Jump to content
Model Cars Magazine Forum
Paul Hettick

77- 78 Thunderbird in 1/25th scale. first copy

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I understand.

But this is not Modelhaus.

Paul has decided that he is going to produce a limited number of his kits and for obvious reasons he does not want to spend the time, money and effort to put together a website, so he sells them on the most obvious place, ebay.

Granted, he could set a price and sell them all in 18 seconds, or he can put them up for auction and let them go to the highest bidder.

Nothing wrong with that.

This is still America, at least for the time being.

I don't begrudge Paul making whatever profit he can from his labor. 

Steve

Fine, but I'm not interested unless I can buy something directly for a fixed price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The maker has every right to charge and/or sell for any price or method they wish. 

As stated I was a manufacture and if I added up what I have spent on other cottage model car manufactures....I could buy a high end real car easy. Only selling via auction is fine and sellers right.....but it is far from the norm in our hobby and thus I will miss out on a great item......but I have more than I can build anyway. thx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Paul Hettick said:

Gosh, sorry I posted the pix.

No need for an apology at all Paul!

This is a work of art that you created and it's your property to do with as you please.

I get the impression that you do this more for the fun of it than as a business, so you have no obligation to anyone to offer them your work for a bargain.

 

I think of it along the same lines as a vintage kit.

They are out there but rare, ( in this case, much more rare than most vintage kits) and if you want one you're probably going to have to compete to get one with fellow enthusiasts who want it as much, or more, than you.

You can buy vintage kits at a "set price" as well, but we all know what kinds of prices we're talking about there!

People complain that they don't want to "get into a bidding war" which is code for "I want it cheap".

The market will dictate the value, and I can't see any better way to determine the value than to offer them up for auction.

 

 

Steve

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

No need for an apology at all Paul!

This is a work of art that you created and it's your property to do with as you please.

I get the impression that you do this more for the fun of it than as a business, so you have no obligation to anyone to offer them your work for a bargain.

 

I think of it along the same lines as a vintage kit.

They are out there but rare, ( in this case, much more rare than most vintage kits) and if you want one you're probably going to have to compete to get one with fellow enthusiasts who want it as much, or more, than you.

You can buy vintage kits at a "set price" as well, but we all know what kinds of prices we're talking about there!

People complain that they don't want to "get into a bidding war" which is code for "I want it cheap".

The market will dictate the value, and I can't see any better way to determine the value than to offer them up for auction.

 

 

Steve

 

I couldn't have said it any better! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I understand.

But this is not Modelhaus.

Paul has decided that he is going to produce a limited number of his kits and for obvious reasons he does not want to spend the time, money and effort to put together a website, so he sells them on the most obvious place, ebay.

Granted, he could set a price and sell them all in 18 seconds, or he can put them up for auction and let them go to the highest bidder.

Nothing wrong with that.

This is still America, at least for the time being.

I don't begrudge Paul making whatever profit he can from his labor.

 

 

 

Steve

I agree 100%, If he can get market price on the first several kits or so more power to him.  I've already purchased two of Paul's kit at his starting bid price just by being patient, no muss, fuss or bidding war.    I'm very pleased with both and I have no problem waiting for the prices to come down on the next one I'm interested in.  Shipping was fast too.  Keep up the great work Paul !!

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Aah bs ...Saying that I don’t wish to get into a bidding war does not equate that I want it cheap. As I said before, I’m willing to pay a premium price for a premium product. But I will not play bidding games with people. That’s setting yourself up for all kinds of nonsense  that I don’t wish to get into .l . People bidding just for the sake of driving up the price with no intentions of purchasing, which plays with your emotions to make you bid even higher on the item.  Screw that. I didn’t realize I was going to start a little debate with this comment, but apparently I’m not the only one that feels this way. And it looks like you’re going to miss out on a fair amount of sales for people such as myself who feel the exact same way 

Edited by Dale Gribble
Corrections

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

 

People complain that they don't want to "get into a bidding war" which is code for "I want it cheap".

 

Wrong.  'set price' simply means a 'set price'.  I've bought many Modelhaus, Air-Trax, etc resin kits at set prices well over $100.  I'm not a cheapskate, which is a trait that a lot of modelers do have, though. 

Edited by Rob Hall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dale Gribble said:

Aah bs ...Saying that I don’t wish to get into a bidding war does not equate that I want it cheap. As I said before, I’m willing to pay a premium price for a premium product. But I will not play bidding games with people. That’s setting yourself up for all kinds of nonsense  that I don’t wish to get into .l . People bidding just for the sake of driving up the price with no intentions of purchasing, which plays with your emotions to make you bid even higher on the item.  Screw that. I didn’t realize I was going to start a little debate with this comment, but apparently I’m not the only one that feels this way. And it looks like you’re going to miss out on a fair amount of sales for people such as myself who feel the exact same way 

I have bought a ton of vintage kits on ebay, and I have never once engaged in a bidding war.

You can only become involved in a bidding war if YOU choose to.

Before I bid on any item on an auction site, I decide at the very beginning what the top dollar that I am willing to pay for that item is, place the bid, and walk away.

If I win, terrific.

If not, there's always next time.

Nobody can force you to "play bidding games with people".

That's up to you.

 

I'm quite confident that Paul will have no issues selling everyone of these kits that he chooses to cast.

Whether they sell for $1.00, or $1,000.00.

I wouldn't worry Dale, he's not going to miss out on any sales.

 

 

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Rob Hall said:

Wrong.  'set price' simply means a 'set price'.  I've bought many Modelhaus, Air-Trax, etc resin kits at set prices well over $100.  I'm not a cheapskate, which is a trait that a lot of modelers do have, though. 

I know what a set price is Rob, and I'm not insinuating that you are a cheap skate.

But after spending hundreds of hours creating a master and making molds, why would you volenteer to sell 10 times the number of units for a tenth of the price that you MIGHT get if you just let the consumer decide the value.

It just makes perfect economic sense to let the buyer make that determination in a circumstance like this.

 

There's a reason why you don't see Barrett Jackson selling cars on a set price basis.

 

 

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thunderbird looks spot on. My parents owned one and in a storm a tree fell on it. Ah the memories. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, wrenchr said:

The thunderbird looks spot on. My parents owned one and in a storm a tree fell on it. Ah the memories. 

It does look good.  My Mom had a white '77 w/ a dark green top and interior.   Traded a '73 Cougar on it.   Then later traded for a silver blue '81 Thunderbird. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wait........we get mad at folks buying kits at Hobby Lobby for $7.49 and listing them on ebay.........

But if any of us wish we could just order a aftermarket item and NOT have to out bid a fellow modeler ....we are somehow bad???

We are a strange lot for sure......no wonder we are known as the lunatic fringe!!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dave Van said:

Wait........we get mad at folks buying kits at Hobby Lobby for $7.49 and listing them on ebay.........

But if any of us wish we could just order a aftermarket item and NOT have to out bid a fellow modeler ....we are somehow bad???

We are a strange lot for sure......no wonder we are known as the lunatic fringe!!!!

I could care less if people buy kits at Hobby Lobby and then sell them on ebay.

Doesn't bother me in the least.

I suppose SOME people get mad.

 

Nobody is bad here.

Including Paul for trying to get what he can for his creations with the least amount of hassle possible.

 

Anyone here who feels that they should be able to buy a '77-'78 T-bird kit under their conditions is surely free to go ahead and create their own and sell them for whatever they see fit.

You can give them away if you choose.

 

 

Steve

Edited by StevenGuthmiller

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't care about the HL vultures either.......but some here would hang them in a minute. 

I know that when I was no longer able to sell my resin kits at a reasonable price I got out. So been there done that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

 

I wouldn't worry Dale, he's not going to miss out on any sales.

 

 

Steve

Well , sure he will , those of us who would gladly pay the premium price , but won’t play eBay games ..... we won’t buy , that’s missed sales ..... and again, it’s not cause I’m cheap , far from that .... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Let's agree to disagree? :) 

On one hand, I feel that whatever it takes to bring something to market, if a nice given item comes to market, then it helps everybody. On the other hand, if somebody is uncomfortable with a particular buying format, then they have the right to say so- call it feedback to the seller/ creator. I don't think anybody was necessarily trashing Paul about this, but "thanks but no thanks" was definitely heard.

I think we might be moving to a new reality as far as availability of resin bodies and kits. I think that total market is shrinking, and traditional advertising (magazines) is disappearing. Setting up a website, and fixed pricing add greatly to the expense, and resin casting bodies & kits is very labor intensive and pricy to begin with. 

I, like many, wondered about what would happen to the Modelhaus as they wound things down. We all had really hoped that somebody would keep it going. I think they built up a great business in the circumstances of their time, but, it would have taken somebody who was able to go into that enterprise with truly massive amounts of expertise, business acumen, commitment, time on their hands, and money to just buy the whole thing turnkey and keep it going. I just don't think anybody in the entire world who fit all of those criteria exists. I think these are the challenges facing anybody who gets into this kind of production right now.

There is another Creator out there right now, who has ambitious plans to start producing kits of similar subjects. He posts on this board. The subjects and masters he has created so far are very impressive, and the list of what he wants to do is even more so. I think the challenges he faces are: 1) balancing his full time job with what he commits to his new side gig, 2) balancing the time he puts into creating the products he wants to offer vs. either casing them himself or getting somebody else to do it, and 3) raising capital to develop the products he wants to. The solution he found is the auction route for his initial products, much like this.

My read on this is that nobody is getting rich on offering resin kits. You could say that offering them at a fixed price might be a friendlier way of doing it, but then again, if you want to raise capital to reinvest, you can't leave money on the table. Most new technologies usually follow this, where fixed prices are relatively high at introduction, then, as demand increases, production increases, and eventually, prices come down.  

What I found with the other Creator's items was that the first few sold for prices that were way too rich for my blood, but, eventually others were offered and I eventually got what I wanted for a price I could justify. My hope is that they're offered long enough for the prices to actually come down a bit - that would be the only point of fairness that I personally would hope for with this sales model. As long as production is not permanently limited to keep prices astronomical, then I would consider the auction sales model fair (but that's just my opinion).

Notice what some Modelhaus kits and parts are selling for now that they have closed down. Same with AAM, and certain other former casters. Sort of the reverse situation of the "startup auction sales" model. The reality is that no matter what we do, everything available in our little hobby is going to be subject to "supply and demand". If that's what it takes to bring really great new product to market, then I can live with that to an extent.

BTW Paul- that T-Bird is a real beauty. I can appreciate what you put into that one, although personally, that car is not my cup of tea. If you make a nice 1978 Dodge Magnum GT you will have my full attention! :)

Edited by CapSat 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Comment deleted.

Edited by afx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul The  Finished Body looks great. 

Sell these anyway you want. It is your money, time and effort. 

For the people that do not want an auction if you sell anything on ebay do you have everything listed as a buy it now then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 1930fordpickup said:

 

For the people that do not want an auction if you sell anything on ebay do you have everything listed as a buy it now then?

All my listings are BIN , no offers,  saves hassle and headache on both ends  .... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, CapSat 6 said:

Let's agree to disagree? :) 

On one hand, I feel that whatever it takes to bring something to market, if a nice given item comes to market, then it helps everybody. On the other hand, if somebody is uncomfortable with a particular buying format, then they have the right to say so- call it feedback to the seller/ creator. I don't think anybody was necessarily trashing Paul about this, but "thanks but no thanks" was definitely heard.

I think we might be moving to a new reality as far as availability of resin bodies and kits. I think that total market is shrinking, and traditional advertising (magazines) is disappearing. Setting up a website, and fixed pricing add greatly to the expense, and resin casting bodies & kits is very labor intensive and pricy to begin with. 

I, like many, wondered about what would happen to the Modelhaus as they wound things down. We all had really hoped that somebody would keep it going. I think they built up a great business in the circumstances of their time, but, it would have taken somebody who was able to go into that enterprise with truly massive amounts of expertise, business acumen, commitment, time on their hands, and money to just buy the whole thing turnkey and keep it going. I just don't think anybody in the entire world who fit all of those criteria exists. I think these are the challenges facing anybody who gets into this kind of production right now.

There is another Creator out there right now, who has ambitious plans to start producing kits of similar subjects. He posts on this board. The subjects and masters he has created so far are very impressive, and the list of what he wants to do is even more so. I think the challenges he faces are: 1) balancing his full time job with what he commits to his new side gig, 2) balancing the time he puts into creating the products he wants to offer vs. either casing them himself or getting somebody else to do it, and 3) raising capital to develop the products he wants to. The solution he found is the auction route for his initial products, much like this.

My read on this is that nobody is getting rich on offering resin kits. You could say that offering them at a fixed price might be a friendlier way of doing it, but then again, if you want to raise capital to reinvest, you can't leave money on the table. Most new technologies usually follow this, where fixed prices are relatively high at introduction, then, as demand increases, production increases, and eventually, prices come down.  

What I found with the other Creator's items was that the first few sold for prices that were way too rich for my blood, but, eventually others were offered and I eventually got what I wanted for a price I could justify. My hope is that they're offered long enough for the prices to actually come down a bit - that would be the only point of fairness that I personally would hope for with this sales model. As long as production is not permanently limited to keep prices astronomical, then I would consider the auction sales model fair (but that's just my opinion).

Notice what some Modelhaus kits and parts are selling for now that they have closed down. Same with AAM, and certain other former casters. Sort of the reverse situation of the "startup auction sales" model. The reality is that no matter what we do, everything available in our little hobby is going to be subject to "supply and demand". If that's what it takes to bring really great new product to market, then I can live with that to an extent.

BTW Paul- that T-Bird is a real beauty. I can appreciate what you put into that one, although personally, that car is not my cup of tea. If you make a nice 1978 Dodge Magnum GT you will have my full attention! :)

VERY well said.

I tend to agree with both sides here. Its his product to sell in his fashion / method of choice.

I tend to avoid auctions per-say. when I do make a bid its either at the last few seconds to keep shill bidders from driving it up in the name of profit.

If a last second bid is not feasible. I'll put my max bid in if/ when I can.( typically within the last few hours ) and walk away. If I get it,,,fine, if not ,,also fine.

 

In regards to the subject matter here , Thanks. But It's of zero interest to me at any price

Edited by gtx6970

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, CapSat 6 said:

Let's agree to disagree? :) 

On one hand, I feel that whatever it takes to bring something to market, if a nice given item comes to market, then it helps everybody. On the other hand, if somebody is uncomfortable with a particular buying format, then they have the right to say so- call it feedback to the seller/ creator. I don't think anybody was necessarily trashing Paul about this, but "thanks but no thanks" was definitely heard.

I think we might be moving to a new reality as far as availability of resin bodies and kits. I think that total market is shrinking, and traditional advertising (magazines) is disappearing. Setting up a website, and fixed pricing add greatly to the expense, and resin casting bodies & kits is very labor intensive and pricy to begin with. 

I, like many, wondered about what would happen to the Modelhaus as they wound things down. We all had really hoped that somebody would keep it going. I think they built up a great business in the circumstances of their time, but, it would have taken somebody who was able to go into that enterprise with truly massive amounts of expertise, business acumen, commitment, time on their hands, and money to just buy the whole thing turnkey and keep it going. I just don't think anybody in the entire world who fit all of those criteria exists. I think these are the challenges facing anybody who gets into this kind of production right now.

There is another Creator out there right now, who has ambitious plans to start producing kits of similar subjects. He posts on this board. The subjects and masters he has created so far are very impressive, and the list of what he wants to do is even more so. I think the challenges he faces are: 1) balancing his full time job with what he commits to his new side gig, 2) balancing the time he puts into creating the products he wants to offer vs. either casing them himself or getting somebody else to do it, and 3) raising capital to develop the products he wants to. The solution he found is the auction route for his initial products, much like this.

My read on this is that nobody is getting rich on offering resin kits. You could say that offering them at a fixed price might be a friendlier way of doing it, but then again, if you want to raise capital to reinvest, you can't leave money on the table. Most new technologies usually follow this, where fixed prices are relatively high at introduction, then, as demand increases, production increases, and eventually, prices come down.  

What I found with the other Creator's items was that the first few sold for prices that were way too rich for my blood, but, eventually others were offered and I eventually got what I wanted for a price I could justify. My hope is that they're offered long enough for the prices to actually come down a bit - that would be the only point of fairness that I personally would hope for with this sales model. As long as production is not permanently limited to keep prices astronomical, then I would consider the auction sales model fair (but that's just my opinion).

Notice what some Modelhaus kits and parts are selling for now that they have closed down. Same with AAM, and certain other former casters. Sort of the reverse situation of the "startup auction sales" model. The reality is that no matter what we do, everything available in our little hobby is going to be subject to "supply and demand". If that's what it takes to bring really great new product to market, then I can live with that to an extent.

BTW Paul- that T-Bird is a real beauty. I can appreciate what you put into that one, although personally, that car is not my cup of tea. If you make a nice 1978 Dodge Magnum GT you will have my full attention! :)

I think that's all pretty well stated, all be it a little lengthy! :D

Seriously Bill, that pretty much sums up the situation.

I was merely voicing my support for what Paul does, and I feel that his method of selling is completely irrelevant.

Either you buy, or not.

Your decision.

But if you're afraid of auctions, you will likely be missing out in this particular instance.

Also your decision.

 

Personally, I don't even have a dog in this hunt.

The late 70s T-bird holds no interest for me and I won't be pursuing one at all.

 

 

 

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Dale Gribble said:

Well , sure he will , those of us who would gladly pay the premium price , but won’t play eBay games ..... we won’t buy , that’s missed sales ..... and again, it’s not cause I’m cheap , far from that .... 

Let's check back with Paul in a year and see how many unsold '77 T-birds he has sitting around.

There is no doubt in my mind that he will sell all that he cares to produce, regardless of where he sells them.

He will miss out on nothing.

But those who refuse to give ebay a chance on some later casts of these, might be missing out on some pretty good deals in the end.

 

 

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, gtx6970 said:

VERY well said.

Thanks, Bill! I try... ;)

38 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I think that's all pretty well stated, all be it a little lengthy! :D

Personally, I don't even have a dog in this hunt.

Thanks, Steve! I’ve always been a little wordy. I do Ok... ;)

I don’t have a dog in this hunt, either- but I’m seeing more and more just like this one. It is what it is...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, CapSat 6 said:

There is another Creator out there right now, who has ambitious plans to start producing kits of similar subjects. He posts on this board. The subjects and masters he has created so far are very impressive, and the list of what he wants to do is even more so. I think the challenges he faces are: 1) balancing his full time job with what he commits to his new side gig, 2) balancing the time he puts into creating the products he wants to offer vs. either casing them himself or getting somebody else to do it, and 3) raising capital to develop the products he wants to. The solution he found is the auction route for his initial products, much like this.

I know of who you're speaking about and not long ago, he had something on eBay that I wanted BADLY! I put in a set bid and sure enough, right at the last minute someone jumped in and sniped it. I was a little depressed, but I figured that's how it goes. A day or so later, the seller had dropped me a line to let me know that he had another one to offer and if I was interested, he would sell it to me at the auction price.......no bidding! :)

Of course, I jumped at the chance and I agree that this is the way he likes to do business. He didn't have to do that and I was VERY appreciative as this is something that no one else is offering at the moment.

And yes, he is offering things that would be considered very esoteric by most, but for those of us that are into those oddball cars that will never see the light of day from the major model manufacturers, we at least have this avenue (eBay) to get what we want. Not suitable for everyone..........I get that, but like you said with a lot of caster's time at a premium with full time jobs and whatnot, this is what works for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...