A Idea for NASCAR

[ranma]

With all the new safety features on the new car's  I think NASCAR could/should start a new type of race. These would be special event type races, and would be 10-15 races per year. The cars would all be either late 1969- 1974 Vintage looking auto's with the retro also being the colors/numbers of each car The whole set up could be called  NASCAR Classic series. what do you fella's think? I talking about when the cars looked like these.

Edited April 15, 2019 by ranma

[Dave Van]

Or maybe 1950's era looking cars!!!!

[The Junkman]

Personally, I'd settle for modern, safety featured innards (COT being an example) with bone-stock bodies and aero mods for high speed stability at the appropriate tracks.  Just putting a Chevy sticker or a Ford sticker on the front of the same body means nothing as far as fan identification with the product.  Just change the engine and last week's Ford becomes this week's Toyota.  The Mustang/Camaro of this year is a move in the right direction.  I know they've been pushing the NBA idea-the players are the attraction and the vehicle is just that-a vehicle.  How's that been working for them?

Edited April 14, 2019 by The Junkman

[Greg Myers]

And retro engines with carburetors too 

[Dragonhawk1066]

3 hours ago, Dave Van said:

Or maybe 1950's era looking cars!!!!

I love this build. Awesome idea!

[Dave Van]

1 hour ago, Dragonhawk1066 said:

I love this build. Awesome idea!

Thanks!!! 

[OldTrucker]

Cool stuff there Dave!

[espo]

21 hours ago, ranma said:

With all the new safety features on the new car's  I think NASCAR could/should start a new type of race. These would be special event type races, and would be 10-15 races per year. The cars would all be either late 1969- 1974 Vintage looking auto's with the retro also being the colors/numbers of each car The whole set up could be called  NASCAR Classic series. what do you fella's think? I talking about when the cars looked like these.

I think it would be a great idea especially if they raced in the old format instead of the three races in one that they have now. The first two photos look like the old Riverside Raceway, now shopping center, at the end of the S's into the hard right hander going uphill. Being a much older fan I remember just how easy it was to relate to the cars on the track. Today not so much. Most other sanctioning bodies have Vintage races and I agree that NASCAR could benefit from the same type of races. 

[CapSat 6]

I had been thinking something along these lines...how far away from the original intent would we be getting if there was a modern spec chassis (with an emphasis on safety), repro parts for the bodies (and making the bodies look as stock as possible), any engine that could have been had in that car line in any year? It could get expensive to use muscle-era bodies, but then again, if a rusted non-numbers car (307 Malibu, 302 Torino, 318 Belvedere, etc.) could be found, then the basic structure could be used, and for some of these cars, repro fenders, quarters, rockers & trim could be used.    

Maybe the emphasis should be on "the show" as opposed to competition, so that there isn't an entire field of Hemi and Boss 429 powered aero specials. Finding "the best package" should be discouraged. Maybe race on semi-road courses instead of strictly ovals. I'd like to see as many makes, models and years racing as possible. Variety would make this or break this.  

As much as possible should be done to control costs - maybe make it so that older Cup cars could be obtained relatively cheaply and rebodied for the series. In my mind, it should be a hobby series, as opposed to a step in the competition ladder.  

Done right, this could be a real attraction.

[Richard Bartrop]

I think it could work, expecially if you play up the whole retro experience.  Encourage people to dress in period costume, and get some classic rock and country bands to play before the actual race.

[Jim N]

I see a number of problems with this idea.  The first is that NASCAR would be creating another racing series.  Almost every MENCS race already has a Truck, Xfinity or an ARCA support race.  How would this series fit in with an already full race weekend? 

These cars will attract an already shrinking fan base.  The people who drove these cars new are in their 60's, 70's and older.  People like me who admired them are in their 40's through 60's.  NASCAR already has one of the oldest demographics in sports.  This does not help them attract a younger audience.

Lastly, these cars will have to run a spec engine and chassis to keep the racing affordable.  The bodies will have to be fiberglass.  However, the puritans of the sport will have a field day.  NASCAR has run a 100 inch wheelbase since the early 1980's.  The 69 through 74 cars ran on a 115 inch wheelbase.  On top of the fact that the puritans will complain that Chrysler will not have Hemi's, Ford will not have the 427, etc. 

A nice topic to talk about on an internet forum, but very little practicality.

[CapSat 6]

23 minutes ago, Jim N said:

I see a number of problems with this idea.  The first is that NASCAR would be creating another racing series.  Almost every MENCS race already has a Truck, Xfinity or an ARCA support race.  How would this series fit in with an already full race weekend? 

These cars will attract an already shrinking fan base.  The people who drove these cars new are in their 60's, 70's and older.  People like me who admired them are in their 40's through 60's.  NASCAR already has one of the oldest demographics in sports.  This does not help them attract a younger audience.

Lastly, these cars will have to run a spec engine and chassis to keep the racing affordable.  The bodies will have to be fiberglass.  However, the puritans of the sport will have a field day.  NASCAR has run a 100 inch wheelbase since the early 1980's.  The 69 through 74 cars ran on a 115 inch wheelbase.  On top of the fact that the puritans will complain that Chrysler will not have Hemi's, Ford will not have the 427, etc. 

A nice topic to talk about on an internet forum, but very little practicality.

I don't necessarily disagree with these statements. Here's what I would say to address them:

1) Limited schedule. This would not be a competition series, it would be an exhibition series. Maybe 6 races during the whole season, put in at some of the least busy and most historic tracks (although there goes my "run them on road courses" idea...). It would be to attract more attention to the whole thing. If I knew they were doing something like this, I'd be more likely to come out for one of these races. As it is, I'll admit it- I'm kind of bored with the whole series right now.  

2) Shrinking / graying fanbase- I get that. I also get that right now, Muscle Car era cars are cool with pretty much every demo (thank you, Vin Diesel!). The old timers will want to show up & they'll drag their kids along (who are my age- twist my arm, Dad!), especially if these care are running big blocks, however mild they are. Big blocks make a great sound under full song. The more I think about this, the more interested I am in it!

3) I think they have run 110" since around 1980, before they used to run a 115" wheelbase. Maybe a newer chassis can be lengthened by 5" cheaply enough, or the front suspension mounts could be moved forward. There are several companies that are making new sheet metal for many of these cars, including roofs, you can buy nearly a whole 1969 Charger unit body right now. Perhaps one or more of these companies can develop a body skin package to use. I would imagine all you would really need is a roof, quarters, front fenders, bumpers, decklid, hood & grille, everything else could be fabricated. As long as it still looks relatively stock (no roof chop, or weird sectioning), that would be with the spirit of the thing. I think as long as you had a stock appearing body and a make-appropriate big block, there would be few complaints about the suspension configuration. All you would need is maybe a dozen cars for such a race. Oh, and old-style pit stops: at least one round of pits stops, with no tech after 1980 used...    

If I had some extra cash, I would want to build one of these cars just for fun. Fly down a track in one of these cars once in awhile- sign me up! I'm sure you could find about a dozen 1:1 hobbyists who might be willing to build up some Mopars, Fords, GM and maybe an AMC Matador out of some of their spare parts to play with 6 times a year. If they didn't want to drive, maybe some of your retired racers would turn a wheel in one of these once in awhile (like the Legends Series).     

There would be no need to make this a competition series, it would really be more of an exhibition series in my mind. The Legends cars (prewar coupes) some years back created some excitement. Since then, the market, if anything, has absorbed more of the old NASCAR culture, and it seems to me that this could be a welcome addition.

Nothing else they are doing right now seems to be working...  

Now I want to go build a model of one. Dave Van, I'll race that Shoebox of yours in a Mopar some time soon...

[Richard Bartrop]

Or, if you want to make Nascar more relevant to modern times, how about going back to making it an actual stock car race?

Instead of limiting the cars to 70s tech, how about we open things up a little?  Outside of safety standards, anything goes.  You build cars in North America, you get to play.  Front drive, rear drive, gas, electric, nuclear, whatever you think will do the job, but with the qualifier that you have to build 10,000 of them.  That number can be adjusted up or down, but the idea is instead of some competition special, what you race is an actual production vehicle.  Just to make things interesting, and a little more relevant whatever you run have to meet current emission standards, measured right after the race just in case someone tries to pull a Volkwagen.

 

What do you think?

[iamsuperdan]

1 hour ago, Richard Bartrop said:

Or, if you want to make Nascar more relevant to modern times, how about going back to making it an actual stock car race?

Instead of limiting the cars to 70s tech, how about we open things up a little?  Outside of safety standards, anything goes.  You build cars in North America, you get to play.  Front drive, rear drive, gas, electric, nuclear, whatever you think will do the job, but with the qualifier that you have to build 10,000 of them.  That number can be adjusted up or down, but the idea is instead of some competition special, what you race is an actual production vehicle.  Just to make things interesting, and a little more relevant whatever you run have to meet current emission standards, measured right after the race just in case someone tries to pull a Volkwagen.

 

What do you think?

I think you've just described the British Touring Car Championship series.  

Basically stock shells, safety additions. Front drive, rear drive, all wheel drive. Hatchback, sedan, wagon. Working wipers, headlights, etc. Proper doors. Totally recognizable as the car they are based on, because they ARE the car they're based on. 

Currently my fav type of racing.

http://www.btcc.net/

 

[mike 51]

I agree they're my favorite too (the BTCC)..

.though the graphics make it hard to tell what kind of car they are sometimes..

I gave up on NASCAR several years ago...

Edited April 16, 2019 by mike 51

[espo]

Now that is racing. With some of the Turbo 4's and 6's we see today and front wheel or even AWD systems that could be very interesting and far more relevant than what passes for "Stock Car" racing today.   

[niteowl7710]

Opening up the cars to more manufacturers is the whole point of the Gen 7 cars that are supposedly being worked on for 2021/2022.

If people really want STOCK CAR racing, the best thing Jim France could possibly due is fold NASCAR into IMSA and make everyone race GT3/GT4/TCR type of vehicles.  Cut the schedule in half and GM, Ford & Toyota already all participate in IMSA. 

Customer Racing, IMSA/Le Mans, Super GT/DTM and the various Touring car series offer far more entertaining racing than any snoozefestival NASCAR is currently producing.  Not to mention it's a heck of a lot more fan friendly and economically viable for fans.  The IMSA race at Watkins Glen is $85@ for the entire weekend, the Blancpain GT World Challenge America race there is $70@ for the entire weekend.  The CHEAPEST available tickets for the NASCAR race are $300@ for the whole weekend, or $120@ for just the race on Sunday.

[Dave Ambrose]

The last vintage race I attended had a NASCAR division that was populated by all sorts of retired NASCAR racers. It was a lot of fun to watch. Sadly, we no longer have a Coronado Speed Week, and I have to find some other venue. Monterey is doable, but expensive. 

[randyc]

9 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

Opening up the cars to more manufacturers is the whole point of the Gen 7 cars that are supposedly being worked on for 2021/2022.

If people really want STOCK CAR racing, the best thing Jim France could possibly due is fold NASCAR into IMSA and make everyone race GT3/GT4/TCR type of vehicles.  Cut the schedule in half and GM, Ford & Toyota already all participate in IMSA. 

Customer Racing, IMSA/Le Mans, Super GT/DTM and the various Touring car series offer far more entertaining racing than any snoozefestival NASCAR is currently producing.  Not to mention it's a heck of a lot more fan friendly and economically viable for fans.  The IMSA race at Watkins Glen is $85@ for the entire weekend, the Blancpain GT World Challenge America race there is $70@ for the entire weekend.  The CHEAPEST available tickets for the NASCAR race are $300@ for the whole weekend, or $120@ for just the race on Sunday.

Well, you made my post for me.   Some of the global sports car series seem way more "STOCK CAR" than the mess that is current NASCAR.  And a lot of thise guys are like the old NASCAR guys, trailerinig to the races on weekends, working a day job during the week.  Racing for love of racing on a budget.  

I went to VIR a few times and LOVED the whole experience.   Even with the Daytona Prototypes, there was rock star access to the paddock.   Couldn't get on pit road during the race, but walking up to the cars and garages to take photos was excellent.  Now make a retro series, run it through some other sanctioning body.   Something tied in with other forms of vintage racing.  

 

[oldcarfan]

I'd watch that! As far as modern NASCAR, I wish they would either keep the chassis and use a stock body or provide each team with a body-in-white and have them build a car on that. I would also prefer they drop horsepower and speed by maybe 25% so they can actually race.

[ZTony8]

I'd be wary of dropping too much speed from the cars. I was at an ARCA race at Michigan Speedway back in the Nineties and those cars were lapping at about 165 m.p.h. They looked so slow it looked like they were dragging an anchor behind them.

[1930fordpickup]

1 hour ago, ZTony8 said:

I'd be wary of dropping too much speed from the cars. I was at an ARCA race at Michigan Speedway back in the Nineties and those cars were lapping at about 165 m.p.h. They looked so slow it looked like they were dragging an anchor behind them.

I get what you are saying about the speed, but all we hear about is safety  from the announcers at every race.  I am sure hitting a wall at 145 - 165 is safer than 180 - 195. 

[Jim N]

 

The argument that current NASCAR race cars are not stock enough is really getting old.  This is a picture of the current Camaro street car compared to the race car.  The ONLY differences are that the race car is slightly taller and longer.  That's it.  I saw a similar picture of the Camry a couple of years ago.

[Brian Austin]

In recent years I'd been musing on a similar idea, but with '50s/'60s bodies (back when "doorhandle-to-doorhandle racing" involved actual doorhandles.) :-P

The course of this discussion reminded me of a 3/4-size NASCAR-type racer series.  How about rebodying these cars in replica vintage bodywork?

I am also reminded of a rather short-lived Super Touring racing series of 1996 and 1997 that saw Dodge Stratus racers competing among imports, all based on production sedans.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Brian Austin
Edited "half-scaled" to "3/4-sized"