Why would AMT do this?

[highway]

I just stumbled across something while reading through a thread in the "Truck Kit News & Reviews" section and it leaves me with two questions:

1. Why would AMT do this?

2. How many other tires have AMT made "fictional" with pad printing that no one has noticed?

Even though this relates to tires found in the new reissue of the AMT Peterbilt wrecker that comes with pad printed "Firestone" tires, my questions also applies to the plethora of car kits and parts pack tire sets that it seems AMT has been throwing pad printed tires into just about as much as they have been Coke decals. I'm still waiting to see the Coke Construction Bulldozer or a Coke A-10 Warthog or even a Coke Saturn V rocket with Coke Lunar Lander to be reissued!  As for question #1, this is what leads me to have that question in my mind, these are the "NEW" pad printed tires in the wrecker kit:

and these are the tires I dug out of my 1977 issue AMT Kenworth Alaska Hauler kit to compare to the supposedly "new" tires because after many years of building truck kits, the distinctive diamond shapes around the sidewall of the tire stood out to me. 

The reason I wonder why AMT would change these tires and make them a fictional Firestone tire is for the simple fact of the Goodyear Polyglas tires not only found in car kits but the Polyglas Parts Pack tire sets as well, why didn't AMT just pad print these tires with the Goodyear markings? It obviously isn't a licencing issue or AMT wouldn't be pad printing the Polyglas tires for the car kits along with whatever other Goodyear tires they may have included in kits, I just mention the Polyglas because that is mostly what I find in muscle car kits I have and the pad printed tire sets I have on the shelf.  Honestly in my opinion, I think these particular tires would have looked much better with the Goodyear and Custom Hi Miler called out in the pad printing and the tire size information left alone, because a white letter tire is something very rare on a big rig anyway, mostly just found on show trucks and even at that, the white (or colored) letters are painted on by the owner using paint pens. They do add a nice custom touch though, just as a white letter tire does to a car. 

 

Now on to question #2, just how many other tires have AMT done this to that no one has noticed? It might not be as noticeable on a car tire as it is on these truck tires that honestly I think Stevie Wonder could tell these tires are old Goodyears that AMT just put Firestone markings on, but it still raises the question if AMT has done this for car tires too. Car tires don't usually have something distinctive on the sidewall like the diamonds on these tires, but they do usually have a distinctive tread pattern and how many of us really pay attention to the tread pattern on a tire? Even though I've never noticed anyone else ever posting anything about any of the pad printed tires being pad printed for something they are not, has anyone ever noticed this with any of the other printed tires? Also, I'm not talking about kits with tire decals but just actual pad printed tires. The decals if they aren't the right tire or in this case the right manufacturer are more or less an option and can simply be left off, but the pad printed ones can't be changed quite as easily as a decal can.    

 

[ranma]

Maybe they did that for the same reason they dropped the ertl name off the kit's that were originally ertl, and switched them to AMT? Just because they could do it?

Edited July 8, 2019 by ranma

[ranma]

IMHO AMT/MPC semi truck kits are FAR below the ertl standard of detail! Really the Ertl tuck kits were far better detailed, and much easier to build! AMT didn't number their parts well nor was there instructions that great. Ertl parts fit was also better than AMT!  Look at the AMT Ford Louisville kit's no hood hinges, Freightliners two part cab. Now compare those to any of the IH truck kit's that ertl produced! Also the AMT interior had very faint detail on the door panel's

[iamsuperdan]

I'd say its due to licensing fees. If the licensing to use Firestone logos is significantly less than Goodyear, then it should be of no surprise that the tire brand changes.

Model companies probably aren't rolling in dough, so if they can save a few bucks of licening, then they do.

 

 

[Mike999]

Dragon pulled an even sneakier trick in some of its 1/35 scale German military kits.  The rubber tires were lettered "CONTINENTAU."  A quick flick of the hobby knife, and they magically became the correct "Continental" tires.

[CapSat 6]

It seems to me that they have done this with their new Goodyear Polyglas GT's, too- I have seen them printed as Goodyear Radial GT's (a late '70's tire which does NOT have the same tread pattern as the Polyglas GT), and as Firestone Wide Ovals (which would probably be closer to the look of a Polyglas GT carcass, but probably not the same tread).

Then again, I'm a bit of a scale tire nut. Maybe they think that most modelers won't notice, they'll just really like the pad printing?

 

[highway]

28 minutes ago, iamsuperdan said:

I'd say its due to licensing fees. If the licensing to use Firestone logos is significantly less than Goodyear, then it should be of no surprise that the tire brand changes.

Model companies probably aren't rolling in dough, so if they can save a few bucks of licening, then they do.

 

 

I would say that would be a valid point IF AMT didn't also have licensing to use the Goodyear name as they have done with the Polyglas tires in kits and the parts pack sets, not to mention using the Polyglas name on the 1962 Pontiac Catalina "Polyglas" gasser kit. I'm by no means an insider or expert on how the licensing works unlike the many that claim they are and the fewer that actually are, but I would guess paying for the licensing means you have the right to use that name. If it would be a "by use" deal, I would hate to know how much AMT had to pay for licensing on the Catalina kit, because only going off of Google images of the box art since I do not have that kit because the car holds little interest for me, AMT uses the Polyglas name twice on the box art and at least once on the side calling out the Polyglas red lines included in the kit and that's not including all the other times the Polyglas and/or Goodyear names are used not only on the box art but on the tires included as well. That alone leads me to believe that the licensing to use the names would most likely be an all encompassing type instead of a per kit or per use type just as it probably is with the Coke decals that AMT is making sure they get plenty of mileage out of.   

[iamsuperdan]

19 minutes ago, Mike999 said:

Dragon pulled an even sneakier trick in some of its 1/35 scale German military kits.  The rubber tires were lettered "CONTINENTAU."  A quick flick of the hobby knife, and they magically became the correct "Continental" tires.

Have a look at the tires on the Meng Jeep Wrangler! Trying to remember how they are labelled, but it's pretty ridiculous.

 

 

[highway]

20 minutes ago, Mike999 said:

Dragon pulled an even sneakier trick in some of its 1/35 scale German military kits.  The rubber tires were lettered "CONTINENTAU."  A quick flick of the hobby knife, and they magically became the correct "Continental" tires.

Yes, but that is more to get around a licensing fee for a product they didn't have the rights to use, because Meng used the BFGaadrich Mvd Tarroin T/A lettering on at least the box art for their Jeep Rubicon kit. I don't know if the tires inside are the same way or not since that is one kit that has not found its way to my shelves as of yet. 

MPC also did that on many of their late 70s Pontiac Trans Am kits, which still is a matter of confusion for me because I had always heard that Monogram was the only one to hold the rights to use the Trans Am name from the racing sanctioning body the same as Pontiac had to pay for the rights to use the Trans Am name, but MPC still had some of their kits marked on the box as a Firebird Trans Am. They did the sneaky trick on the decals to break up the Trans Am decals for the body in about 3 separate pieces so the decal didn't actually say "TRANS AM".  

[Force]

2 hours ago, iamsuperdan said:

I'd say its due to licensing fees. If the licensing to use Firestone logos is significantly less than Goodyear, then it should be of no surprise that the tire brand changes.

Model companies probably aren't rolling in dough, so if they can save a few bucks of licening, then they do.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, highway said:

I would say that would be a valid point IF AMT didn't also have licensing to use the Goodyear name as they have done with the Polyglas tires in kits and the parts pack sets, not to mention using the Polyglas name on the 1962 Pontiac Catalina "Polyglas" gasser kit. I'm by no means an insider or expert on how the licensing works unlike the many that claim they are and the fewer that actually are, but I would guess paying for the licensing means you have the right to use that name. If it would be a "by use" deal, I would hate to know how much AMT had to pay for licensing on the Catalina kit, because only going off of Google images of the box art since I do not have that kit because the car holds little interest for me, AMT uses the Polyglas name twice on the box art and at least once on the side calling out the Polyglas red lines included in the kit and that's not including all the other times the Polyglas and/or Goodyear names are used not only on the box art but on the tires included as well. That alone leads me to believe that the licensing to use the names would most likely be an all encompassing type instead of a per kit or per use type just as it probably is with the Coke decals that AMT is making sure they get plenty of mileage out of.   

Licensing was the main reason Revell stopped with tire markings altogether in their kits, Good Year wanted too much for them to use the name on the tires
Caterpillar is the same and Round 2 omitted the name from the bulldozer kit even though it really is a Cat....sad but true...maybe they could mold it in red and call it Coca Cola Bulldozer instead.

[Bucky]

It all seems backwards to me,  anyhow. Good Year and Firestone, and Michelin, and Coca Cola should be paying the model companies for advertising their products in the form of model kits. LOL

[Mike999]

1 hour ago, Bucky said:

It all seems backwards to me,  anyhow. Good Year and Firestone, and Michelin, and Coca Cola should be paying the model companies for advertising their products in the form of model kits. LOL

IIRC, when the licensing goat-rope started back around the 1980s, the excuse went something like this: a kid might decide to eat a scale model tire marked "Goodyear" and we, the Goodyear company, might be held liable in court.  Strictly my cranky opinion, but I think it was always nothing but sheer greed, once the licensing lawyers showed up.

Here's an old thread (2004) from an R/C aircraft group. A small company had to stop making models of the Lockheed P-38 and Electra. That was thanks to Lockheed-Martin's licensing watchdogs, EMI.  I don't know if the situation has gotten any better, but I doubt it.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?313255-Lockheed-Martin-License-Requirement-for-Models

 

[Bucky]

Prolly 100% correct, there, Mike!!

['70 Grande]

With my limited experience in dealing with Product Name Licensing for over 15-20 years, I'm pretty certain most, (not necessarily-all), Product Name Licensing Contracts are based on a usage fee for each individual product, (AMT Peterbilt Wrecker kit), being produced/manufactured that would use that product name, (Firestone or Goodyear), within the product/kit's contents.  Each kit pays its own licensing fee based on that particular kit's production-run, (how many kits are being manufactured), and wholesale distribution, (just sold in the USA, or also sold in some international markets).  

Now, I suspect that Coca-Cola gave AMT/Round-2 a "deal" on the licensing fees if they used that Coca-Cola logo artwork on more kits.  "Go ahead, AMT/Round-2, produce one kit in 2019 with our Coca-Cola logo artwork on the decal sheet and the licensing fee will be $1.00/per kit produced, (completely made-up $ amount here for example-purposes only). OR, go ahead and put our Coca-Cola logo artwork on 5 different kits that you will produce in 2019, and that $1.00/per kit cost will go down to $0.85/per kit... OR  go ahead and put our Coca-Cola logo artwork on 10 different kits that you will produce in 2019, and that $1.00/per kit cost will go down to $0.65/per kit."

Same logic would apply to tire brand names as well.

[SfanGoch]

33 minutes ago, '70 Grande said:

OR, go ahead and put our Coca-Cola logo artwork on 5 different kits that you will produce in 2019, and that $1.00/per kit cost will go down to $0.85/per kit... OR  go ahead and put our Coca-Cola logo artwork on 10 different kits that you will produce in 2019, and that $1.00/per kit cost will go down to $0.65/per kit."

At that rate, with R2 is slapping Coke logos on anything possible, Coca cola will owe R2 advertising fees. How about a Polar Lights reissue of the 1/72 Forbidden Planet C0-57D Interplanetary Cruiser with all-new Coke graphics to plaster all over the saucer? Instead of synthesizing Kansas City bourbon, the miniature Robbie the Robot in the kit could be posed next to a pallet of The Real Thing.

[Tom Geiger]

Hey if you have a Coke license, use it!  It’s a huge collecting area and Coke collectors will buy anything with the trade mark and most won’t even break the shrink wrap. Who can object to allowing Coke collectors keep Round 2 in the black?

[highway]

I believe it may not be a licensing issue at all with these tires but more of just an error in the carcass AMT decided to use for the pad printed tires or a case of a bean counter saying "Oh, nobody will notice" or just not caring about them being incorrect but hey, after an 18 year career driving the real things down the road it was something my trucking trained eyes noticed. The reason I don't feel it isn't a licensing issue though is tonight I went to help a friend that does live model auctions on his Facebook group do one of his weekly auctions, and he just so happened to have an original issue kit of the Peterbilt wrecker among the garage full of kits he has, and I looked at the tires in that original issue. Low and behold but it just so happened to be the same Firestone tire staring back at me just as the pad printing on the incorrect carcasses in the reissue have! So while they may still be incorrect to someone like me that has spent most of their life around the 1:1, the pad printing anyway is correct to what the original issue (and I'm only guessing the other reissues of this kit since this wrecker does not interest me in the least because I don't care for the boom included in it, would love if it had the Holmes 750 unit as the 1/43rd scale AMT Peterbilt ) had in it tire wise and at least in my mind fully explains why, regardless of not being the correct carcass, this kit's tires have the Firestone pad printing on them. 

[sfhess]

And yet the sun still came up this morning.......

[espo]

Many valid questions and also a few answers as well. While the blame seems to fall on "AMT" for these problems, maybe these questions should be put too Round 2 since they are doing the reissue of these models. I'm happy that they are doing the reissue's as many of these kits are ones that I enjoy and from my prospective the improvements made by Round 2 have been done in a positive manor. I don't care about the whole Coke thing, but I'm only one person. I would think that Round 2 would rather hear from any builders about what it is that upsets them about their product. Give them a chance to explain the whys and wherefores as to what they have done. Then you will have a better understanding of why something was done. 

[Ben]

Those tires themselves are newly tooled. They’re not just old tires that have been paid printed.

[Jim N]

It was mentioned above, but bears repeating.  Goodyear has become very sticky to deal with regarding licensing fees for more than a decade.  I build a lot of NASCAR kits and Revell has not had Goodyear markings in their kits since about 2006.  The only way to do these kits properly is through the aftermarket, and I am sure these are unlicensed decal sheets.

[Force]

2 hours ago, espo said:

Many valid questions and also a few answers as well. While the blame seems to fall on "AMT" for these problems, maybe these questions should be put too Round 2 since they are doing the reissue of these models. I'm happy that they are doing the reissue's as many of these kits are ones that I enjoy and from my prospective the improvements made by Round 2 have been done in a positive manor. I don't care about the whole Coke thing, but I'm only one person. I would think that Round 2 would rather hear from any builders about what it is that upsets them about their product. Give them a chance to explain the whys and wherefores as to what they have done. Then you will have a better understanding of why something was done. 

Well Round 2 and AMT is the same as Round 2 is the owner of the AMT MPC, Polar Lights brands since 2011 and they produce the kits and brands them accordingly.

2 hours ago, Ben said:

Those tires themselves are newly tooled. They’re not just old tires that have been paid printed.

Even if the tires in question is new tool they sure look like the old Good Year Hi-Miler, they still have the Good Year diamonds on the sides and the same tread pattern as the old Good Year tires.

I don't have any of the Peterbilt 359 1100 cab Wrecker issues but I have a couple of the 1100 cab tractors and I have the original T522 Unilite small window cab wrecker and all have the Good Year tires.
AMT used Good Year in most of their truck kits but have also had Uniroyal in some and Bandag for the Tyrone Malone kits...I don't remember any Firestone but that could also have been used.
I looked in some of my newly aquired truck kits, amongst them the recent re-issues of the Mack R685ST and Kenworth W925 and they still have Good Year tires, the recent Freightliner and Autocar has Uniroyals...so why they decided to do the Firestone on the wrecker I do not know.
But I think the licensing thing has blown out of proportion, haven't they heard of free advertising and product placement...they do it all the time in movies and TV productions, they make movies and TV shows to make money don't they...so what's different with model kits.

I don't mind the Coca Cola thing at all allthough it's becoming a bit boring when they use it all the time and on everything, so to me it doesn't matter if they include the decals or not,  if I want the kit I buy it regardless and you don't have to use the decals if you don't want to...I wouldn't be surprised if Coca Cola pay Round 2 to use their logos instead of the other way around as their advertising budget is one of the highest percentage of revenue compared to all companies in the world.

[highway]

47 minutes ago, Jim N said:

It was mentioned above, but bears repeating.  Goodyear has become very sticky to deal with regarding licensing fees for more than a decade.  I build a lot of NASCAR kits and Revell has not had Goodyear markings in their kits since about 2006.  The only way to do these kits properly is through the aftermarket, and I am sure these are unlicensed decal sheets.

Yes, but as I also said before and will say AGAIN, that would be valid IF AMT/Round 2 DIDN'T HAVE LICENSING TO USE THE GOODYEAR NAME! All the nice pad printed Goodyear tires used in kits and the parts pack tire sets are just proof that Goodyear is happy with whatever they are getting paid for licensing from Round 2 and Round 2 is happy paying whatever Goodyear wants for the licensing fees. 

 

[highway]

20 minutes ago, Force said:

I don't have any of the Peterbilt 359 1100 cab Wrecker issues but I have a couple of the 1100 cab tractors and I have the original T522 Unilite small window cab wrecker and all have the Good Year tires.
AMT used Good Year in most of their truck kits but have also had Uniroyal in some and Bandag for the Tyrone Malone kits...I don't remember any Firestone but that could also have been used.
I looked in some of my newly aquired truck kits, amongst them the recent re-issues of the Mack R685ST and Kenworth W925 and they still have Good Year tires, the recent Freightliner and Autocar has Uniroyals...so why they decided to do the Firestone on the wrecker I do not know.

I'm going to the same friend's place again tonight for day 2 of his weekly auctions, I'll grab a pic of those Firestones in the original issue. I'll also double check the box, but I think it even called out the Firestone tires on the box side art as many of those old issue (and the classic box art of new reissues) did on the classic issues.

 

[Force]

Well my original T522 kit has Good Years and the box side reads "10 Brand Name Vinyl Tires", they don't specify wich brand tho'.
I also have the T500-500 and it has Good Years and a Good Year sticker, same for my T500 with the sleeper, but no Good Year sticker there