77- 78 Thunderbird in 1/25th scale. first copy

[stavanzer]

Great Zeus, people!

Buy or Don't Buy!

I don't care why you will or why you won't.

Enough already. The poor Horse is dead from Flogging already...........

[Paul Hettick]

Anyone care to take a shot at how much it costs me per unit to bring this kit to market?

Plus near 200 hrs development time.

I am unable to make the molds and do the casting.

I did this T Bird because of a strong affection for the car.

The vendor is doing me a favor by casting these and I do not wish to overwhelm him.

Thanks to you who appreciate this.

Again, anyone care to take a stab at my cost per unit?

[webestang]

Just wanted to chime in on how wonder the casting looks. Fantastic work! 

 

 

[American 185 Heavy]

1 hour ago, Paul Hettick said:

Anyone care to take a shot at how much it costs me per unit to bring this kit to market?

Plus near 200 hrs development time.

I am unable to make the molds and do the casting.

I did this T Bird because of a strong affection for the car.

The vendor is doing me a favor by casting these and I do not wish to overwhelm him.

Thanks to you who appreciate this.

Again, anyone care to take a stab at my cost per unit?

Your work is outstanding and devotion to it, deserves a nod as well. Many of us love that T-Bird, you are not alone. I did read Don Holthaus' name being mentioned in another post on here, so go with the king. His kits were priced for sale, and that is how he won as many customers as he did. Your time and effort are admirable as well, but Modelhaus ruled the industry sadly. Others have tried to copy them, and some even have attempted to pirate their work. I did business with them for decades because they were simply that good. Many others have come and gone while they were in business and after as well. They knew their customers and priced things fairly as well. And they never put forth how much time, effort, or outsourcing they did or didn't do. I am not a giant fan of resin kits, I only have two. One came from Modelhaus and it was worth the wait and his price was more than fair. The Colony Park was a gem and is a jewel to see. My only other is that of a 78 LTD built as a carbon copy of my own. Price on that was more than fair too, and quality great as well. I have seen lots of other attempts even on this site of people coming up with ideas but won't show a picture of a built one, or the final copy. No thank you. As stated earlier and previously, your work is fantastic, I admire you for it, but until you can establish a buy it now price, I will not be a customer. With me personally, it is simply a question of ethics, and my pride. Goes against my grain of thinking. I wish you much success with your venture and hope you sell all you produce !!!

[StevenGuthmiller]

4 hours ago, Paul Hettick said:

Anyone care to take a shot at how much it costs me per unit to bring this kit to market?

Plus near 200 hrs development time.

I am unable to make the molds and do the casting.

I did this T Bird because of a strong affection for the car.

The vendor is doing me a favor by casting these and I do not wish to overwhelm him.

Thanks to you who appreciate this.

Again, anyone care to take a stab at my cost per unit?

I wouldn't want to even venture to guess Paul, but I'll bet it's a lot more than most people here think.

People seem to want to continue to bring up Modelhaus as a fair comparison to what you do, but I don't believe there is a comparison to be made.

My understanding is that Don did not produce masters, but only made molds and cast parts.

Masters for unique models, such as yours, were produced by others and then cast by Modelhaus.

I assume that the maker of the master was compensated in some fashion for each unit sold.

I'm certain that you could enlighten us on that fact because if I recall correctly, you provided some of those masters.

Besides that, Modelhaus was an all out business producing thousands of parts.

My assumption is that yours is much more a niche "labor of love" where you work on a project due to your interest in the subject and then offer a limited number of units to the public.

Please carry on good sir.

Your work is an inspiration.

And don't let anyone tell you what you should do with the sweat of your labor.

If I had an interest in a '77/'78 T-Bird, I would be actively pursuing one as we speak, no matter the manner in which you offer them.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited August 9, 2019 by StevenGuthmiller

[Bob Ellis]

Paul, you are doing a great job. I am tired about people complaining about a price on something not even available yet. 

[Can-Con]

Ironic indeed that Modelhaus and Don keep being mentioned. 

Seems that a lot of people mentioning it do not realize that Paul did many of the masters that Don sold.

IRC, , and I may be remembering wrong but, , seems to me that Paul mastered those same Mercury wagons and at least had a hand in the '78 Ford Bruce has mentioned.

 

[American 185 Heavy]

2 hours ago, Can-Con said:

Ironic indeed that Modelhaus and Don keep being mentioned. 

Seems that a lot of people mentioning it do not realize that Paul did many of the masters that Don sold.

IRC, , and I may be remembering wrong but, , seems to me that Paul mastered those same Mercury wagons and at least had a hand in the '78 Ford Bruce has mentioned.

 

What the man mastered or didn't is irrelevant I feel. We are talking about this particular model, not anything and everything ever sold or casted. Amazing how things get completely off tangent and lead to things related, but not about the topic itself. Matters not to me who or what was involved in the Colony Park kit, it was sold by Modelhaus and not on eBay. If he was, thank you it is the pride of my collection. If not, so be it. The price was set, and you could decide in an instant yes or no. Whoever did the work or was involved, bravo and thank you. The day that popped up I said yes immediately because it was fairly priced and something I wanted. Didn't have to wrestle with auctions, potential shills, yes they are part of eBay, and had already seen a built copy of. As for the LTD, if Paul was involved in it, thank you it is gorgeous. Was a joy to build and detail to my 78's specs. But again I only paid $65.00 for the entire kit and was worth it. No auctions, or anything. And the man who sold me the kit and I have become friends so any questions or other items I want if he has them he has earned my business. And he gives me lots of good tips and tricks as well. Proves to me time and time again, life is not what you know but whom you know.

[bobthehobbyguy]

Personally for are those who feel that they have the right to dictate how Paul should run his business it would serve you right if he didn't decide that producing these models is more hassle than its worth.

I seriously doubt he getting rich doing this and it sounds like he's doing it to provide subjects that have not been produced by the mainstream companies.

[randx0]

Nice work . I've had this era thunderbird on my mind lately . I briefly owned a mildly customized '79 . I figure it's about time these start seeing some shine .

[StevenGuthmiller]

8 hours ago, American 185 Heavy said:

What the man mastered or didn't is irrelevant I feel. We are talking about this particular model, not anything and everything ever sold or casted.

I believe that you may be missing the point.

The reason that masters have come up is because you need to understand that as Paul stated in his post, his contribution to this model is in the development stage only.

He does not cast his own kits and needs to contract that part out to a second party.

That party will demand a fee for casting.

You have to remember that the cost of a Modelhaus kit at roughly $100.00 or so, is all mold making and casting costs with a little extra for profit.

There is no compensation for the time and effort involved in creating a master because Modelhaus did not have to create masters.

The large bulk of their kits and parts were direct copies of vintage kit parts.

All that was required was to make molds and begin casting.

I assume that you realize that in order for Paul to make some modicum of profit on this project, he needs to recoup those casting costs and make up for the cost and time of creating the master itself.

So what would be a fair "buy it now" price?

If a Modelhaus kit sold for say $120.00, that's your base......at a minimum.

Add on top of that the largest portion of a project like this, the development, and you will add a substantial amount to that number.

That plus the fact that these will be produced in a very limited run making it that much more difficult to recoup the costs.

Modelhaus sold thousands of parts over years of operation.

You have to take into account the scale of the operation.

It's a little like comparing the corner grocery store to Walmart.

 

So what would you pay as a "buy it now" price....... $200.00?.....$250.00?

 

I think it would shed a great deal of light on the subject if Paul could divulge what his cost per unit will be to offer these to us.

 

 

 

Steve

[Tom Geiger]

6 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I think it would shed a great deal of light on the subject if Paul could divulge what his cost per unit will be to offer these to us.

I don't believe he has to or should.  That would only fan the flames with some of these guys on the board.  Remember there are folks who think a $10 profit is big money!

Also note that Paul sells beautifully completed models on eBay.  These often sell for over $1000 each so there is a ready market of people who will pay for quality. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

I agree with Tom.  What Pauls cost is immaterial. He has stated that his reasons for using the auction format.  There are tools for setting what your maximum bid is on ebay.  The only way you are going to exceed that is if you change that. In my opinion much ado about nothing!

[American 185 Heavy]

15 hours ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

Personally for are those who feel that they have the right to dictate how Paul should run his business it would serve you right if he didn't decide that producing these models is more hassle than its worth.

I seriously doubt he getting rich doing this and it sounds like he's doing it to provide subjects that have not been produced by the mainstream companies.

Sorry but don't agree with you. One model is not a business. Also not having a website for showing things or ordering or a number for contact does not constitute a business where I come from. More of a 'one hit wonder'. I personally never would do business with anyone that I have to pm on this site for information etc. And keep in mind as was mentioned on another site, he did have the venerable 'Gran Torino' kit by Revell as a starting point. So yes he put an extraordinary amount of effort into this and that is admirable in itself. But don't for a minute think that someone along the way won't acquire one of these models, and run off copies to recover his/her purchase cost and offer them for less. Then the whining about piracy and it not being fair or right will start as well. Hey as others have said this is America land of the free. So all this must be taken into account. Makes no difference to me in any way as I will not be buying. Will wait a few months/years and someone in Europe or elsewhere or maybe even a manufacturer will offer the model. Lindbergh did decades ago, and for now at least I have that one !!!

[bobthehobbyguy]

Amazing. Again you continue to dictate how Paul should run his business. And then you justify why somebody has the right to steal his hard work. Nobody wins with recasts. More then likely the one who has put the effort in creating the original ceases to produce any more original works which deprives those who would buy. The intentional or unintentional(has no knowledge of the original producer) buyer of the recast gets a substandard product.  A lose lose proposition for all.

[Bill Eh?]

Moderators, i"m thinking that it might be time to bring this thread to a close. An individual appears to have the need to get the last word in. All it appears to do, is exacerbate the situation. All at the cost of an individual who innocently posted a wonderful new creation.

[American 185 Heavy]

18 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

Amazing. Again you continue to dictate how Paul should run his business. And then you justify why somebody has the right to steal his hard work. Nobody wins with recasts. More then likely the one who has put the effort in creating the original ceases to produce any more original works which deprives those who would buy. The intentional or unintentional(has no knowledge of the original producer) buyer of the recast gets a substandard product.  A lose lose proposition for all.

To be perfectly honest sir, I could honestly care less. What he does with this is his choice and no one else's. The small model club I belong to won't be customers and although fun to follow the progress of, holds no 'BIDDING' interest to any of us. If he auctions all, terrific. If he decides to hoard them, terrific too. If he never makes another that is terrific too. It is his model and no one else's. Like Lee Iacocca once said in a news conference, 'Detroit should not build more or less than they can sell.' Very true words.

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

I don't believe he has to or should.  That would only fan the flames with some of these guys on the board.

1 hour ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

I agree with Tom.  What Pauls cost is immaterial. He has stated that his reasons for using the auction format.

 

I will concede that point.

It really is none of our business.

I just thought that being as Paul would have us guess what that cost would be, that it might shed some light on his argument for auctioning his items rather than trying to set a price for them.

 

I will just end my part of this discussion by saying that I really find the whole idea of people shunning ebay because they don't want to participate in a "bidding war" a completely bogus argument.

As I stated before, the only way to become engaged in a bidding war is to allow yourself to.

 

If someone feels that Paul should offer these at a set price, they obviously have some sort of price in mind.

When these models come up for auction on ebay, it would be a pretty simple task to place a single bid for the maximum amount that you believe that the item is worth to you and walk away.

One of two things will happen.

Either the "premium price" that some have stated that they are willing to pay will be sufficient in order to win one, or it will not.

 

It's for this reason that I'm beginning to feel that some people's aversion to ebay has absolutely nothing to do with "bidding wars" and more to do with their distaste for ebay in general.

Nothing wrong with that either,  but let's just call a spade a spade.

 

 

Steve

[Dale Gribble]

5 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

 

 

I will just end my part of this discussion by saying that I really find the whole idea of people shunning ebay because they don't want to participate in a "bidding war" a completely bogus argument 

When these models come up for auction on ebay, it would be a pretty simple task to place a single bid for the maximum amount that you believe that the item is worth to you and walk away.

~

It's for this reason that I'm beginning to feel that some people's aversion to ebay has absolutely nothing to do with "bidding wars" and more to do with their distaste for ebay in general.

 

 

 

You’re wrong . I sell tons on eBay , but I don’t purchase anything unless it’s a buy it now . I don’t play the “what’s the price gonna be in 2 days” game . And as much as you say you can set a max price and walk away , always tossing that extra 5$ on “because maybe” happens more than anyone wants to admit . I just refuse to play that game . I have kits in my collection I have parted with hundreds of dollars for , so I don’t mind spending . But I just flat out don’t gamble .... in the casino or on eBay 

[American 185 Heavy]

13 minutes ago, Dale Gribble said:

You’re wrong . I sell tons on eBay , but I don’t purchase anything unless it’s a buy it now . I don’t play the “what’s the price gonna be in 2 days” game . And as much as you say you can set a max price and walk away , always tossing that extra 5$ on “because maybe” happens more than anyone wants to admit . I just refuse to play that game . I have kits in my collection I have parted with hundreds of dollars for , so I don’t mind spending . But I just flat out don’t gamble .... in the casino or on eBay 

A gentleman and a scholar. Thank you. Hopefully but doubtful it ends this dribble...….

[Curt]

I don’t see what the big deal is.  Auction selling has gone on for hundreds of years.  Some people like them, some don’t but if that is how someone chooses to sell their property you either bid or don’t.  There is no game.

 

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, American 185 Heavy said:

A gentleman and a scholar. Thank you. Hopefully but doubtful it ends this dribble...….

I think you mean "drivel".

Dribble is what old guys do on their shirt.

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

There is no game.

 

Exactly.

 

 

Steve

[American 185 Heavy]

34 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I think you mean "drivel".

Dribble is what old guys do on their shirt.

 

 

Steve

Hee Hee !!! Yes that is what I meant. Didn't check my spelling was in too big of a hurry to go do some errands !!

[Luc Janssens]

This bird looks awesome! great job Paul!!!