at "saving the environment"...they don't really care if anyone changes their behavior.  They just want you to pay for permission to do what you are doing.  It could be argued that they really don't want you to change, because if you did they'd take in less money as a result. 

When I was still going and running my Crawler R/C trucks, I was always finding garbage, and especially fishing line (usually wrapped around an axle). Some of it woud wash up on shore near the river I like to run by, some was left by picnickers  or sport fishers when there were cans you walked past to get you your car. Always irritated the daylights outta me.

 

[TarheelRick]

A local textile company has developed a clothing fabric using recycled plastic bottles.  Just saying, the next shirt you buy could have been made from that bottle of soda you drank a few days ago.  I do recycle as much as possible, it just seems the right thing to do.  Sure wish I could figure some way to turn my leftover sprues into kit plastic.

[Tom Geiger]

20 minutes ago, Ich_Will said:

Everyone tells me that MY plastic is the problem, that MY recycling (or lack of) is to blame, that MY car is polluting the air. I'm guilted everyday. Then I see pictures of China's air pollution or India's "Garbage Beach"...  Tell me again how my efforts make one bit of difference in a world where some entire countries don't bother. 

I learned about recycling back in 1970 in 6th grade.. remember the Ecology flag? We kids collected cans and bottles at the school, amassing a grand amount of them.  Then we found there was no place to recycle them so they wound up going into the landfill.  Time marched on and now in the USA we turn in more recyclable materials than the market can bear. 

As far as recyclables from India, China and other developing nations, you cannot tell me they aren't recycling commodities like glass, aluminum and plastics.  They are doing so because they are importing same from the USA. There is a use for the materials.  In fact, one of the US exports to China is "Fluff".  That's what's left after cars are ground up in auto recycling, once  the magnets have pulled all of the metals out of it.  What's left are tiny bits of non- ferrous metals. This includes aluminum, copper, lead, zinc and tin, as well as precious metals like gold and silver.  Retrieving these becomes a hand sort, which isn't financially feasible in the USA.  But the labor rate in China is so low, it's profitable there.  So we sell them Fluff by the container load.  So rest assure that anything of value is recycled.

What we are concerned about is those same countries lack of controls on pollution,  in the air, water and land.  They will eventually discover that they need to address this on their own as they continue to poo in their own box.  If not, the global community will act.  First an entity like the UN will enact global pollution standards. Then the final action will be when major markets like USA and EU band together and refuse to accept imports from countries until they work to certain standards.  It will happen in time, especially as their polution affects the rest of the planet.  

[iamsuperdan]

So the plastic used by Revell or Tamiya or any of the other model companies...is it virgin plastic or recycled? I would think a switch to recycled plastic would be a good thing. And I have to think that by now, at least one of the model companies would have looked in to this.

[1930fordpickup]

For years here things were thrown into rivers and lakes to get rid of it. Out of Sight out of mind. It has taken years, no decades to cleanup this mess around here and it is not done. It is hard to go reverse the harm we have done because of many reasons. We know better but things are still discarded along the roads in ditches or just litter from lazy people.

While fishing in Michigan around Oscoda this year I picked up a pull tab that was in the path. It was in great shape considering they stopped using them in the early 80's.  Yes I know this was made of Aluminum but it will take more time than we think to clean up the mess we have made.  Let us hope the knee jerk reaction is not to severe.  

[Aaronw]

1 hour ago, Ich_Will said:

Everyone tells me that MY plastic is the problem, that MY recycling (or lack of) is to blame, that MY car is polluting the air. I'm guilted everyday. Then I see pictures of China's air pollution or India's "Garbage Beach"...  Tell me again how my efforts make one bit of difference in a world where some entire countries don't bother. 

 

 

It makes where you live nicer that those areas where they poop in the street. I assume you are pro indoor plumbing?

[Junkman]

I cannot be held responsible for this. Plastic is carefully stored in my dungeon, I would never throw any of it into the oceans.
Plastic recycling is a myth, though.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Junkman

[vamach1]

55 minutes ago, Tom Geiger said:

I learned about recycling back in 1970 in 6th grade.. remember the Ecology flag? We kids collected cans and bottles at the school, amassing a grand amount of them.  Then we found there was no place to recycle them so they wound up going into the landfill.  Time marched on and now in the USA we turn in more recyclable materials than the market can bear. 

As far as recyclables from India, China and other developing nations, you cannot tell me they aren't recycling commodities like glass, aluminum and plastics.  They are doing so because they are importing same from the USA. There is a use for the materials.  In fact, one of the US exports to China is "Fluff".  That's what's left after cars are ground up in auto recycling, once  the magnets have pulled all of the metals out of it.  What's left are tiny bits of non- ferrous metals. This includes aluminum, copper, lead, zinc and tin, as well as precious metals like gold and silver.  Retrieving these becomes a hand sort, which isn't financially feasible in the USA.  But the labor rate in China is so low, it's profitable there.  So we sell them Fluff by the container load.  So rest assure that anything of value is recycled.

What we are concerned about is those same countries lack of controls on pollution,  in the air, water and land.  They will eventually discover that they need to address this on their own as they continue to poo in their own box.  If not, the global community will act.  First an entity like the UN will enact global pollution standards. Then the final action will be when major markets like USA and EU band together and refuse to accept imports from countries until they work to certain standards.  It will happen in time, especially as their polution affects the rest of the planet.  

Sounds great in theory but as we have seen with other "global" problems the developed countries beat themselves up with controls and restrictions and we tell the rest of the world to get their act together decades from now.  I see only one person who would have they guts to tell other countries to clean up their act now but he's a little busy at the moment with a drug and human trafficking problem just to the south.