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Brutalform

I think I’m done with Duplicolor

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Posted (edited)

I’ve used Duplicolor paints on many builds, with great results. Lately, not so much. This 65 Ford was sanded with 3200, up to 4000 on the plastic, panel lines scribed and colored, then wiped with alcohol, and a tack cloth,  then primered with Tamiya gray, then sanded smooth up to 4000 again, wiped with alcohol, and a tack cloth. My paint room is 70* and showing 30% RH. I tested this color and the primer on a plastic spoon.  I’m glad I only did the trunk lid, and not the body.  I don’t know if this is from something I did incorrectly, or the paint?  The trunk lid came out like this with two light coats. The trunk looked just as the other parts in the primer, all prepped for color. 

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Edited by Brutalform

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Oh and the paint ....

F2D2A4F8-8483-4ECB-9BE6-23770F8114B7.jpeg

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Hmmmm, I just sprayed Dupli-Color outside today in 37 degree weather as I don't have room for a spray booth and it came out great.

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I sprayed this trunk lid inside. I have a hygrometer in my paint area so I know what the RH is. I’ve never had weird shapes come through the paint like this. Especially when the primer coat looked flawless. 

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Posted (edited)

Duplicolor has always been tricky to paint with for me. I think the issue is that it reacts with hobby plastics and primers. The only way I've found that really cures this is to either undercoat the paint with a similar shade of hobby lacquer first OR use Duplicolor primer sealer before painting, to my memory that has also helped.

 

I do share the frustrations though. They are super susceptible to humidity and the paint often crinkles and allows ghost lines to show through. I pretty much stick to TS Sprays now or a select few Testors Lacquers. 

Edited by DiscoRover007

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Could be the mixed use of Duplicolor and Tamiya primers. I've had mixed results when I have used the different brands together. I also started using Dupl. primer sealer over the primer sometimes.

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Over the years as being a "rattle can man" I have found Dupli-Color, Tamiya, Testors, MCW, Black Gold paints all compatible with each other.

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Could it be the plastic at fault?  I've had the same thing happen when I haven't been using duplicolour and it seems to happen more on tamiya and revell kits. I found giving a couple of coats of duplicolur plastic primer first stops it

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Posted (edited)

Looks to me like all you have is some mild blushing. Put a little toothpaste on a finger and see it it polishes off.

If it does, just wipe it all down again with alcohol and continue painting.

Polish the blush off at the end.

OR...if it's NOT blushing but crazing, the garbage plastic we're being given today is most likely the culprit. Some bottom-of-the-barrel Chinese cut-every-last-penny-of-cost-out goo that's not solvent resistant.

Either way, it's probably not the paint's fault.

And even if it IS crazing, you can let it harden up, sand it slick again with 800, and re-spray.

Do this repeatedly, it will almost certainly eventually stay down.

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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Probably sanded the primer down to a layer thin enough for the lacquer solvents in the Dupli-Color to bleed through.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Daddy Mack said:

Probably sanded the primer down to a layer thin enough for the lacquer solvents in the Dupli-Color to bleed through.

That's possible too...in which case it's crazing, and as I said above, let it harden up, sand lightly with 800 (you really don't need to go to 3200 or whatever prior to paint, by the way), and respray.

If I gave up on paint products or a particular paint job every time I had a problem, I would have quit doing this decades ago.

The hood below is Duplicolor over Duplicolor primer. The primer crazed the plastic. It also lifted the bodywork where I took the hood peak off. Then, when I finally got the primer to behave, the color blushed badly and again ate into the softer plastic where I'd removed surface details. 

But with some effort, it now looks like this...WITHOUT getting horribly heavy paint on the thing.

Image result for ace-garageguy 50 olds

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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I, too, haven't had good luck with a Tamiya primer/ Duplicolor paint combination. I suspect some sort of chemical incompatibility.

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Have you guys tried plasti-cote primer???? It's great stuff....

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24 minutes ago, Daddy Mack said:

Probably sanded the primer down to a layer thin enough for the lacquer solvents in the Dupli-Color to bleed through.

If it's not blushing, this would be my guess.

You need a highly impenetrable barrier before spraying a hot paint like this.

If the primer is too thin, the paint will eat right through it down to the plastic.

Also, some hobby primers can be a little troublesome with automotive lacquers.

I have had Testors primer problems under hot paints.

I use predominantly Duplicolor primer now, and lots of it!

 

Steve

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6 minutes ago, Deuces said:

Have you guys tried plasti-cote primer???? It's great stuff....

When it was available at auto-parts stores, it was my go-to for many years. A lot of us used it.

Recently though, Carquest was bought out by Advance, and Duplicolor replaced PlastiKote in the stores.

The PlastiKote stuff available online seems to be a continually-changing formula, and many of us have had such inconsistent results, we've pretty much written it off. The last batch I got was literally unusable for anything but garden tools.

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Posted (edited)

In general, I find it's becoming more challenging to get really good model-car paint jobs. Combine the cheapening and tinkering with many of the available automotive primer products (rattlecan) and the soft, less-solvent-resistant plastic many manufacturers are palming off on us these days, and you have a recipe for problems, if not outright disaster..

I personally refuse to complete a model if the paint isn't up to my kinda high standards, and whereas only a few years ago (2012) I knew exactly what I needed to do every time to get gorgeous paint, today, it's a never-ending series of surprises...and one large reason I don't finish anything.

I haven't had the time recently to experiment to be as SURE that what I use and how I use it will always work, so seeing the methods people who consistently produce top-quality (like Steve Guthmiller) is a great help.

But still, everyone has his own specific needs, and what may work perfectly for Steve every time may not be exactly the procedure I need to get my desired result.

So...individual experimentation is key. And sometimes, you just have to beat the model and the paint products into submission. B)

Edited by Ace-Garageguy

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1 hour ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

When it was available at auto-parts stores, it was my go-to for many years. A lot of us used it.

Recently though, Carquest was bought out by Advance, and Duplicolor replaced PlastiKote in the stores.

The PlastiKote stuff available online seems to be a continually-changing formula, and many of us have had such inconsistent results, we've pretty much written it off. The last batch I got was literally unusable for anything but garden tools.

The last can of white primer I bought at Ace hardware not far from me... I'm not sure if you guys have an Ace in your neighborhood... You might want to check it out...

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Posted (edited)

Did you shake the paint cans thoroughly? If the pigment isn't mixed completely with the base, you can get problems like sporadic crazing.

If it's just blushing (fogging), don't worry about it, just push on through. You can clear coat or polish and it'll all go away!

The best thing about using automotive touch up lacquer is that, if done right, is as durable as a real car once it's completely cured. You can wax and polish it with real car products and the finish will last for decades - maybe longer!

Edited by Oldcarfan27

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for all of the corrective suggestions everyone. I put the Ford away for now, and started at the Mopars. 

As Ace stated, it’s like a big surprise anymore when you paint. I didn’t stray from the steps I normally use when I paint. Some of my nicest paint jobs were done with Duplicolor. This AMT kit could very well be a cheaper repop. It’s not from the box with the burgundy box, but the newer stock car version. But lately Duplicolor has been acting funny every time I go to use it.

Steven, I was going to pick up a can of the Duplicolor sealer, and primer the other day. I didn’t buy them because what I was using WAS working. Maybe the primer I laid down is too thin, and it started attacking underneath. 

Im going to sand the trunk down, hit it with a few more very light coats, and see what happens. I’m definitely going to add the Duplicolor sealer and primer to my shipping list. 

Patrick, the can was shaken very well, and was warmed up also. 

Edited by Brutalform

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Well, Ace I did like you said, and it worked. After sanding, and re spraying, it laid down much better. You actually have to look at an angle to see the crazing. Looks good straight on. I’m going to hit it with clear in s few days, to see how it looks. 

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Chalk another user up as a big fan of Plastikote!

Particularly the sandable gray primer T-35. Yes, you can still get it albeit online as no one in my area seems to carry it anymore. And yes, the formula has changed just a bit as it may be slightly hotter than before, but I airbrush 'bout everything. This where I STRONGLY recommend again that one should be putting some kind of barrier coat on the plastic as the plastics of today CANNOT be trusted as they are not the same as they were in years past.

Everything (including plastics) has been cheapened to save money--------to our chagrin in not getting the results we used to get in years past.

Yes, it can be more work to do all of that, but it's just as much work if not more so to COMPLETELY strip a model body or part because of paint troubles. For me the trouble is very much worth it as IMO, a good paint job is THE most important part of building along with near flawless bodywork. It's the very first thing people will see once your model is on display and it won't matter how many bells and whistles the model has. Like Bill, I've stopped projects in the past due to bodywork or paint issues and won't continue with it till I sort it out. Thankfully because I do a bit of testing before I do any of that, those troubles are few and very far between.

Just my 2¢ worth........ ;)

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Thanks Bill. I do have Pastikote gray and white primer. I’ve never had any problems with the Tamiya primer until now, and the last two paint jobs, that I used Duplicolor over. 

Im going to use the plastikote next time, but I’m still going to pick up the Duplicolor primer like Steven suggested. 

It seems there like there are a few things working against me. Gotta just weed out the problems. I like Duplicolor because of the many color choices, and I don’t have an airbrush.  

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Duplicolor on Duplicolor Primer has always worked well for me..

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Yea, that’s what I’m gonna be using from now on.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

If it's not blushing, this would be my guess.

You need a highly impenetrable barrier before spraying a hot paint like this.

If the primer is too thin, the paint will eat right through it down to the plastic.

Also, some hobby primers can be a little troublesome with automotive lacquers.

I have had Testors primer problems under hot paints.

I use predominantly Duplicolor primer now, and lots of it!

 

Steve

Thanks for the advice Steve. I must have had a good luck streak using the primers I was using, up until now, my luck ran out. Then factor in the quality of plastics now, was just a recipe for disaster. 

Made a trip to the store today, and grabbed some Duplicolor primers.

I’ll be testing these on some of the many Starliner extra bodies I have lying around.  

Thsnks everyone... I appreciate all of the input. 

C6E47E9D-1541-4C77-90C9-22DEEC40E718.jpeg

Edited by Brutalform

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