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Since the Riviera is nearing completion, it is time to begin plans on the next cars to reach the workbench.  This time I want to build something completely different for me.  I am planning a couple Bonneville salt "What If's" fantasy builds.   First up is a body that I created many years ago for the Norman E. Timbs Special I built.  This is a body that I vacuum formed  which I intended to build his roadster from but after careful inspection rejected because the rear contours were not correct.  I corrected the buck and remolded the body, so this is a one off body that is slightly different from the final Timbs car.  Here is a link to that posting from a number of years ago............ 

uuGCHTyyelSqX3MJR1KVvK0yy6JXJhCj8z1OGxkJI always thought that this shape would make a great Bonneville race car so now I think it is time to get it built.0oRrHG5hWqy5bJKlYwIX-P_PXYqekQ-nzLB4rOQzJust from the "yellowing" of the plastic, you can see I have had this for some time now.BYRtorOx2fr95vuvY23z4dU8ITB0z7XgkuJSLCBHI am thinking maybe twin Hemi engines sitting side by side and a single seat way up front...... could work. right?   The second car is from a clay mold I sculpted many years ago with no particular plan for the final body.  It is kinda'' like a Group C race car and kinda' futuristic.  It sat around for years and the other day while molding some roofs (one for the Riviera) I figured I would knock one off of this car too.  After looking at it the idea of a Salt Flat car hit me.  Especially because of the body from the Timbs car I thought why not.  If building one salt flat car is good, two would be even better, right?  For this car I am thinking an Allison Engine since the car is bigger and beefier, so the engine should fit in there.  Here is the clay master.   hSCCEkcO-Ux5o5XTDx3xOudY3B_xBqr1iGwvK6MHAnd here is the body molded from the master    Rear view.NOKAL_qY-fkbMUOXSupe5NFep2qGjAyLWE1FX_udFront view  KsIh7F4TcGrO64IjtfPa_k3cG0h94TFzv6HFN-QgYou can get an idea of what I am thinking for the cockpit area and where the body will separate to open the engine bay.  Think scratch build tube chassis and full independent suspensions .  I want the wheel areas to be enclosed and louvered areas to allow air to escape.  Could work. right?   

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Hello Peter, it's been a long time!

I have not been on the forum much, but was glad to see your name pop up again!

I will be following this project, I think you sent me this body awhile back. I will have to try and find it.

happy modeling...B)

Curt

 

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29 minutes ago, curt raitz said:

Hello Peter, it's been a long time!

I have not been on the forum much, but was glad to see your name pop up again!

I will be following this project, I think you sent me this body awhile back. I will have to try and find it.

happy modeling...B)

Curt

 

Yeah, I thought you haven't been around in a while..... I am on and off due to a new business I have started which is killing my time..... I just posted to your rear engine Ford truck.... very nice.

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Admirable project. I suppose that most modelers know that the real 1:1 Timbs '48 streamliner was lost in the California wildfires earlier this year.

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18 minutes ago, misterNNL said:

Admirable project. I suppose that most modelers know that the real 1:1 Timbs '48 streamliner was lost in the California wildfires earlier this year.

Yes.... that makes my model more important then ever.  Here is the story... https://www.thedrive.com/news/24870/california-wildfire-claims-vintage-car-collection-including-1-of-1-1948-norman-timbs-special

So sad.

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Nice looking bodies. I think that first one would look good with the body facing either direction.

Later-

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Ah, Bonneville... Inspiring site. Here's to the salt!

Keep going, it will be interesting!

CT

 

DSCF3113.JPG

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I have been working on one of the salt flat cars.  I have added the openings for the vent louvers over the four wheels.  These will have quarter round louvers added to the front of the opening and then smoothed into place.  Since you may not see my plan for the car, I did a quick pencil sketch of what I am planning.  The rear will have a spoiler basically level with the rear deck extended back with the drag parachute below that.   Besides the numbers and lettering, a few sponsor decals will be added and the body will have stripes done in white, candy blue and yellow.  The chassis will be hand made mostly with small diameter tubing on a basic frame rails bade from rectangular stock with an independent suspension front and rear.  I am planning a blown Allison engine. n_6gi342TpUjHBJuhRdiAeWEjkLnh1eIZ7wpNv_HXNBFA-SWHkpKlm0cD4cuKMmdvrqUMdig1XY27r02OWOJu7K-QirZ2-Xzr-9FuxS29kdFteMXtEp_fUJrHere is the quick rendering.PStsXzd565XUTJueyehxJskjk7uw_Sb-iodZRUoj

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Well, since no one appears to be interested in this build, I am only posting this update for myself just so I have a record of what I have done to the car.  I just opened up the twin vents behind the cockpit to allow air into the engine compartment to cool things off as it is running in the hot salt desert.  That air would exit from the rear vents on either side of the chute which are yet to be added.l5pHdennEXxgaBdTpYX1wtHzq3QCsfkp0-48x5N7next I have added the louvers over the 4 wheel areas.  These are quarter round stock which are being sanded into shape.  The first shot is prior to any shaping 9DRAKc2FoOaDGBcGvkzQy8g5yxa2_uIUb4luQ7FZand the second shot is after the first round of sanding and shaping has startedUj9icIOAq_NalQpFk_b54SUhs37bzSbsa7MunlZ_here is the rear sectionTsSTAlKv_IOhb9fMfCLIxkvxIqbIwJ3411Ds9L6YzpRlI9XwiI09bZezM8RBZZSpb5iu9Q_Ycu6j-5FPrVyreRU6cqDKK8MjC4reSRw-B2yWZuACEN649bqvZcpaw_nJKhMRPdCLDxbHY-EBuiB65k_CC_WCIvOj

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Hi!

Interesting addition. Judging from the light spots on the side of the body in the first pix above... the thickness of the body seems minimal. Or is it just because there is no coating/primer on it yet? Is it fragile to handle? What's the material?

CT

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The sheet polystyrene that I vacuum form the bodies and tops from is .02 thick.  It is much closer to the correct scale for 1/25 cars than the thickness of most model kits.  I buy 4 X 8 sheets and cut it into 1 square foot sections which fits my vacuum form unit.  It can be a little thin but with the usual internal bracing and support structure, it is just fine.  I have had absolutely no issues with this thickness.  Another advantage to this thickness is that it is very easy to open up doors and windows in it.  Here is a car I did a few years ago, you can see the thickness of the material on the door at the edgeBuHydr3YoSrovVdVF0U33C7OGExh7sJZZbo5_8_E8wxx8TAhEsAxildK_4SPn-NRjJtsOU3bhEVd6ChiYolnW-jGXc0Tdz4wyVb8EKxXBjvkjFwedCVDItE-and finished..... note the blackout around the window edges like I mentioned about your Riviera windows.  This car is entirely made of the .02 styrene and it is very strong with no "body wiggle".UaQuac43Zqee9IPQF5XE75yG2Sm6lgeaH_7J_mvRVirFMSwITqNVQMDNBjqU6asE2wXi3TwBfFAD7c-x

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Really enjoy watching Salters come together.  However looking through this WIP, many of your pictures are not showing - at least on my computer.

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Hi!

Convincing technique. I see you "reinforce" your opening contours with what appears to be half-round extrusions. That sure adds rigidity. 

CT

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2 hours ago, Claude Thibodeau said:

Hi!

Convincing technique. I see you "reinforce" your opening contours with what appears to be half-round extrusions. That sure adds rigidity. 

CT

Yes, on this car I wanted to represent black molding like you would see on a factory car.  The salt flat cars will not receive that treatment but the attachment of the clear acetate adds plenty of strength to the area.  Many ways to get the strength needed on the car and internal bulkheads achieve extreme rigidity. 

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18 hours ago, Peter Lombardo said:

Well, since no one appears to be interested in this build, I am only posting this update for myself just so I have a record of what I have done to the car.  

Speaking for myself, I'm always interested in seeing your projects come together. Any lack of views/replies might have something to do to the rather ambiguous thread title more than anything else, IMHO.

I'm looking forward to seeing the blown Allison.

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Posted (edited)

Very interesting techniques being used here and neat results as well. I am watching closely.I ould be interested in seeing a tutorial of exactly how you do your vacuum forming. I have a Styrofoam buck made for a 1/25th sale 1936 Airstream body shell that I would like to form but have no clue how to proceed.

Edited by misterNNL
additional information.

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Sure, I will be glad to show you how I use vacuum forming, from start to finish.  I will start a thread in a couple of days.

29 minutes ago, misterNNL said:

Very interesting techniques being used here and neat results as well. I am watching closely.I would be interested in seeing a tutorial of exactly how you do your vacuum forming. I have a Styrofoam buck made for a 1/25th sale 1936 Air-stream body shell that I would like to form but have no clue how to proceed.

 

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Okay, looks like I have time now to show this, the only problem is that I do not have access to our oven as it is being replaced, being that is summer and not being used.  I have a previously molded body so I can show you using that.  First thing, obviously you need a vacuum forming rig.  I got mine a number of years ago from a guy, I think, in Texas.  I just googled vacuum form machine and found many priced around $400 to $600 each.  Professional units and way more than you need.  We paid just under $100 and I found a couple on E Bay around $100.  Just google "cheap vacuum form machine" and you will see them if you need to purchase one.  Step one.  You need a vacuum cleaner to provide the suction to pull the heated styrene down over the buck  I use an old Sears canister model for thatfI-kCAiToNa7ucKRPopjp0p2V1KxRa96PHDlp5Eg  The vacuum form table has a hole in the side where the other end of the vacuum fits intoHqwXKiZ_oUoHT8iHLWfbprPJpwwlAt42aIvIrHFdOn the vacuum form table I have place 4 coins which I use to elevate the buck off the table top so I get a cleaner bottom edge.  CJGmRpJf71gbjgfe25Oo14u9y6KeRYKHk0RQXZQ1Next I place the buck on the table top balanced on the 4 coins.  -Iu9oVIOviWriUB5OdxXjKQ5idGNudRf7x8YTJrl Note, this is an older car I did back in 2010.  Now, and this is very important to note.  One of the serious limitations to vacuum forming is that you can't, let me rephrase that, shouldn't design a buck that curves inward at the bottom because once the hot plastic is sucked down over it, you can't get the buck out without serious damage to the body and maybe even the mold master.  If you have a design that must come in on the bottom, you way want to vacuum form the top side, then turn the mold over and vacuum form the bottom side.... I have done this a number of times and it works well, but requires skill to "cut and paste" the two half together.  As you can see on this design, it is created so that it is relatively easy to separate the master from the body shell.Here is a side view of the master on the table I31GcA_w2D6T7_2Aw7kKnb1RCCxiCnmuNmVoQMM7Once this is set and ready, you need to find a roasting pan that can go in the oven which is big enough to handle the styrene sheet clamped in the frame.nZkOLAms2CiSUiDDrhs0s_u2vpGvdGouSCtZOmgYHere the two part frame (which comes with the vacuum table along with the alligator clamps to hold the frame and sandwich together  Pre heat your oven to 400 degrees with just the roasting pan in the center.  Once the oven is up to temperature, and just know that too hot is better than not hot enough, so give it some time as your patience will be rewarded.  Once your oven is hot enough, open the door and place the styrene sandwich in the frame on the roasting pan as shown above.  Now it gets a little weird.  As the molecules in the styrene heat up they get all confused and begin to move about within the styrene.  The styrene will get all wrinkly, but don't touch it because within a few seconds the styrene molecules will clean up their act and get back in line and the styrene will smooth out again.  Be patient.  After about 30 to 40 seconds you will see the styrene begin to sag a little. (of course, you should have the oven door closed, but most likely you will be peeking in to see what is happening.  You can open the door a little and if so, blow some air (using your mouth) at the styrene in the frame if you can see that it moves with little waves when you blow you are just about ready. Grab a pair of oven mitts, unless you have hands of asbestos, turn on the vacuum cleaner which should be positioned as close to the oven as possible to get the suction going and grab the frame on the sides careful not to touch the styrene so as to not leave any marks from the oven mitt since the styrene is very, very soft and susceptible to damage.  P5WuMvwCPbM6ZUNJ9VlsfXmE15jo-xRZrtnJ4rFINow as quickly as you can strongly place the framed styrene over the master and press down so the frame rests on the vacuum table.  You will hear and feel a "rush" as the hot pliable styrene gets pulled down over the master by the suction.  Close the oven door and then pull the frame and molded car off of the vacuum table.   Remove the frame, be careful, it is still hot, from the styrene.  Let it cool, if you want to speed up the process, you can place the styrene with the mold still in it in the freezer to help shrink the master within the formerly hot styrene.  It may be a little tricky to get the master to release, but with care, a small screw driver and even a hobby knife it will come apart but be careful not to damage the master too much.  I like to use a scissor often to cut around the master as close to it as I can if the master is being overly stubborn to release.  If you think it will help, if you have mold release powder handy or even talcum powder brush some over the master before you place the styrene in the oven.  I have used both and really don't see any improvement with it, but hey, if you want to use it, it will not hurt anything.  In extreme cases I have had to cut the edge of the molded car body to aid in its release.  That is not a big deal as the styrene glues back together very easily.   5-hx2vq45CsFaL9c9E4P1enkGLasXJDAuurHoYZ5  In this last picture you see the molded body after the master is removed.  Notice in the front left bottom of the fender there is a little "flap" of excess styrene.  Don't worry about that it is an easy fix with a little glue and putty.  Now place another square of styrene in the frame and place it into the oven if you want another body and repeat the process, or if not, remember to turn off the oven so you don't get yelled at by your wife later for wasting energy. 

Seriously, the hardest part of the process is creating the master, the rest is actually very simple, once you have done it a few times, oh, and don't get frustrated if the first one or two body's come out kinda screwed up.... it took me a while to get it right...... the biggest problem I encountered early on was not allowing the styrene to heat up sufficiently enough to to be soft enough to capture all of the detail of the master, so remember as I said before, a little too hot is better then not hot enough...... patience when heating the styrene up. 

Any question, please do not hesitate to ask, any corrections, keep them to yourself..... NO, just kidding, anything you think I got wrong, by all means let us know, and if you have had a different experience, feel free to mention any and all of it.  

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Peter,  Thanks for posting the salts, I needed the inspiration.  I am at the early stage on a early Corvette, lots of white putty snd sanding.  Was thinking of putting it away, but now will continue.

 

FullSizeRender(27).jpg

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Love watching your builds Peter .. But yes ,..not all of your pictures are making it into your posts on the LSR

 

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10 hours ago, chris chabre said:

nice tutorial!!!!thank you. Am I the only one not seeing all of the photos in the thread?

This is very perplexing to me.  I shot the photos with my Samsung phone and transfer and save them on my computer in a google share album that is set to "share" (means can be seen by the public).  I set the picture by clicking on it to enlarge it and then right click it to get the dialog box and click on "copy picture location".  Open the workbench thread back up and right click again and tell it to paste the picture, and it appears on the thread.  I do it the same way every time for every picture.  Why some appear and some don't is a complete mystery to me. Maybe it is just me, but I am not a huge fan of google, for a number of reasons, one of which is that it seems to me that you need to be no older than 15 to understand what all the silly symbols and icons mean......... I guess I am just to old for them.  I guess I need more investigation on this to figure out what I am doing wrong.  Sorry, I am not as technically aware as I should be.

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