WW III, the war on plastic.

[stitchdup]

10 minutes ago, vamach1 said:

Sounds great in theory but as we have seen with other "global" problems the developed countries beat themselves up with controls and restrictions and we tell the rest of the world to get their act together decades from now.  I see only one person who would have they guts to tell other countries to clean up their act now but he's a little busy at the moment with a drug and human trafficking problem just to the south.  

Is that one person the same one that thinks global warming is a myth by any chance?

[mike 51]

1 hour ago, vamach1 said:

Sounds great in theory but as we have seen with other "global" problems the developed countries beat themselves up with controls and restrictions and we tell the rest of the world to get heir act together decades from now.  I see only one person who would have they guts to tell other countries to clean up their act now but he's a little busy at the moment with a drug and human trafficking problem just to the south.  

He's busy? 

Too funny!   

Edited January 3, 2019 by mike 51

[Flat32]

I 3D print my larger models in PLA plastic and it is biodegradable. I am intrigued by "modern" product packaging and how sophisticated it has become.  I appreciate most the intricate cardboard creations, dislike the huge clear plastic clamshell packages that require a tool to open. Absolutely hate foam peanuts even if they are the biodegradable version.

I'm biodegradable. Don't want to leave behind a bunch of forever trash. Don't particularly like my house being biodegradable while I'm using it.

[OldTrucker]

1 hour ago, stitchdup said:

Is that one person the same one that thinks global warming is a myth by any chance?

It's not a myth. but rather a natural phenomenon that has went on since the beginning of time! Warming and cooling!!

[vamach1]

12 minutes ago, OldTrucker said:

It's not a myth. but rather a natural phenomenon that has went on since the beginning of time! Warming and cooling!!

Yep.  Same scientists that said an ice age was coming soon.  Perhaps in a few hundred thousands years or maybe not.  Do we care?  Can we do squat about it?  No.  Far greater chance of our own demise being caused by a NATURAL disaster (like a super volcano) and then people killing each other over a scare food supply to survive.  I'm sure we can adapt to a few degrees change over time.  The poor countries may be SOL as they are woefully prepared for even minor disruptions.  Look at Venezuela -100% politically caused food shortages shows how vulnerable society can be.

[Xingu]

Please stay away from politics. Some of you are creeping up to the line. Discuss how this can/will impact our hobby.

(Trying to keep this in the General section and not move it to Off-Topic)

[HotRodaSaurus]

11 minutes ago, Xingu said:

Please stay away from politics. Some of you are creeping up to the line. Discuss how this can/will impact our hobby.

(Trying to keep this in the General section and not move it to Off-Topic)

That was the general idea Michael, I never realised so many were so passionate about things like this. In the UK we appear to go full on demonising everything when a well known personality sponsors it(David Attenborough). Also on out agenda is the demonising diesel motor vehicles. What is the connection here? That diesel fuel and motor vehicles are being are being taxed in a way to make these vehicles uneconomic to use, and will items containing a certain % of plastic also be unrealistically priced. Just my thoughts and yes will our models also be 'taxed' due to the % of plastic in the box ?

[Ace-Garageguy]

3 hours ago, Aaronw said:

...It makes where you live nicer that those areas where they poop in the street...

You mean like Paris and San Francisco now?

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Ace-Garageguy]

47 minutes ago, Xingu said:

... Discuss how this can/will impact our hobby.

I kinda doubt consumer goods will be much affected by an enforced reduction in packaging and other "disposable" plastic stuff.

They're not going to be making car interiors and phones out of walnut shells anytime soon, and probably not scale models either.

[espo]

Flat32 mentioned commercial packaging on store shelves. I agree with him on the plastic with one small exception, I have often used the flat pieces to make window glass in my models. I know that isn't going to save the world but it does suggest maybe we should see if there isn't a more practical way to deal with what's left when you unwrap what ever it is you just purchased.  

[#1 model citizen]

9 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

So the plastic used by Revell or Tamiya or any of the other model companies...is it virgin plastic or recycled? I would think a switch to recycled plastic would be a good thing. And I have to think that by now, at least one of the model companies would have looked in to this.

 

9 hours ago, TarheelRick said:

A local textile company has developed a clothing fabric using recycled plastic bottles.  Just saying, the next shirt you buy could have been made from that bottle of soda you drank a few days ago.  I do recycle as much as possible, it just seems the right thing to do.  Sure wish I could figure some way to turn my leftover sprues into kit plastic.

I have never seen any mention of recycling styrene. There is not a recycle number on the sprues or the packaging. The town I live in requires that we sort recycled waste (paper, plastic, glass, etc.) & provides 4-6 trash cans per residence to those that want to recycle. (Its cheaper to do so). They will only accept 1,2,5,7 plastics (the "profitable" recyclable plastics). No styrene. Years ago I remember an article somewhere that suggested that there on going research in making styrene recycling a reality. I have heard nothing since.    

Edited January 4, 2019 by #1 model citizen

[fumi]

17 minutes ago, #1 model citizen said:

I have never seen any mention of recycling styrene. There is not a recycle number on the sprues or the packaging... They will only accept 1,2,3,5,7 plastics (the "profitable" recyclable plastics). No styrene.  

Polystyrene is 6 or PS.  It is recyclable, just not profitable.

[Ace-Garageguy]

Styrene can be recycled multiple times, as many as 20, and still retain its properties.

Recycling of styrene foam products can be problematic as the volume to transport is very large for the amount of plastic recovered; it's mostly air.

However, there are more options for polystyrene recycling than many people are aware of. My local market, for example, has receptacles for both plastic shopping bags, and separate ones for styrene packaging.

More efficient and profitable ways of recycling the stuff are under constant development.

Here's more factual info re: styrene recycling.

https://youknowstyrene.org/green-styrene/recycling/

https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/polystyrene-recycling.htm

Edited January 4, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[stitchdup]

the expanded polystyrene can be used as a good filler for models when mixed with poly cement and it melts down much faster then chopped up sprue.

I would think that it may be able to be used in a modified mold to make model kits. I'm thinking some sort of heated metal mold in 2 parts that molds the bulky stuff down with heat and pressure.

[1930fordpickup]

I wonder if we will get to a point of very few sprue's in the kit we purchase. I think may be reduced by 50% at the most.  Every little it they can reuse than does not leave the plant the better. 

 

[Brett Barrow]

Plastics will eventually all become bio-degradable as there will be bacteria that will evolve that eat them.  There are now iron-eating bacteria that didn't exist when the age of iron ships began and are now eating away at iron shipwrecks. See the accelerating rate that the Titanic is disappearing.  It may take hundreds of years or it may take thousands or it may take millions but it will eventually happen.  Whether or not we're still here is a different question.  

#6 Styrene is the one that can be recycled, #7 is the tough or next to impossible one, can't remember exactly which formula model kits are made from.  Even the easily recycled versions of styrene cost more to recycle than to start fresh which is why it's rarely done.   

I seriously doubt any of it will ever affect model kit production as they are not considered disposable items.  

[Jantrix]

On 1/3/2019 at 6:45 AM, Snake45 said:

I've heard this many times, but I don't believe I've ever seen any pictures of such. 

A quick Google search will fix this.

[Anglia105E]

I agree with David from Kansas...... I bought a large chocolate birthday cake from Marks & Spencer which was ridiculously cheap because of the use by date, and I noticed the box had a very large window panel of clear plastic. This plastic is very clear and very good quality plastic, so I have used this material to make windscreens for my 1:24 scale Rolls-Royce Silver Cloud builds. The thickness of the plastic is so much more accurate than the plastic windscreen supplied in the kit box. There you go...... instead of all of the cake box packaging going in the waste bin, I have re-used 50% of it to build scale model cars!

The chocolate cake was very nice too !

David

[HotRodaSaurus]

5 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

I wonder if we will get to a point of very few sprue's in the kit we purchase. I think may be reduced by 50% at the most.  Every little it they can reuse than does not leave the plant the better. 

 

A guy into early models told me that during the 1950s/60s production runs the very early kits such as Revells 1/32 Ford, Buicks etc also the 1/25 Cadillac, Ford Country Squire, parts were manually removed and the excess sprue's were sent to be put back into the pot. Another thing was that the repops of these kits had to be put into slightly larger boxes as they(Revell) no longer employed people to do this.
Now it has gone as far as putting the kit into a standard Revell/AMT sized box to save even more $$$.
Cheers, J 

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, Brett Barrow said:

...#6 Styrene is the one that can be recycled, #7 is the tough or next to impossible one, can't remember exactly which formula model kits are made from...Even the easily recycled versions of styrene cost more to recycle than to start fresh which is why it's rarely done.   

Actually, #6 is "styrene", the polystyrene our kits are made of, as well as packing peanuts, foam cups and coolers, etc. But within the "styrene" category, there are hundreds of specific formulas that all have slightly different properties (like thermal stability, toughness, brittleness, solvent resistance, etc.).

#7 is "other" and includes BPA-containing plastics and polycarbonates in general, Lexan in particular, and a multitude of plastics that just don't fit in categories 1-6...including some that are plant-based.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[Scott Colmer]

We just got back from a visit to the Bishop Museum in Hawaii. The small bits of plastic floating around the ocean are SINGLE USE items likes straws and water bottle. They do break up and they get ingested by sea creatures who see them as food. Some, birds will send them out with with their regurgitated pellets. Baby birds it sometimes kills. I found a pellet on the beach with lots of plastic in it. I also found lots of litter on the same beach and on some secluded hiking trails. I packed out what I could carry. Did I drop it there? Can I change the world, No, but I can do my part. The trash was created one person at a time, It can  - eventually - be clean up that way too. My 2 cents. Scott

[#1 model citizen]

22 hours ago, fumi said:

Polystyrene is 6 or PS.  It is recyclable, just not profitable.

Thanks! That is good to know. I was surprised find out it is the same stuff as foam.

[espo]

5 hours ago, Scott Colmer said:

We just got back from a visit to the Bishop Museum in Hawaii. The small bits of plastic floating around the ocean are SINGLE USE items likes straws and water bottle. They do break up and they get ingested by sea creatures who see them as food. Some, birds will send them out with with their regurgitated pellets. Baby birds it sometimes kills. I found a pellet on the beach with lots of plastic in it. I also found lots of litter on the same beach and on some secluded hiking trails. I packed out what I could carry. Did I drop it there? Can I change the world, No, but I can do my part. The trash was created one person at a time, It can  - eventually - be clean up that way too. My 2 cents. Scott

Know that your efforts are appreciated by some.  

[Dave Ambrose]

A few random thoughts -- 

I used to frequently SCUBA dive off the coast of San Diego. I almost always came across trash. I usually grab it and bring it back with me. Plastic bags were the worst. Turtles mistake them for the jellyfish they like to eat and die because the plastic isn't digestible and blocks their intestine. I just had this, and it would be an awful way to go. Something similar happens with straws. We're coastal, and that's a big part of why single use bags are banned now. Straws are now by request only. Neither are big burdens. 

Looks like San Diego is going to ban polystyrene take-out containers. I think that'll be a good thing too. We don't see much of that while diving because it floats, and we don't want to float. But, it's a big item at beach cleanups. 

I also saw a lot of fishing gear in some places while diving. Fishermen lose it, and have no way to get it back. I usually cut that stuff lose and bring it back with me. 

Surfboards have largely switched from old style polyurethane foams and polyester resin to polystyrene foam and epoxy resin. Much nicer in a lot of ways, in large part because the boards are a lot lighter. Polystyrene doesn't use a lot of toxic chemicals in its production process.  This is vastly superior to the polyurethane foams that preceded it. It does need different construction methods that took a while to develop. 

The plastic injection molding companies in the LA area have all fitted traps on their building to capture stray pellets that were making their way into the storm drains. 

We're not perfect, or even good, but we're improving. Hopefully in time, or there will be some very posh sections of town underwater. 

[slusher]

Very interesting read guys,  like Tom I remember when we was learning about recycling in the mid 70's...