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Building The 1/25 <deleted>...a 72 Nova street car...


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As some of you may have seen in my introductory post, my planned project involves recreating the 1:1 car that I "crew chief" on...it is a 72 Nova, that, (up until the end of last season), was a naturally-aspirated 421 SBC/TH350 powered car running 9.60s in the 1/4 mile on a 275 tire...

When she returns from the fab shop, (with mini tubs & rear firewall, a rear wing, 'chute & mount, and SFI Spec 25.5C updates to the rollcage among other things), we'll put the 565 BBC/'Glide in, finish this season's upgrades, and see if she'll go 8.50s on a 10.5" tire (with license plates) Devil...

I'll post my build updates here in this thread...

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  • Dave Ambrose changed the title to Building The 1/25 <deleted>...a 72 Nova street car...

Thanks for the encouragement on both fronts Dave...hopefully the 1:1 car will be back in our hands in a couple/few weeks, and we can begin the re-assembly and finish the planned upgrades...I might reach out to you for a tip or three on the 1/25 doppelganger, if that's ok with you...on to the build...

 

After initially purchasing the AMT #1142M/12 "Old Pro" 72 Nova kit at a not so local LHS, I was disappointed in it's quality...the first issue I had with it, is that there is no "not-SS" option in the kit (the [deleted] is a plain Jane)...even worse, (since I will be doing a highly detailed build, and opening the doors and trunk lid), I noticed the the Old Pro's molds are apparently so worn that there are no longer any upper door frames at all...so, back to the search for a victim...

A little research turned up Revell's #85-4274 '69 Chevy Nova COPO, which has "not-SS" components...actually locating one turned into a weeks long search...once I got it, I was pleased to see my project's basic needs met, and will simply convert it to a 72 with the trim & lamp changes needed...

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I've started collecting the materials needed for the project...lots of brass tubing in various sizes: I'll be fabbing subframe connectors, a front clip, tubular radiator support, upper and lower control arms, and a roll cage with it...I found extra floor pans and frames on Ebay to facilitate making the mini tubs and trunk area with...they'll also let me cut a front subframe section out, so I can make a jig of sorts to fab the front clip with...

And-so-it-begins.jpg

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I've made a little progress: one of the extra chassis pans I tracked down has been sacrificed to the "Gods of Modification"...using the same method used to open doors and trunk lids (repeatedly scribing the cut line with the back of a #11 blade), I removed the rear wheel wells, and the front subframe along with the trans crossmember...

The rear wheel wells will be used to mini-tub the chassis pan I'll be using in the final build, and the front subframe will be used to determine the dimensions of the tubular front clip and trans crossmember that I'm going to fab (once I make a jig to build it on)...

I'm waiting for parts that are on order to proceed further with both of these portions of the build: I need the rear tires for the mini-tubbing, and the BBC/Glide package that will be used...below are shots of the carved up chassis pan & parts, the 1:1 subject's mini-tub basically done, and the Smith Racecraft tubular front clip...

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So, as anyone who's been watching this build knows, my chosen fabrication medium is brass for the rollcage, front clip/subframe, A-arms, transmission crossmember, (and now, a rear anti-roll bar setup)...I plan on fabbing, the trunk mounted fuel cell, front & mid mount plates, front accessory mount plate, and subframe mount bushings from aluminum (the same material those items are fabbed from on the 1:1 car)...thankfully, I'll get to replicate the rear firewall/bulkhead and package tray from styrene, since they're getting painted: I was racking my brain trying to figure out how to do the "paneling" they did instead of rolling beads...

Anyhow, while I was awaiting delivery of the powertrain and rear tires I ordered, I decided to make my first attempt at scale model rollcage fabrication, since everything else (fabrication-wise) at this point is held up...first thing to do was to decide on the sizes of brass tubing I needed to do it with...

The NHRA rules require the 1:1 rollcage structure to be made of 1.75" (44.45mm) diameter tubing, with a couple allowances for ancillary braces to be of 1.625"  (41.275mm) tubing...in 1:25 scale, these sizes translate to 0.070" (1.778mm) and 0.0650" (1.651mm) respectively...to ease the fab process, I decided to only use one size of tubing to make the cage, as the difference in diameters would be nearly imperceptible in scale...so, going with the 0.070" measurement (for the 1.750" 1:1 spec), I attempted to cross it over to available K&S fractional sizes...the closest fractional measurement to 0.070" is 5/64" (which they don't offer), and then 1/16" or 3/32" (which they DO offer)...1/16" looked way too small, so I went with the 3/32" tubing...it still looks a bit spindly to me, but I'm going to roll with it...

After mangling a section of tubing by attempting to hand bend it, the next thing was to figure out how to bend it without distorting it in the bends...Since there isn't a commercially available bender for this diameter that I could find, I surfed the web...the bends that you see below in my first 1:25 cage try were made utilizing a bending method I found somewhere online (I've surfed so much looking for a way to make satisfactory bends, I can't remember where...it might have been here, lol)...it's rather simple, using a bolt, some washers, a nut, and a small scrap of tubing or a drill bit of the same size you're bending on the side opposite the bend to keep the washers level while bending...I used 3/8" hardware, as it seemed that that inside radius was versatile enough to use in multiple places...it's a little fiddly to work with, but the main drawbacks to this bending method (in my eyes) are a lack of indexing and repeatability...after alittle brainstorming, I found some 3/8" stainless steel washers that measured 3/32" when two were stacked together...I bolted them together between a pair of common fender washers, and drilled two 1/8" holes through the stack...I then riveted the two stainless washers together, and cut a small wedge that included the riveted section so that it's inner end lines up with the edge of the 3/8" bolt...then I took out the rivets, restacked the wedge between the fender washers, riveted them all back together, and put a bolt back through it all, with two nuts (to help keep the side opposite the rivets tight) through the assembly...now I can make an almost 180 degree bend, without being so fiddly...it's not indexable (yet), and requires some concentrated eyeballing to replicate bends, but it will work for now...

The Nova has a main hoop/roof hoop type cage in it, but I wanted to try the main hoop/A-pillar style of cage to establish roughly where the "landing points" are going to be, with less pieces to make...that attempt is what you see in the pics below (made with the original version of the "bender")...I'll wait until the second Nova kit arrives (that one is the "Yenko" version) before cutting the only body and inner door panels I have for final location of the front legs...in a small deviation from the 1:1 car, I'm going to hinge the doors like a fiberglass door on a 1:1 race car would be, so the location of the A-pillar legs is critical...like the final version of the rollcage will be, it is intentionally built tall, so that I can drill into the interior floor pan and finalize it's height with a nice tight fit to the interior before final assembly...

Exploratory cage attempt, the beginning of my subframe jig, and the original iteration of the "bender"

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Another view of the exploratory cage attempt

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The original iteration of the "bender" (disassembled), and the assembled "improved" version (I didn't think to take pics of it's making, sorry)

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I've built some pretty elaborate roll cages from sytrene rod.  I use rod in lieu of tubing to prevent kinking at the bends.  Brass tubing works great as well if that is material you prefer.   I'll be following your progress, looks like a great project.  

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On 6/2/2019 at 9:10 AM, afx said:

I've built some pretty elaborate roll cages from sytrene rod.  I use rod in lieu of tubing to prevent kinking at the bends.  Brass tubing works great as well if that is material you prefer.   I'll be following your progress, looks like a great project.  

Thanks afx, I really hope my haphazard progress can hold your interest...there are so many talented modelers here, I can only hope to approach their quality of build (this is my first build after a 30-year hiatus)...I chose to fab from brass because of the first item I bought when I was considering this project...at that point, I was undecided as to whether I would even take this project on, and was simply surfing, seeing what was available to enhance the build...then, I ran across the item that made my choice for me: 1:25 scale WORKING ball joints!!!...a limited production item made by RB Motion, they fall into his "one off" or "experiments" category of products...since the build required fabbing tubular control arms, my train of thought went "These tiny works of art deserve a better place to live than styrene a-arms...I'll do them in brass"...which in turn lead to, "and if I'm going to do the a-arms in brass, the front clip and tubular core support should be brass too"...and on and on...hence, my choice was made for me, lol

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On 6/4/2019 at 6:53 AM, afx said:

Brass is a good choice if you have the skills to work with it Bob, unfortunately I don't.  Looking forward to your progress.

I guess I'll find out if I do JC, lol...so far, I'm not displeased with my efforts, but, for me, patience while traversing the learning curve will be the key...

 

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So a quick update on this week's progress...my time at the bench each night has been pretty limited this week...I did a bit more research on mini-tubbing the 1:1 3rd Gen Novas, mainly to get a better feel for the minor frame rail modifications that it entails...I expect to have one side fit by the end of the weekend, and will post details then...

Moving along to another issue I need to figure out how to overcome...because the kit has a chassis pan, and an interior pan, cutting the doors open will leave the inner rocker, and the floor too high...perhaps more brainstorming is needed (suggestions are definately welcome), but right now I'm considering simply sanding the top of the chassis pan and the bottom of the interior floor pan until it aligns properly...hopefully it won't "break through" in the floor pan areas that are depressed for your feet...I think I'll go buy a cheap micrometer at Harbor Freight this weekend to see just how far I can sand without sanding through those areas...it'll also help me determine how far it needs to be dropped...this also may require extending the quarter window trim and kick panels to meet the floor...

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Thanks gasser59...I really hope the build turns out as I envision...

Well, here's a little "how I'm doing it" regarding the 1:25 Nova's mini tubs...
The very first thing you want to do is RESEARCH!!! I surfed the 'net for a week
or so, watching videos, and saving pictures from multiple sources for
reference...access to your 1:1 subject would be ideal, but in my case, that really
isn't possible, since the owner of my subject vehicle has no clue I'm doing this
(and the Nova's mini tubs and other upgrades are just being finished up now)...

I measured the width of the Revell 69 COPO kit's rear frame rails where they
meet the floor pan's underside (being an injection molded part, the rails are not
"square" but widen at that juncture), and cut some strips of masking tape to
match...then, using one of those cheap LED miniature flashlights, I shined the light
through the chassis pan and laid the masking tape to match the inner edge of the
frame rails, providing a "guide" for positioning the new wheel tub "extensions"
that I cut from one of the spare chassis pans I had sourced from Ebay...

Next, I laid some masking tape inside the floor pan's wheelhouse to provide a cut line,
leaving the outer wheelhouse behind...then, just like the first steps when doing a
1:1 mini tub, I removed the inner wheel house to the frame rail, leaving the outer
wheel house in place...I learned a couple of things regarding how much to trim out
removing the "stock" inner wheelhouse, the left side installation should be much cleaner,
requiring less putty (I hope,lol
)...

Then, I colored the inside of the tub extension with a black Sharpie, laid it over
the opening I just cut, and scribed a rough cut line where the two wheel houses
should mate up...now it's a matter of file/sand/fit until the new inner wheel tub
fits correctly...I guess its probably time to buy some glues for this project, does anybody have
recommendations?

The rear tires from Fireball Modelworks arrived early last week (MT Drag
Radials in 275/60-15 and 315/60-15), so now I can be absolutely sure I'm
building the tubs to fit the 315s, which the 1:1 car is being built for (although we are
going to start out with a 10.5 tire, which I haven't been able to source)...I can't
recommend the Fireball Modelworks tires highly enough: real rubber
(convincingly sticky too!), and excellent detailing, right down to the correct
"tread" and the major sidewall markings...I wish my phone could take an
acceptable picture of them...now I can make sure that the tire fit is correct as
I'm fitting the tubs...

Before I fill, and finish the mini tub installation (and repair the spot in the right
frame rail that I nipped with the chuck of my Dremel), I guess I'd better order
the FAB9 rear next, so that I can make the necessary frame rail mods for leaf spring
relocation, which will also require removal of the gas tank (on the 1:1, we removed
the stock tank, and had a fuel cell/fuel pump installed into the trunk)...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Not too much progress on the 1:25 project this week...got the second mini tub fitted, and removed the gas tank (along with the "box" Revell had it sitting on)...now I need to create a correctly contoured trunk floor...although the fuel cell, fuel pump/filter setup, and their mounting frame will cover much of it in the trunk, the underside has hydro-stamped detail that I'll need to try replicating...thankfully, there are plenty of pictures of trunk floorpan repair panels available online that should help with this, despite the "artistic license" Revell took with the model in this area...the pic below shows the now fitted mini tubs on the chassis pan I'll end up finishing and using for final assembly (once all the mods are completed) next to an unmodified one...
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On the other hand, the 1:1 project (my subject) is finally on deck...we picked it up from Ron Rhodes's shop (Rhodes Custom Auto) last weekend, and got her washed and into the shop this Saturday to begin assembly...the white board is at 20 items and growing, lol...the two pics below are at Rhodes's shop, and show the Carl's Aluminum Works wing (finally installed) that we won a couple years ago at a race in Kansas, the custom 'chute mount, and the positively enormous cowl hood the car's owner went with (now I have to figure out how to replicate those Quicklatches)...The front bumper/airdam is currently fiberglass, and will probably stay black this season, and yes, the rear bumper is also fiberglass...
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We stripped out most of the (now unneeded) wiring, along with all of the Autometer instrumentation...I'll begin the MSD Power Grid, Racepak logger & dash, and ARC switch panels installation, and wiring updates, next weekend...I got to sneak lots of detail pics that I'll need for fabbing stuff on the 1:25 project...the last thing we got done this weekend was the first test fit of the new bullet: it looks gigantic compared to the 421 and 423 smallblocks that lived there for the last five years...
 
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Next weekend we'll probably get the couple of minor clearance issues worked out (the oil drain back fittings from the Big Chief heads are super tight to the firewall), the Lemons headers fitted, and the car majorly rewired and plumbed...hopefully we can get the FTI 'Glide in, and get the driveshaft measurements made and ordered too...We need to RACE!!!
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  • 1 month later...


Evenin' everyone...The 1/25 Nova model project has been on a short hiatus for the past few weeks as we have been re-assembling, re-plumbing, and re-wiring the subject of my build...The fresh 565 BBC, custom Lemons Headers, FTI 'Glide, Pro-Torque converter, custom radiator & electric fan are all new mechanicals for the car, so it is very much like building a full scale model: fit - modify - refit -remodify - final fit...We are also installing an ARC 12-switch panel with satellite switch panels in the engine compartment (for valve adjustment & tuning), a RacePak datalogger system and LCD digital dash, and an MSD Grid controller...all the new electronics, modifications to the fuel and cooling system wiring, pretty much predicated removing all of the wiring I did three years ago, and starting fresh...really, the only system that will not require a complete rewiring is the original equipment lighting circuits (it is a street car after all, lol), which I'll have to integrate with the new switch panel and it's fuse/relay panel...

I haven't had much time on the bench, but I have made a little bit of haphazard progress here and there...I've been working on a template to bend/build a 1:25 scale, ten gallon aluminum fuel cell with sump that will mount in the trunk (along with the fuel pump and filter setup I'll need to fab), discovered that annealed brass tubing bends MUCH more satisfactorily than non-annealed tubing, and am still trying to
develop a bending method that will give me more satisfactory results...the major problem I'm having trouble over-coming is repeatability: I need to create several mirror-image parts for the rollcage and front clip, not to mention the front control arms...many of the aftermarket parts I've ordered for the build have been rolling in...I now have about 80% of the drivetrain collected, including the Fab9 rear kit with PE disc brakes and 3d printed calipers...those items in of themselves will wind up being little "models" on their own...here are some of the things that have come in, the parts they are replacing, and the planned modifications they'll get to more closely replicate the real thing (also pictured if I have them):

1) FAB9 Rear, sourced @ Futurattraction...I need to remove the "rectangular" bracing, and re-brace it with round tubular styrene to match the bracing on the new rear we put in...the rear PE rotors will need to be replaced with ones that more closely replicate the TBM Revolution brakes that we installed three years ago...I need to get the correct rear rim setup before I can begin on this...

Rear-brace-Cal-Tracs-Monoleafs-Sliders-1

2) Monoleafs/CalTracs, sourced @ 3D Model Specialties, these monoleaf sets will be cut apart and spliced together to make split monoleafs with CalTracs...then I can fab a set of rear sliders for them...

Revell-Rear-and-Suspension-Monoleafs-Cal

3) Front Tires, sourced @ Futurattraction...these are a nice looking copy of a Goodyear DS2 w/o sidewall detailing...
4) Rear Tires: sourced @ Fireball Modelworks, Mickey Thompson 315/60R15 Drag Radial, with amazing sidewall detailing...I'm building the model with these instead of the MT 10.5 Pro Bracket Radials we'll be starting this season with, as the Nova is set up to clear the 315s (if we need them), and I can't find a source for the 10.5s...
5) Weld V-Series Front & Rear Wheels w/beadlocks: sourced @ Futurattraction, these are a beautiful aluminum & PE rendition of the wheels, but through my own inattention, the rears are too wide for the Fireball Modelworks MT315s...I'm looking into custom-machined rim sleeves to fit the tires, and will still use the PE centers and beadlocks...they should look amazing once they're detailed and assembled...

DS2s-Stock-Revell-tires-MT315s-1.jpg

Top-Revell-Steelies-Tires-and-Dog-Dishes

6) Basic "Brodix" Big Block Chevy: sourced @ 3d Model Specialties, I still have a few more bits and pieces to collect (and fabricate) for it before I can begin it's prep, assembly, and detailing...
7) Short tail 'Glide: sourced @ 3d Model Specialties, I'm going to need to fab a flexplate and converter, (there doesn't seem to be anything out there remotely like the ProTorque bolt-together we'll be using this season) along with a trans overflow recovery tank (the black cylinder hanging in front of the trans pan in the photo) and transbrake solenoid...

Revell-BB-and-Trans-Brodix-BB-Waterpump-

Pro-Torque-Converter-Overflow-Reservoir-

 

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Hey Bob!

Pack all your stuff up in a box and bring it to our club meeting!    The Tri-State Scale Model Car Club meets the second Saturday of every month in Perth Amboy, NJ. at 1pm.  We have a great group of great builders who can help you sort out your issues.  We have a good time and we always have pizza and chicken!   Give us a shout!

Meeting directions and info can be found on our website:  

https://www.tssmcc.com/

And then there's that little show we do every April...

https://www.nnleast.com/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tom Gieger - I'd love to take you up on that, but probably won't be able to until October's meeting...I'll know better over the next few weeks...probably have to mooch a ride too, (as NJDMV is currently holding mine hostage)...hopefully someone willing to ride share lives close or passes close to me on their way there... _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, the 1:1 project has finally been fired up, and it's just a little rowdy, lol...I'd LOVE to post the video for y'all, but can't figure out how to...programming and testing next Sunday...best part is, that means my time will be freed up, and I can get back onto the 1:25 version in earnest...

1to1-engine-and-compartment-done.jpg   

A whole lotta stuff to fab underhood for this 1/25 build....

 

1to1-trunk-done.jpg

 

Already working on a template to make that fuel cell from an empty beverage can...darn near everything here in the trunk will need to be fabbed...batteries, battery holddowns, battery charger (hanging on the right rollcage down tube), shock crossmember, anti-roll bar, and the battery shut-off switch that's just out of the picture by the batteries...

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On 8/12/2019 at 8:43 PM, Codi said:

Your 1:1 is quite sanitary.  Look forward to your updates on the model of it.   cheers, tim

Thank you Tim! We were aiming for the "looks like somebody cared" appearance, but not excessively so, y'know? So far, it looks like I'll finally get some bench time tonight, as there are no commitments except to go home after work and relax ?

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  • 3 months later...

 

Hello everyone, it's been awhile since I've been here...our short shakedown and racing season is over, and Old Man Winter's icy grip is becoming firmer...Our home track (Atco Dragway) is still doing some pop-up test and tune sessions, and our secondary track (Cecil County Dragway) is done for 2019, so our season is done...Traction with a 10.5" tire is at a premium in good weather with this combination, and dicey at best in the 30-40 degree range...The car consistently set ET and MPH bests every single time we had it out, eventually surpassing our goals, and, we're sure there's at least another tenth or two to be found...

So, with the Nova hibernating in the shop (probably until April or so, unless we head south for some testing), that means my nights and weekends are pretty much freed up again, and I can get back to the build...I really haven't been able to make any mentionable progress on it since I last posted, but keep checkin' back: it's on like Donkey Kong now!

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The rollcage minimum spec is 1 5/8" diameter not 1 3/4" as you mentioned and it's the most common . I've used .080 styrene even though it's a little oversized for 1 5/8" it's easier to work with.

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8 hours ago, bykr said:

The rollcage minimum spec is 1 5/8" diameter not 1 3/4" as you mentioned and it's the most common . I've used .080 styrene even though it's a little oversized for 1 5/8" it's easier to work with.

Tim, you are correct that the minimum spec is 1 5/8", although early in the BHRA General Regulations (pg 21 in 2019 - easiest to find on line w/o a rulebook on hand) they state that "All materials must be 1 3/4” O.D. x .118” mild steel or .083” 4130 chromoly tubing, except A, which is 1 1/4” O.D. x .118” mild steel or .065” 4130 chromoly tubing." (specifically in illustration 4:10)...very early on, when the build only required a roll bar (in the intial build before the current upgrades), we stayed with the 1 3/4" spec....The decision was made to stay with the slightly larger material in CM as the build progressed, as the weight penalty was minimal, it was likely stronger, and it eliminated any possible issues in certification regarding interpretation of the specification. 

As the 1:25 project has progressed, I have considered relenting on the decision to use brass as I learn how to work with it, but I'm stubborn, and think I'll be happier with it in the end. Thanks for the feedback... 

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3 hours ago, QuikTimz said:

Tim, you are correct that the minimum spec is 1 5/8", although early in the BHRA General Regulations (pg 21 in 2019 - easiest to find on line w/o a rulebook on hand) they state that "All materials must be 1 3/4” O.D. x .118” mild steel or .083” 4130 chromoly tubing, except A, which is 1 1/4” O.D. x .118” mild steel or .065” 4130 chromoly tubing." (specifically in illustration 4:10)...very early on, when the build only required a roll bar (in the intial build before the current upgrades), we stayed with the 1 3/4" spec....The decision was made to stay with the slightly larger material in CM as the build progressed, as the weight penalty was minimal, it was likely stronger, and it eliminated any possible issues in certification regarding interpretation of the specification. 

As the 1:25 project has progressed, I have considered relenting on the decision to use brass as I learn how to work with it, but I'm stubborn, and think I'll be happier with it in the end. Thanks for the feedback... 

I admire your perseverance with the brass. 

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  • 1 year later...

Hello everyone...it's been awhile since I've posted any updates: basically, life got in the way...

I've also been suffering a bit of a block with regards to the build: the doors have been cut out, and I've cut sub-frame connectors into the floor pan, the Nova has been back-burnered in favor of a "simpler" build that I had been collecting parts for...

"SIMPLER" - 🤣🤣🤣...I just can't seem to bring myself to do a box build: one modification leads to another...gotta figure out where I can create a thread for the current WIP, a custom rollback...

Anyhow, thank you to anyone who has checked in, (or wondered what happened) the Nova will be back on deck soon!

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