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Ford big block ID help.


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I am planning to use this engine in my Cannonball Run vehicle. I was just going to call it a Ford big block. However as I start to clean it up it looks like the valve Covers or the heads are installed wrong.So I wonder if anyone here recognizes it and where it is from so I can get the instructions. Much appreciated.

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2 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Sorry I didn't get back to your PM earlier, but it looks like you found what you needed. This thread has some very helpful info on the differences in appearance of several of the FE pushrod engines.

 

Thanks Bill. Turns out it is a 460.

Edited by landman
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First, the oil pan is the wrong way around, the deep part of the sump goes at the front as it does on most Ford engines.
If you go by the oil filter placement this engine does not look like a FE, the FE has the oil filter further forward and hanging straight down from a separate oil filter adapter as the FE doesn't have an oil filter mount casting on the block, on the 385 family 429-460 the oil filter is mounted directy to the engine block, but not as far back as on this one and it should be angled more downwards.
Next clue is the transmission wich is a C6, the bellhousing is more round on the FE than on the 385 family and this seems to have more of the 385 family shape.
On a FE the intake manifold is part of the heads and go in under the valve covers so you have to remove the valve covers and the pushrods before you can remove the intake manifold, that's not the case on a 385 family where you can remove the intake manifold without removing the valve covers.
I'm very familiar with both engine familys as we race with a 385 family engine in our Super Comp dragster and I'm currently building a FE stroker for my 1963½ Ford Galaxie, so based on that this engine is most likely a 385 family 429-460 but a crude one.

Edited by Force
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On ‎2019‎-‎01‎-‎19 at 4:30 PM, Dave G. said:

If that's an fe it's a really poor rendition...

True, but that's the way amt rendered it 

 

78f35frdeng.jpg

A closer look at the subject of this discussion will help one see that the oil pan has been glued on backwards and the valve covers are positioned too far outward. No 385 series engine ever came with those log manifolds either. In the context of the original surrounding model, it would represent an FE 360/390.

Of course, being that it's Your model, Pat,  you reserve the right to call it whatever you want  :P

 

mike

Edited by mk11
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13 hours ago, mk11 said:

True, but that's the way amt rendered it 

 

78f35frdeng.jpg

A closer look at the subject of this discussion will help one see that the oil pan has been glued on backwards and the valve covers are positioned too far outward. No 385 series engine ever came with those log manifolds either. In the context of the original surrounding model, it would represent an FE 360/390.

Of course, being that it's Your model, Pat,  you reserve the right to call it whatever you want  :P

 

mike

In this schematic it shows the proper oil filter housing at least, I wonder if someone just glued the filter to the block on the model without knowing better.. The ears on the exhaust side of the heads need to be more prominent. But yes  that is an fe in this picture by the looks of it.

edit: oops,I missed the filter shown going to the block. In front of that on the front cover appears to be the fuel pump and that would be the correct location for an fe fuel pump. It's still  an fe layout but the oil filter mount is incorrect, there should be a housing to mount it to. The fe filter sits vertical not horizontal,.

Edited by Dave G.
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36 minutes ago, Dave G. said:

In this schematic it shows the proper oil filter housing at least, I wonder if someone just glued the filter to the block on the model without knowing better.. The ears on the exhaust side of the heads need to be more prominent. But yes  that is an fe in this picture by the looks of it.

It is like the instructions on the little block. I sanded it at an angle to get the effect Håkan described above.

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15 hours ago, junkyardjeff said:

Who ever designed it did not do a very good job.

No whatever it's supposed to be it's not good at all, if it's a bad 385 family engine it's an even worse representation of a FE as I see it, it's really not correct for any of them.

The 385 family did not have the exhaust manifolds pictured, they look more like FE, likewise for the valve covers as they look to have five bolts, two on the bottom and three on top, the 385 has six or seven, four on the bottom and two or three on top.
But the thermostat housing on the intake manifold looks like it's on top of the manifold pointing straight up as on the 385, the FE has the thermostate housing pointed straight forward, sometimes with an expansion tank and sometimes with an elbow that goes out in front for the hose, the water pump and timing chain cover also looks more like the 385, the 385 water pump mounts to the timing chain cover as the cover also is the rear part of the pump housing and the water goes through it into the block, on the FE the pump is separate and goes over the timing chain cover and mounts directly to the water jackets on the engine block and don't touch the timing chain cover at all.
The fuel pump is on the same side on both engines so you can't go by that to decide what engine it is, and as I said the oil filter is mounted directly on the block pointing slightly downwards on the 385 and vertical to a separate aluminum adapter on the FE as the FE blocks has no casting for an oil filter.
So most of the clues points to a 385 family 429-460 because if it's supposed to be a 332-428 FE it's a very bad rendering.
 

Edited by Force
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When you buy a bagful of engines you never know what you get until you take a closer look. I thing someone wanted a Boss 9 so he made one with a pair of valve covers. Anyone recognize the engine? Looks like a y-block to me, or a flathead.  Just curious

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3 minutes ago, landman said:

Thank you Stu. Found the instruction on the web, it is the 394 (or is supposed to be).

Just FYI, all the first-generation Olds OHV V8 engines built from 1949 through 1963/4 are pretty similar visually. 303, 324, 371 and 394 factory displacements, kit engines can easily be up- and back-dated to represent any of 'em.

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Just now, Ace-Garageguy said:

Just FYI, all the first-generation Olds OHV V8 engines built from 1949 through 1963/4 are pretty similar visually. 303, 324, 371 and 394 factory displacements, kit engines can easily be up- and back-dated to represent any of 'em.

Yeah, I just noticed that looking at several photos. And depending when AMT brought that out,it is likely earlier than the 394. Looks like all I need to put it back is a pair of valve covers. I could put the Boss valve covers in the diorama. No sense wasting anything. ^_^ By the way the photos of the original issues brought back some memories. I had built this as a kid and painted it red with black fenders to match the '48 Chevy my uncle was driving.

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On 1/21/2019 at 11:29 AM, Force said:

No whatever it's supposed to be it's not good at all, if it's a bad 385 family engine it's an even worse representation of a FE as I see it, it's really not correct for any of them.

The 385 family did not have the exhaust manifolds pictured, they look more like FE, likewise for the valve covers as they look to have five bolts, two on the bottom and three on top, the 385 has six or seven, four on the bottom and two or three on top.
But the thermostat housing on the intake manifold looks like it's on top of the manifold pointing straight up as on the 385, the FE has the thermostate housing pointed straight forward, sometimes with an expansion tank and sometimes with an elbow that goes out in front for the hose, the water pump and timing chain cover also looks more like the 385, the 385 water pump mounts to the timing chain cover as the cover also is the rear part of the pump housing and the water goes through it into the block, on the FE the pump is separate and goes over the timing chain cover and mounts directly to the water jackets on the engine block and don't touch the timing chain cover at all.
The fuel pump is on the same side on both engines so you can't go by that to decide what engine it is, and as I said the oil filter is mounted directly on the block pointing slightly downwards on the 385 and vertical to a separate aluminum adapter on the FE as the FE blocks has no casting for an oil filter.
So most of the clues points to a 385 family 429-460 because if it's supposed to be a 332-428 FE it's a very bad rendering.
 

So this is what I ended up with. It is going in my Vannonball vehicle.

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