73 Cutlass Supreme conversion

[fordf-100]

I am looking for some input on a project I recently started. I took a Revell 77 Monte Carlo roof and put it on a Jo-Han 73 Cutlass promo that was in very bad shape. This was mostly for practice but I don’t think it looks to bad! I wanted to see what you guys thought about proportions and general overall shape and look. I probably will remove the half vinyl roof and go with a full vinyl top as all the pics I have seen were full tops. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!

[espo]

With a little finish work I think this would look fine as is. On the Vinyl Roof question, it all depends on what you want it to look like. A full Vinyl Roof was the most common style at the time these were new. The Quarter Roof was part of the Landau trim option, and also many dealers added this style roof for added profit and if that was in style in their area.  Just build it the way you want it. 

[fordf-100]

Thanks! It didnt look to bad to me, all the ones that I looked at had full roofs so i thought I would go that way. I will look and see if I find any half roofs that were part of the landau trim, it would be a lot easier than doing a complete roof! I am trying this to learn some new stuff, everyone here on the forum does fantastic conversions so I tried this for some practice,  I need to work on my finishing and think more about mu cut lines.  

[MrObsessive]

EXCELLENT start Steve! We sure could use some GM 1973-77 A-bodies in the full glue kit lineup!

One thing I'd like to point out if you may.........while the A-Body Monte and the Cutlass were built on pretty much the same platform, the rooflines are similar but have some differences. The Monte particularly in the rear part of the roof is a bit more upright and has a bit smaller 'opera' window.

Here's a '76-'77 Cutlass Supreme..........

The back part of the roof has a bit more of a 'faster' angle than the Monte.

You're actually doing a long time wanted project I've had rolling around in my mind for years now!

I have about five or six of those Johan Olds.......I wanted to take the back part of the Monte roof after some mods and graft it on to the forward section of the Olds roof right at the B pillar. I'd like to do what was my Driver's Ed car in high school. A '77 Cutlass Supreme which was sort of a copper color with wheels like I have pictured.

Keep up the good work as you just don't see these cars at all on the roads anymore.  

[Oldcarfan27]

Off to a good start, looks good - especially for a "practice body"

I also started a Cutlass Supreme using the same parts, except mine is from a 75. I got the roof to fit, but I didn't like the boxiness of the Monte Carlo roof, so I'm in the process of reworking it to my satisfaction.

Problem with the Cutlass Supreme (75 at least) is there is a difference in the nose from that and the regular Cutlass. And a few trim differences.

74 ?

75 ☝

75 sport coupe?

See how the nose differs from the kit?

I don't know if the 73 is the same or not. I hope not, cause that would save you a lot of modifications. 

I wish I had a 73, I really like the front and rear bumpers on those. The Johan 73s are hard to find. Good luck with your conversion. 

 

[fordf-100]

Thanks guys! I never noticed the roof difference until you pointed it out, I always assumed they were the same. I might look into changing the angle a bit, any suggestions on what would be the easiest?

[Oldcarfan27]

I would leave it as it is, you're so far along.

But, if it bothers you enough, I took a slight vertical wedge out of the rear, top near the back window and leaned the back window area in. I also added a wedge of plastic into the B pillar to add some angle to it. Since you want to change the vinyl top anyway, you can make these mods while you're sanding off the roof and retrim it after all the bodywork is finished. Don't forget to fix the shape of the quarter windows, they're supposed to trapezoidal - not mail slots.

Here's a side profile to use for reference. 

Personally, I think Revell got the roof on the Monte Carlo all wrong - too boxy. But, it's the ONLY collonade landau roof we have, so you gotta make do with what you got.

[MrObsessive]

16 minutes ago, fordf-100 said:

 I might look into changing the angle a bit, any suggestions on what would be the easiest?

If it were me doing this, I'd make some kind of pie cut in the rear part of the roof and lay the rear glass (and part of the C pillar) forward a bit towards the front of the car.

The shape of the tulip panel is about the same with that familiar Bill Mitchell "W" shape it has, so you won't need too many mods there.

[MrObsessive]

1 minute ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

I would leave it as it is, you're so far along.

But, if it bothers you enough, I took a slight vertical wedge out of the rear, top near the back window and leaned the back window area in. I also added a wedge of plastic into the B pillar to add some angle to it. Since you want to change the vinyl top anyway, you can make these mods while you're sanding off the roof and retrim it after all the bodywork is finished. Don't forget to fix the shape of the quarter windows, they're supposed to trapezoidal - not mail slots.

Here's a side profile to use for reference. 

Personally, I think Revell got the roof on the Monte Carlo all wrong - too boxy. But, it's the ONLY collonade landau roof we have, so you gotta make do with what you got.

Ha! Great minds think alike as we posted at the same time!

Yeah, Revell's cowl I always thought was a bit too high also for a Monte.....Johan got that shape closer to correct (as they usually do with body shapes).

Actually, when I first saw the Revell Monte, other versions of those Colonnade coupes came to mind with that roof. Of course, the '76-'77 Cutlass...1976-'77 Buick Regal, 1973-'77 Pontiac Grand Prix. It's amazing that NONE of the kit manufacturers have ever touched any of those cars save for Johan with that Olds. Johan only did the 'fastback' style of the roof though and never any of the formal coupes.

[Oldcarfan27]

I saw that too, Bill. And we had the same advice, just mine's more "wordy"

I also have a long time on/off project converting a Cutlass into a 73 Buick Century Luxus, a car my parents had when I was growing up and always wanted a model of one. But since that's never going to happen, I decided to make one myself. I'll have to post it someday, but I didn't want to hijack Phil's thread right now.

[fordf-100]

Good tips guys, thanks! Patrick please post the pics you’re not hijacking the thread, would love to see them. I grew up with these body styles! While my brother and I had many muscle cars, Mach 1’s, several GTO,s , 2+2,s and 57 Chevys my daily driver was a 76 Grand Prix SJ, that was a great car! Would love to see some of those in plastic!

[Russell C]

The other guys beat me to it as well. My older brother has had his used '74 Cutlass since the early '80s, and I've long wanted to build a replica of it for him. Never got around to searching to see if anyone had done a resin with the proper opera window roof, Maybe with enough recutting / reshaping, you might end up with a master for resin casting?

[Oldcarfan27]

Here you go Phil. These are some older pics from a couple years ago. The body has primer on it now and I have a hood and bumpers shaped up to fit it. I'll try to find it and send you some updated shots. I used the 69 Olds 442 chassis and firewall for strength - both fit perfectly for it.

 

I'll post some shots of my Cutlass Supreme project soon, too.

[Repstock]

My problem is the Monte Carlo is scaled so much larger than the Cutlass. It'll take an artist to get that top to look right on the (in 1/25 scale) much smaller Cutlass.

[disabled modeler]

Tom... I like where its going...keep at it you will nail it.  we once owned a 73 ? Hurst Olds Cutlass Id love to make a replica of someday.

[fordf-100]

7 hours ago, Oldcarfan27 said:

Here you go Phil. These are some older pics from a couple years ago. The body has primer on it now and I have a hood and bumpers shaped up to fit it. I'll try to find it and send you some updated shots. I used the 69 Olds 442 chassis and firewall for strength - both fit perfectly for it.

 

I'll post some shots of my Cutlass Supreme project soon, too.

Patrick that looks awesome! I owned a 74 back in the day! The roof looks way better than mine I think I will try and lean the back window forward. Please post some more pics, I really like it!

[MrObsessive]

Interesting little back story about these cars. They were designed with anticipation of the new Federal rollover standards that GM got wind of in the early '70's when these cars were on the drawing board. Bill Mitchell came up with the "colonnade" style as a compromise between a true hardtop and a pillared sedan or coupe.

While there is a "B" pillar in the car, it's styled so that it blends in with bodywork and not just a post stuck in the middle of the car. They designed the four doors too somewhat the same way. There was a center pillar, but it was not intrusive looking and the doors were still frameless lending to the nice clean look.

Interesting though that GM would hang on to true four door hardtops through '76 (full size) and those cars (all divisions) are collectible now.

Too bad there aren't true hardtops being made today. I've always liked the appearance of them better than a sedan and for me because I'm tall, I have better visibility out of them without that way too thick pillar blocking my peripheral vision. Especially in a four door since the doors are shorter and I need the seat as far back as possible!

Edited March 23, 2019 by MrObsessive

[Oldcarfan27]

43 minutes ago, MrObsessive said:

Interesting little back story about these cars. They were designed with anticipation of the new Federal rollover standards that GM got wind of in the early '70's when these cars were on the drawing board.

Standards that never came to pass. That's also the same reason they got rid of the convertibles too.

[Can-Con]

12 hours ago, Repstock said:

My problem is the Monte Carlo is scaled so much larger than the Cutlass. It'll take an artist to get that top to look right on the (in 1/25 scale) much smaller Cutlass.

I thought they were the same scale. [1/25] I never noticed the kit looking bigger than it should be. 

I've always said there's something wrong with the greenhouse of that kit though. But I can't quite put my finger on what it might be. Opera windows not quite right maybe? Door window shape is definitely off.

[Daddy Mack]

On 3/22/2019 at 3:26 PM, fordf-100 said:

 I never noticed the roof difference until you pointed it out, I always assumed they were the same.

They are the same roof and same back window. Same windshield. Same door windows. Same frame, same floor pans, same firewall etc, etc, etc. In fact, the frame ended up under the downsized 1977 GM B & C-bodies.  That 1973-1977 A/G-body frame was used all the way through 1996 on the Buick Roadmaster, Caprice, 94-96 Impala SS and Fleetwood Brougham and all the RWD LeSabres, Electras, 88s and 98s, Catalinas, Bonnevilles etc that came in between 1977 and 1996.

[MrObsessive]

Hmmm.........I dunno Earl....

Not meaning to sound too contrary, but here's a couple side shot pics of the Monte and the Cutlass. Maybe it's the way I'm seeing it but it looks to me that Chevy made the trailing part of the Monte's C pillar a bit more "formal", while the Cutlass seems to be leaned in a bit more.

Now the rear side windows are definitely different as Patrick mentioned. The Cutlass has trapezoidal shaped windows while the Monte's are more parallel. I suppose it's in the eye of the beholder, but looking at the 1:1 roof and Revell's Monte, Revell's is definitely waaaay off.

Interesting about the chassis too........don't its origins date back to the original '64 design? GM sure got a LOT of use out of that platform in that it was around till '96.

[Daddy Mack]

31 minutes ago, MrObsessive said:

don't its origins date back to the original '64 design? 

The 1973 GM A/G body frame was an all new design, different than 1972 and before. New control arms, spindles, steering linkage, crossmember.

ALL the 1973-77 A/G bodies used the same back windows and the same roof panels. The C-pillar opera windows are all the same glass. The only difference is the size/shape of the opening in the C-pillar and the C-pillar is part of the quarter panel stamping. The roof-to-quarter panel seam is at the top of the C-pillar. I do know what i'm talking about. All i have ever owned is RWD GM products, over 125 of them, including probably a dozen 1973-77 A and G body cars, including several 1975-76 Laguna S-3s. In fact there are 2 1973-77 A bodies on the ranch here, right now

[Kris Morgan]

Nice start to a cool car.

[MrObsessive]

It's probably that quarter window shape that changes the appearance (for me). It's also interesting that there were several different shapes for that between the divisions. The Grand Prix had its own 1/4 window shape, then the Chevelle, Lemans and Century had its own shape (shared). Lots of variety back in those days.........something they don't do much anymore between the same type cars. Of course we're short two divisions now too.

I think I've owned a car from every country that makes them (mainstream) in the world except France. Never a Citroen, Simca, or Peugeot among 'em. I've lost track of how many cars I've owned since the '70's!

[Repstock]

14 hours ago, Can-Con said:

I thought they were the same scale. [1/25] I never noticed the kit looking bigger than it should be. 

I've always said there's something wrong with the greenhouse of that kit though. But I can't quite put my finger on what it might be. Opera windows not quite right maybe? Door window shape is definitely off.

I guess what I mean is they are different sizes. The Monte Carlo has a 116" wheelbase and is 213" long, the Cutlass (2 door) has a 112" wheelbase and is 207" long. I don't think that top is a direct swap. If you line it up with the windshield, it will probably extend too far onto the trunk area. Having said that, I will admit I've never tried it!