mikemodeler Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 Lots of great comments and thoughts expressed here and I don't think anyone is right or wrong for stating what they did. As is our hobby, we will not all agree on things or hold the same views and that is what this hobby should be about. What I view as being a poorly built model and not worthy of a comment may be perfectly acceptable to the next member. As I stated, I have yet to post pics of any of my builds so in a way I shouldn't say someone else's is good or bad, but when I do post mine, I would welcome critique of them as I want to get better. Thanks to all who have taken the time to post and state their position, I have enjoyed reading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobthehobbyguy Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Yes its important to praise beginners work. But it really needs to be meaningful encouragement. I have yet to see anything posted here done so poorly so bad you can't find anything to make a positive comment. For those who want and are capable will improve with positive feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bartrop Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) Slagging everything would be obnoxious, but if you're not a child, why do you need encouragement? This is a hobby that you do for fun. It is it's own encouragement. If you aren't enjoying it, then do something that you do enjoy. Edited September 10, 2019 by Richard Bartrop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) Frankly, as harsh as I may seem, I think just about every model has something worth singling out for a "good...whatever". Unfortunately, most comments that are lazy "good job" or "awesome" attaboys don't accomplish anything other than reinforce the everyone's-a-winner culture that's killing real accomplishment and a healthy understanding of reality. I don't have the time to comment positively on every little well-done aspect of every marginally-built model, but for people who seem to, why not make an effort to praise what's actually WORTH praising? You'll do more real good than showering blanket praise on mediocrity accomplishes. Edited September 10, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 11 hours ago, Xingu said: A lot of views are from people who are not members of the forum and are not allowed to post. Well get with it folks!! Membership is free!!! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said: Not something I've seen a lot here, but on other forums, someone will say that they are upset when too many people post exceptional work because it makes them feel inadequate about their own work. I'm pretty sure the forum rules prevent me from saying what I think of that notion. There are some outright masterpieces on this forum, and it would be dark times indeed if people thought they should stop out of concern for their precious self worth. Yeah, that sounds a lot like "affirmative action" for modelers. No thank you! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Don Wheeler said: Don't you think a modeler deserves some kind of encouragement for posting their work? If they really want some true encouragement, asking respondents to offer tips and techniques on how to improve their builds will go a heck of a lot further than a "nice job" comment. A "nice job" along with a "maybe try a wash on the grille next time" is a lot more useful in this regard. But as we know in our PC world, that's not acceptable without permission......from someone. Steve Edited September 10, 2019 by StevenGuthmiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said: ...But as we know in our PC world, that's not acceptable without permission......from someone. Maybe we need a "safe-space-friendly comments only" or "easily offended" emoji. Heck...with the 4,789 or how-ever-many there are now, they might already be there. ? Edited September 10, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenGuthmiller Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said: Maybe we need a "safe-space-friendly comments only" or "easily offended" emoji. Heck...with the 4,789 or how-ever-many there are now, they might already be there. ? A special section where people can go and pet virtual puppies and color "Rainbow Pony" pictures if they are offended might be helpful. Steve Edited September 10, 2019 by StevenGuthmiller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 ^^^ Best laugh I've had all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89AKurt Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Might as well post this meme that I made, for a Fakebook forum that I help administer. ? It was precipitated by my Stealth Indy Pace Beater being that yellow, that much of an undesirable mongrel, and that much of a hunk of junk, that we were having fun at it's expense. Sometimes I get too serious with projects, getting details correct (rivet counting), not screwing up the paint, throwing microscopic photo-etch at it hoping it will stick and look good. Sometimes you gotta cut loose and throw something together to make up for having OCD. Since I hunted down that project, saw that I had not responded to everyone who left comments! I think if people bother to leave comments, responding is only polite. But that's just me. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Anybody recognize this guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xingu Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 You guys are starting to veer onto the shoulder. Let's pull it back into the driving lane. Excessive use of memes tends to lead a thread in the wrong direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabDriver Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 A solution to this problem might be as simple as posting something along the lines of "are you interested in some constructive criticism?"...but also, if someone's happy enough with a build to post it up here then they're obviously having fun and more power to them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youpey Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) I dont remember if it was this site or a different site. but Many years ago I posted a model and asked to have people criticize the issues. I wanted to put it in a contest and wanted honest opinions on what I could do better. When I post a thread on here is a model I built, I'm just sharing a passion of mine. Maybe it's good or not but I dont post for praise just to share. Sure it's nice if people like it or comment but I know my models are not as good as orher peoples. For the praise of others I typically only respond if something really grabs my attention. an unusual subject or really nice build. Edited September 10, 2019 by youpey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugatti Fan Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Constructive criticism is OK as long as it is done appropriately and one should not be detracted from doing so for fear of political correctness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reegs Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 "So lately I have seen some models posted in the Finished section that were obviously flawed but were given praise as though they could win at a model contest." Could you post a link to one of these flawed models and explain what the flaw is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, Bugatti Fan said: Constructive criticism is OK as long as it is done appropriately and one should not be detracted from doing so for fear of political correctness. Unfortunately, we now live in an environment where any criticism, no matter how politely offered, carefully phrased, and absolutely appropriate, is often flatly rejected, with the "mean" motives of the one doing the criticism blown out of any reasonable proportion. Not too long ago, I had to run a guy off because of it. As I walked by his bay, I noticed something in the bottom of the oil pan he was about to install on an engine he was assembling. I ran my finger through it, and it was gritty. I brought it to his attention. Professionally. He flew off the handle, walked away, and wouldn't discuss it or face me. Later that day, I brought the incident up in the meeting with all the crew and management. Again, he got noisily defensive, refused to discuss it, and walked out of the meeting...after having called me "abusive". Everyone in the meeting had seen I was behaving entirely professionally, and doing my job to try to prevent the astronomical number of comebacks the shop had been getting. So...what do you do with somebody like that in the real world? You fire 'em on the spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyLvr Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) My .02 worth.... Several years ago, forum member Jantrix (Rob Mattis, a great builder - I’ve seen his work) posted this “essay” that I feel really addresses the underlying problem. Here’s a link to his post - it’s definitely worth your time to read it. Edited September 10, 2019 by ToyLvr Spelling correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowboy Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 How many people that build models aren't already aware of the flaws their build has? What's the point of telling them something they already know? Especially in a public manner. Is it really to help the person that built the kit or something else? I seriously doubt that it's "for the hobby". For whatever reason, people are more interested in talking about the negative rather than the positive. This thread proves that. I would bet my kit stash that I could slap a model together (doing my worst), post it, ask for constructive criticism and it would get more comments than some of the best built models. Only because people were invited to criticize. Some people just aren't happy unless they can criticize others and make themselves feel better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace-Garageguy Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Plowboy said: How many people that build models aren't already aware of the flaws their build has? Well, there have been multiple times I've posted work, unaware of flaws that were glaringly obvious once they were on the big screen. I've since started using more light and magnification to try to avoid the worst of it, but as picky as I am about my own work, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of those folks who are much less self-critical are indeed unaware of their shortcomings. But as far as the whole premise of this thread goes, I've spent a lot of time on this site. I just do NOT see, really, anyone who picks at things just to be mean. I rarely see any kind of criticism at all, constructive or otherwise. But I see tons of comments that are the equivalent of "likes" and nothing more. 51 minutes ago, Plowboy said: Some people just aren't happy unless they can criticize others and make themselves feel better. Funny. I've often been accused of this, and via PM, I've been called every vile thing imaginable, things that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with models. What's also funny is that I don't "criticize". I've pointed out technical facts on occasion, like "gassers", for instance...if historical accuracy is the goal...didn't, in general, sit with their noses so high you couldn't see the strip out of the windshield. When I've posted technical corrections to misinformation, in a genuinely positive effort to combat the internet's common mindless proliferation of BS, and when I've posted a little about my background and credentials as a reasonably knowledgeable source, I've also been accused of doing what I do here primarily to feed my poor inadequate ego by making other people feel bad. Frankly, these responses baffle me. I have a love for truth and knowledge, and I'd personally much rather be corrected about something I misunderstand (by someone who actually knows what they're talking about) than blissfully go along in ignorance, thinking I know something I've got entirely wrong. So please...and I usually ask for it in my build threads...if anybody sees I've dome done something wrong, feel free to speak out. There's a good chance I'm already aware of any flaws, I'll usually mention them myself, but there's always the chance that somebody with sharp eyes will catch something I've missed, or catch me in a technical error. TELL ME. Edited September 10, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bartrop Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 And on the subject of delicate sensibilities, why does it matter in the least if someone does get an "attaboy" for a less than perfect model? Ironically, it's usually the people who complain the most about "PC Culture" and being "easily offended" who are the mostly likely to get their noses out of joint when they see someone else getting the attention they thing they deserve. There was another model forum where a constant them was how much this one modeler was being showered with attention, and how much they hated it. Yes, building for competition means building to a standard. It's about doing your best, and even your best may not be good enough. Someone wins, everyone else loses, and if you can't handle that, then you should probably stay home. But of course, this isn't a competition. This is a bunch of people sharing a common interest. When someone builds, it is first and foremost for their enjoyment. It is their model, their time, and it is entirely their decision what to do with it, and how much, or how little effort they want to put into it. Someone brought up golf. For most people, it's a pleasant way to kill an afternoon. Not everyone has the ability, or the desire to do the PGA tour, and that's just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classicgas Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 6 hours ago, Plowboy said: How many people that build models aren't already aware of the flaws their build has? What's the point of telling them something they already know? Especially in a public manner. Is it really to help the person that built the kit or something else? I seriously doubt that it's "for the hobby". For whatever reason, people are more interested in talking about the negative rather than the positive. This thread proves that. I would bet my kit stash that I could slap a model together (doing my worst), post it, ask for constructive criticism and it would get more comments than some of the best built models. Only because people were invited to criticize. Some people just aren't happy unless they can criticize others and make themselves feel better. A good friend posted both his latest builds, and they are very well done, and never realized he had forgotten the ignition coils until it was pointed out. He was quite happy that it was noticed that he overlooked them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemodeler Posted September 10, 2019 Author Share Posted September 10, 2019 6 hours ago, Plowboy said: How many people that build models aren't already aware of the flaws their build has? What's the point of telling them something they already know? Especially in a public manner. Is it really to help the person that built the kit or something else? I seriously doubt that it's "for the hobby". For whatever reason, people are more interested in talking about the negative rather than the positive. This thread proves that. I would bet my kit stash that I could slap a model together (doing my worst), post it, ask for constructive criticism and it would get more comments than some of the best built models. Only because people were invited to criticize. Some people just aren't happy unless they can criticize others and make themselves feel better. I think you would be surprised how many people look at their models and think "Dang, that looks good" and they are not wrong, because to them, it DOES look good. My point is that when someone posts a model with sloppy paint and body work, wheels that are crooked and not all touching the ground and has other flaws, what message is sent when all the comments are "Great job! Looks Great! Nice model!"? I am not insinuating that we need to go into hyper critical mode, but maybe mentioning how to fix those obvious flaws will help them build the next model a little bit better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Geiger Posted September 10, 2019 Share Posted September 10, 2019 Folks, this thread has gone down the slippery slope to the land of poor intent! All we are doing at this point is discouraging people from posting their models. Seriously, I had a PM today from someone saying exactly that! And that's a crying shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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