Buddy Baker '73 Charger

[SCRWDRVR]

I'm getting ready to start on this kit, any suggestions on what color to use? I'd prefer it be spray paint....

 

 

[RichCostello]

Red.

[Force]

As far as I know the K & K Insurance cars were 1964-67 Ford Popy Red, the color is also called Calypso Coral 1969-70 and Competition Orange for Mercury 1969-71 and it's the same, Ford Code M1730, Chrysler Code DT333, PPG 60449 due to paintref.com.
They look red in some lights and orange in some and a friend of mine is built a loose copy of the 1971 car for the street and did some research.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Force

[SCRWDRVR]

1 hour ago, Force said:

As far as I know the K & K Insurance cars were 1964-67 Ford Popy Red, the color is also called Calypso Coral 1969-70 and Competition Orange for Mercury 1969-71 and it's the same, Ford Code M1730, Chrysler Code DT333, PPG 60449 due to paintref.com.
They look red in some lights and orange in some and a friend of mine is built a loose copy of the 1971 car for the street and did some research.

Perfect, thanks for the info....

[MarkJ]

You could probably get by with Tamiya bright red. Just use white primer. Maybe try some Italian red on a spoon first too and compare.

[SCRWDRVR]

1 hour ago, MarkJ said:

You could probably get by with Tamiya bright red. Just use white primer. Maybe try some Italian red on a spoon first too and compare.

Cool I will check those out, thanks 

[Muncie]

4 hours ago, Force said:

As far as I know the K & K Insurance cars were 1964-67 Ford Popy Red, the color is also called Calypso Coral 1969-70 and Competition Orange for Mercury 1969-71 and it's the same, Ford Code M1730, Chrysler Code DT333, PPG 60449 due to paintref.com.
They look red in some lights and orange in some and a friend of mine is built a loose copy of the 1971 car for the street and did some research.

absolutely - you can't really go by pictures with poppy red.  With the film and printing methods available in the '60's and '70's, poppy red usually prints red in pictures, but it is definitely orange.  A very red orange, but it is more orange than red. 

[dragmodels44]

I’m looking forward to your build. Here’s a pic of mine, which all I’ve done at this point is the body. It was molded in red ( not sure if they all are ) so I took the easy way and prepped the body then cleared it. Notice the color change when its in the light vs shade.  The other is my Petty Charger. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by dragmodels44

[SCRWDRVR]

10 hours ago, dragmodels44 said:

I’m looking forward to your build. Here’s a pic of mine, which all I’ve done at this point is the body. It was molded in red ( not sure if they all are ) so I took the easy way and prepped the body then cleared it. Notice the color change when its in the light vs shade.  The other is my Petty Charger. 

Nice!!! Mine is molded in red but I just want to paint it for some reason. The Petty Charger looks good too, I have the 1/16th Petty Grand Prix I just haven't been able to bring myself to finish....

[SCRWDRVR]

11 hours ago, dragmodels44 said:

  The other is my Petty Charger. 

 

Here is my Petty Grand Prix

 

[dragmodels44]

That’s cool, I like it!

[james460]

Back in the day I heard MRN radio describe the color as "tomato red" if that helps.

[SCRWDRVR]

1 hour ago, james460 said:

Back in the day I heard MRN radio describe the color as "tomato red" if that helps.

That would make sense from what I understanding, kind of puts it in perspective..... thanks

[CapSat 6]

The K&K Team definitely used Ford Poppy Red for their cars. It was a dark orange, or slightly dirty orangy-red. It was not bright red or orange. Old photos are all over the place the way they register the color of these cars, so they won't help much. The body as molded, and the build on the box is a straight red, neither really look like the K&K hue. 

If I were building this, I would either:

- go to www.paintscratch.com, order a can of paint of Ford Poppy Red, if you search by car, it should come up as a Mustang color from the mid-60's. They sell cans for about $24.99 per, but it's a big can (consider this as a 1/16 car is bigger, and, you will have to paint it inside and out), and their stuff matches extremely well.  

- or get the right stuff from Model Car World (I think they sell it in spray cans). This might end up being more expensive than paintscratch, as you'll need more than one can to finish this kit.

-if you want to try something cheaper, try to find Chevy Engine red. This seems to be the closest to Ford Poppy Red you can get without getting Ford Poppy Red. Avoid the high temp stuff, it will probably be too thick. You can probably get this at Advance Auto/ Pep Boys/ any local parts store.

-You might actually luck out and find Ford Poppy Red "touch up" at a parts store, but remember that those formulas (Duplicolor, etc.) are often mixed to match multiple hues (they "shoot the middle" between several different colors), so "touch up" may or may not really match Ford Poppy Red too well.  

I think your best choice is www.paintscratch.com, unless you are adventurous and want to try the Chevy Engine Red.

At worst, go to an auto parts store, get the Chevy Engine Red, and try it out on a test body first. For $7 a can, it might be worth it to try it out. Use white auto primer under it (if you use gray, it might make it too "dirty"), and sand the primer out with very fine paper first before you shoot the paint. You'll probably ruin the body if you try to shoot any of that stuff on it without primer.     

I know a little about paint hues- I used to mix dye formulas for a textile mill. I can't unsee what I have seen now!  

Edited July 17, 2019 by CapSat 6
detail

[SCRWDRVR]

1 hour ago, CapSat 6 said:

The K&K Team definitely used Ford Poppy Red for their cars. It was a dark orange, or slightly dirty orangy-red. It was not bright red or orange. Old photos are all over the place the way they register the color of these cars, so they won't help much. The body as molded, and the build on the box is a straight red, neither really look like the K&K hue. 

If I were building this, I would either:

- go to www.paintscratch.com, order a can of paint of Ford Poppy Red, if you search by car, it should come up as a Mustang color from the mid-60's. They sell cans for about $24.99 per, but it's a big can (consider this as a 1/16 car is bigger, and, you will have to paint it inside and out), and their stuff matches extremely well.  

- or get the right stuff from Model Car World (I think they sell it in spray cans). This might end up being more expensive than paintscratch, as you'll need more than one can to finish this kit.

-if you want to try something cheaper, try to find Chevy Engine red. This seems to be the closest to Ford Poppy Red you can get without getting Ford Poppy Red. Avoid the high temp stuff, it will probably be too thick. You can probably get this at Advance Auto/ Pep Boys/ any local parts store.

-You might actually luck out and find Ford Poppy Red "touch up" at a parts store, but remember that those formulas (Duplicolor, etc.) are often mixed to match multiple hues (they "shoot the middle" between several different colors), so "touch up" may or may not really match Ford Poppy Red too well.  

I think your best choice is www.paintscratch.com, unless you are adventurous and want to try the Chevy Engine Red.

At worst, go to an auto parts store, get the Chevy Engine Red, and try it out on a test body first. For $7 a can, it might be worth it to try it out. Use white auto primer under it (if you use gray, it might make it too "dirty"), and sand the primer out with very fine paper first before you shoot the paint. You'll probably ruin the body if you try to shoot any of that stuff on it without primer.     

I know a little about paint hues- I used to mix dye formulas for a textile mill. I can't unsee what I have seen now!  

I will try the Chevy Engine Red first (more in my price range) I can always stripe the body if I don't like the out come. Thanks for the info, very helpful...

[horsepower]

On 7/15/2019 at 7:57 AM, Muncie said:

absolutely - you can't really go by pictures with poppy red.  With the film and printing methods available in the '60's and '70's, poppy red usually prints red in pictures, but it is definitely orange.  A very red orange, but it is more orange than red. 

Chevrolet Hugger Orange and Ford Poppy Red both use the same mix formulas and you can get Hugger Orange in Testors factory match lacquer spray paint.

[SCRWDRVR]

2 hours ago, horsepower said:

Chevrolet Hugger Orange and Ford Poppy Red both use the same mix formulas and you can get Hugger Orange in Testors factory match lacquer spray paint.

Thanks I will look for the Hugger Orange...

[Force]

4 hours ago, horsepower said:

Chevrolet Hugger Orange and Ford Poppy Red both use the same mix formulas and you can get Hugger Orange in Testors factory match lacquer spray paint.

Are you sure...because according to my references they do not.

Chevy Hugger Orange 1969-71:                                                                    PPG/Ditzler 2084,    Sherwin Williams 2897, DuPont 5021
Ford Poppy Red/Calypso Coral/Competition Orange 1964-72 at least: PPG/Ditzler 60449, Sherwin Williams 2366, DuPont 4602

If both these colors use the same formula they would have the same paint codes with PPG/Ditzler, Sherwin Williams, DuPont and others as the aftermarket don't use different codes for the same formula, each manufacturer has their own codes but they would be the same for Hugger Orange and Poppy Red if the mix formula were the same...right?.
As far as I have seen the Hugger Orange color is more bright orange than Poppy Red/Calypso Coral.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Force

[CapSat 6]

1 hour ago, Force said:

Are you sure...because according to my references they do not.

Chevy Hugger Orange 1969-71:                                                                    PPG/Ditzler 2084,    Sherwin Williams 2897, DuPont 5021
Ford Poppy Red/Calypso Coral/Competition Orange 1964-72 at least: PPG/Ditzler 60449, Sherwin Williams 2366, DuPont 4602

If both these colors use the same formula they would have the same paint codes with PPG/Ditzler, Sherwin Williams, DuPont and others as the aftermarket don't use different codes for the same formula, each manufacturer has their own codes but they would be the same for Hugger Orange and Poppy Red if the mix formula were the same...right?.
As far as I have seen the Hugger Orange color is more bright orange than Poppy Red/Calypso Coral.

Agree- they show two distinctly different codes, and they look different, too. That tells me that if a car were being restored, if the painter used one for the other, the owner would be a little (a LOT) perturbed. 

To my formerly-professionally trained eye, Hugger Orange has more yellow in it - it’s not a match to me. Also- tough to describe, but Hugger Orange, while a dark orange, is sharper than Poppy Red, which seems to have a hit of blue in it, the blue might make it look a little “softer” or “dirtier”.

Eventually, I will be building a 1/16 Daytona in K & K form, and when I do, I’ll be using Poppy Red. I have tried Chevy Engine Red before (on a 1/16 General Lee that I was going to build as a ‘68 K & K Car), and it looks a lot like Poppy Red in hue, but the shade is a bit darker because I used gray primer under it.

To me, Chevy Engine Red is an acceptable match. If I were budget conscious, I would go with Chevy Engine Red from a parts store, using white auto primer under it. You would probably end up spending the same on one big can of primer, one big can of paint, and one big can of clear that you would for 2 cans of each (remember - 1/16, to be painted inside and out: body, chassis, Cage) in hobby enamel. 

Lastly, I personally do not like Testors cans- I will only use them as a last resort. Almost anything else, whether it be auto touch up paints or Tamiya, etc. are easier to use and give better results in my book.

 

Edited July 17, 2019 by CapSat 6

[SCRWDRVR]

14 hours ago, CapSat 6 said:

Agree- they show two distinctly different codes, and they look different, too. That tells me that if a car were being restored, if the painter used one for the other, the owner would be a little (a LOT) perturbed. 

To my formerly-professionally trained eye, Hugger Orange has more yellow in it - it’s not a match to me. Also- tough to describe, but Hugger Orange, while a dark orange, is sharper than Poppy Red, which seems to have a hit of blue in it, the blue might make it look a little “softer” or “dirtier”.

Eventually, I will be building a 1/16 Daytona in K & K form, and when I do, I’ll be using Poppy Red. I have tried Chevy Engine Red before (on a 1/16 General Lee that I was going to build as a ‘68 K & K Car), and it looks a lot like Poppy Red in hue, but the shade is a bit darker because I used gray primer under it.

To me, Chevy Engine Red is an acceptable match. If I were budget conscious, I would go with Chevy Engine Red from a parts store, using white auto primer under it. You would probably end up spending the same on one big can of primer, one big can of paint, and one big can of clear that you would for 2 cans of each (remember - 1/16, to be painted inside and out: body, chassis, Cage) in hobby enamel. 

Lastly, I personally do not like Testors cans- I will only use them as a last resort. Almost anything else, whether it be auto touch up paints or Tamiya, etc. are easier to use and give better results in my book.

 

I would think if it was the same formula it would have the same number but anything is possible, They build the same cars and just put different emblems on them LOL....

[CapSat 6]

1 hour ago, SCRWDRVR said:

I would think if it was the same formula it would have the same number but anything is possible, They build the same cars and just put different emblems on them LOL....

In the end, it's your car, so you can paint it however you prefer of course. To some extent, we all have an ideal in our minds, and might like one color over another- one might look more "correct" in our minds.

You would think that paints would be standardized, but no- paint formulas became part of the auto design process, so each manufacturer would come up with their own colors. Manufacturers did borrow colors from each other very occasionally, but, for instance, compare Ford Grabber Blue, AMC Big Bad Blue, Chrysler Basin Street Blue, and Petty Blue. Some might say (and have said) that they are the same, and others might not even care, but in reality, these colors are definitely not the same, they all differ from each other. If you try to touch up a Basin Street Blue car with Grabber Blue, you will quickly run into trouble, as the Grabber Blue is a little darker and less green than Basin Street Blue.

The fact is that Hugger Orange and Poppy Red do have different codes when you look them up. That would tell me that they are different formulas. To my eyes, they definitely look different. Poppy Red almost seems to have a very slightly pink-ish, salmon-y color because of the blue in it. 

It's like when you see those paint sample cards at Home Depot or Sherwin Williams. Start putting them next to each other under a bright light, and then that's when you'll see that those colors are slightly different, even if you line up 5 or 6 different oranges.  

There are even differences in the white paints that manufacturers use, but for some odd reason, I'm not as fussy about white.     

In the end, these are models, so it would be up to you as to how far you want to go to match a particular paint, but if you want to make a substitution, you should probably know going in that in paints, there is very rarely "the same", but you might still be able to get close.

What drove me nuts for years (in the 80's) was that you couldn't get close to Petty Blue at all. It was either Testors Sky Blue or Testors French Blue in hobby enamels, neither of which were even in the ballpark for Petty Blue. Auto Touch up in anything near that color was nonexistent, and getting paint mixed seemed to be out of the question then. I had an auto paint jobber that I could literally walk to from my house back then, and, asking him if he could mix small batches for painting models, he would look at me like I had antlers!  

Then, Tru Match came out and aside from that paint being really hot, all of as sudden, you could build Petty cars!   

Edited July 18, 2019 by CapSat 6

[Muncie]

Poppy red -   https://www.sw-rodandrestocustomcolor.com/colors/PCCL32

Hugger Orange -  https://www.sw-rodandrestocustomcolor.com/colors/PCCL50

I painted a K&K Charger Tamiya red based on what I saw in the pictures - it never looked right...  Then I learned the K&K cars are poppy red. 

 

[SCRWDRVR]

1 hour ago, CapSat 6 said:

The fact is that Hugger Orange and Poppy Red do have different codes when you look them up. That would tell me that they are different formulas. To my eyes, they definitely look different. Poppy Red almost seems to have a very slightly pink-ish, salmon-y color because of the blue in it. 

There are even differences in the white paints that manufacturers use, but for some odd reason, I'm not as fussy about white.     

 

1 hour ago, CapSat 6 said:

What drove me nuts for years (in the 80's) was that you couldn't get close to Petty Blue at all. It was either Testors Sky Blue or Testors French Blue in hobby enamels, neither of which were even in the ballpark for Petty Blue. Auto Touch up in anything near that color was nonexistent, and getting paint mixed seemed to be out of the question then. I had an auto paint jobber that I could literally walk to from my house back then, and, asking him if he could mix small batches for painting models, he would look at me like I had antlers!  

Then, Tru Match came out and aside from that paint being really hot, all of as sudden, you could build Petty cars!   

There is definitely a difference looking at the two you can see it, I think I'm going to get some of the Chevy engine red when I get a chance. I was a painter for quite a while and believe me I understand about the different shades and ultimately like you said it's up to me. I want it close but I don't need it exact which is why I will use the Chevy engine red.

I get it on the Petty colors, that Petty Grand Prix I started was done with what Testors called Petty blue t the time (early 90's) and isn't to bad but the Petty Red that I bought the same time wasn't even close it was more like a florescent orange and probably the reason I lost interest in the kit.... 

 

1 hour ago, Muncie said:

Poppy red -   https://www.sw-rodandrestocustomcolor.com/colors/PCCL32

Hugger Orange -  https://www.sw-rodandrestocustomcolor.com/colors/PCCL50

I painted a K&K Charger Tamiya red based on what I saw in the pictures - it never looked right...  Then I learned the K&K cars are poppy red. 

 

You can definitely see a difference there, it is amazing how different colors are from photos and in real life

[CapSat 6]

3 hours ago, SCRWDRVR said:

I get it on the Petty colors, that Petty Grand Prix I started was done with what Testors called Petty blue t the time (early 90's) and isn't to bad but the Petty Red that I bought the same time wasn't even close it was more like a florescent orange and probably the reason I lost interest in the kit.... 

Here we go...

There's a theory about Petty Blue- that there is an "early" version (approx. 1960-1969) and a later version which was used after that. I'm not sure of the exact changeover, but I think it's true. I think that 90's Testor's Petty Blue might have been a decent match for "early" Petty Blue, which was a bit lighter, more gray and less green/ less brilliant than the later shade. The '84 Grand Prix would definitely have used the later shade.

I think Tamiya TS-23 in spray is a decent match for late Petty Blue. Maybe you can get a can of that and respray that Grand Prix of yours.

Now for Petty Red- that's the tough one. The story with that paint is that it changed often, was unstable (it faded quickly, so they would have to reapply constantly) AND it never photographed the same way twice.   

I can't make a good recommendation for the Petty Red, except for: experiment. Find something that seems to fit your memory, or your preference. Even if you match it with a sample, you might still not be happy with it.

Personally, I'm not happy with the "nuclear florescent orange" option that some people use. In my mind, I see that color as a bright red, based on all of the pictures I've seen of those cars over the years. People that have seen them at races seem to vividly recall that they were "nuclear fluorescent orange", so that's what they would tend towards. I won't be trying a Petty Red-and-Blue for awhile, but eventually, I plan on building a circa-1975 1/16 Petty Car. I did a body up for a '73 Petty Car many years ago, and used Tru Match for both the blue and the red. The blue was perfect, but the fluorescent red bothered me. I ended up coating the red with a mix of brushed-on Testor's reds. I was getting closer to what I wanted, I can't remember the mix I used, but eventually I got discouraged with it and sold it off.  

[bbowser]

As others have said, what looks "right" to you.  I saw the car in person at Dover in '83 (my first Cup race) and was blown away by the brightness (read fluorescent) of the red..  TV and magazine photos did not do it justice.