Offering tips or blind praise- what SHOULD we do as a community?

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, TarheelRick said:

I may PM the builder, not with criticism per se, but more with a question of "Was this your intention?". Most responses, if I do indeed get one, are positive with an "oops" or "thanks for bringing that up."

I have received pointers via PM, and I appreciate them as well.

It's kind of funny because most times I can detect the poster's apprehension by the messages that they leave.

Generally, you can tell that they are a bit nervous about sending a PM to offer a criticism or tip for fear of getting their head bitten off, but I always appreciate them and let them know that I appreciate the tips whether I heed them or not.

 

 

Steve 

[StevenGuthmiller]

4 hours ago, randyc said:

 But if you are critical and I have never seen a finished build from you, then what weight should that carry?   

I will agree with that to a point.

It's nice to know that the people who are offering help are fellow builders that have the skills to back up what they are suggesting that you do.

But on the other hand, I value the real life knowledge that they might be able to share that can be applied to the hobby as well.

So if I receive a tip from someone whom I may have never seen a model built by, but someone who may have owned a 1:1 of the subject at hand, or otherwise just has sound knowledge of it, I'm okay with that too.

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

2 hours ago, misterNNL said:

I vividly remember people asking others if they were going to actually enter the contest. Some would say they were going to walk around the real car show and stop back at the model contest to see what was on the tables before they decided whether or not to enter. If what they saw entered wasn't too good then they would go ahead and enter. I hope that lack of confidence in what you've built doesn't keep builders from posting their creations here.

That sounds to me a little more like eyeing up the competition than a lack of confidence!

 

 

Steve

[StevenGuthmiller]

3 hours ago, BeakDoc said:

In my time as a member on this forum this may be the most fascinating and enlightening thread I’ve read. I’m not what one would label a “joiner” bur I really feel compelled to add my 2 cents to this one. For a couple days I’ve read and pondered all of the comments while culling from my thinky parts what I’d say and how it should be said. Please forgive me if I get long-winded.

As a child I loved this hobby. Alone time building representations of the cars I drooled over.... It was awesome! The builds, however, were hideous, brush painted glue bombs. But, my mom always gushed over them.

Then adulthood happened. The story is similar to many I have read on the forum. Children, jobs, chores, moves, jobs, no budget for frivolity, more chores, occasional tragedy, jobs, blah blah blah. Then about 2 years ago I decided to get back into the hobby I adored as a child.

As I sit back and look at the shelf of finished models from the past 22 months or so, I am astonished at how good they look. Especially when compared to the handful of builds beside them that somehow managed to survive since my pre-teen years. Even when I compare the first model I built when I dove back into the hobby (a Panther Pink ‘71 Hemi ‘Cuda) to some of my more recent builds, the growth in my skill level is glaring. I truly feel that I have this forum and the outstanding modelers that comprises it to thank for much of that growth. There are folks on here who can outbuild me in their sleep and folks on here that have forgotten more about cars in general than I’ll ever know, but, I dare say that there is no one on the forum from whom I cannot learn something. I won’t lie, “great build”, “nice job” and so forth are great for the confidence, or, at least, better than crickets chirping. Where I really thrive, however, is when I read constructive criticism, tips, pointers and especially questions that provoke meaningful dialogue on a specific part of a build or the basic processes or ideas that went into a particular model. I was an active duty Marine for 5 years and have spent the better part of my adult life working in professional kitchens. There is nothing anyone is going to say that’ll have me run crying to my kit stash closet in tears. I try to build each model better than the last and, largely, through this forum I feel like I have accomplished that. 

I owe each and every one of you a debt of gratitude for the inspiration your builds provide, for the guidance your tips, tricks and advice provides and for just being an all around good community of folks who love the hobby and all manner of automobiles.

Wow!

Now that is without question the best response to this topic that I have read so far!

Thank you Chris!

Nice job!!

 

 

Steve

[misterNNL]

1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

That sounds to me a little more like eyeing up the competition than a lack of confidence!

 

 

Steve

You could be correct about that,I never thought of it from that point of view.

[Ace-Garageguy]

On 9/9/2019 at 9:29 AM, Jantrix said:

 Posting a model, getting 300 views and 2 comments is a real soul crusher...

Must have something to do with the resilience of the soul in question.

I used to get lotsa comments on my build threads. Couple of days back, I posted a heavy update. Almost 400 views. 2 comments.

Somehow, I'm surviving.

[landman]

Plenty of interesting points of view here. I post mainly to share as no one other than me looks at them here. I noticed different members look at different types of work i.e. trucks, cars, racers dios etc. They look at what they like. Most if not all of us build only what turns us on. I often ask for opinions and I do get them. I don't always do what is suggested. Sometimes I do. I only comment if something turns my crank. And I agree that wholesale kudos don't help anything. The same with 45 photos of the same thing. But this is a great place to be, share and enjoy. There is some of everything, something for everyone and members with a wide range of tastes, people skills, modelling skills and expectations. So build, enjoy, post, enjoy other's work and what sounds like constructive criticism to one member may sound  like an outrageous personal attack to another. Does this make any sense?

[StevenGuthmiller]

We have to remember that subject matter can have a lot to do with the number of views and comments that a thread might receive as well.

If it's something that is not of a lot of interest to many people, it might get a lot of quick views, but not a lot of comments.

 

If your project is a common kit that has been seen a thousand times in 30 different colors, it's probably not going to get as much attention as something unusual.

 

 

 

Steve

Edited September 11, 2019 by StevenGuthmiller

[Richard Bartrop]

When I do comment, it usually because the subject matter is something I like, and would like to see more of.

[Ace-Garageguy]

There's also a fair bit of cliquishness, behind-the-scenes gossip, and intentional blackballing going on. Speak out against or disagree with one of the cool kids, all his buddies will cut you dead. And don't anybody bother to deny it.

Ignoring noobs is frequent too...which is why I often go out of my way to find something positive to say about low-count posters' builds.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[misterNNL]

I have to agree. I tend to look at the stuff I'm interested in and add comments where I think they are appropriate.

[my66s55]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

There's also a fair bit of cliquishness, behind-the-scenes gossip, and intentional blackballing going on. Speak out against or disagree with one of the cool kids, all his buddies will cut you dead. And don't anybody bother to deny it.

Ignoring noobs is frequent too...which is why I often go out of my way to find something positive to say about low-count posters' builds.

So why does this bother you bill? 

[Ace-Garageguy]

6 minutes ago, my66s55 said:

So why does this bother you bill? 

Why does what "bother" me, specifically?

[StevenGuthmiller]

15 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

There's also a fair bit of cliquishness, behind-the-scenes gossip, and intentional blackballing going on. Speak out against or disagree with one of the cool kids, all his buddies will cut you dead. And don't anybody bother to deny it.

It's undeniable.

I know that this is the case.

 

There are people that ignore me, and people that I avoid as well because of disagreements in the past, and I'm sure that they tend to take their buddies with them.

It's sad because I have absolutely no animosity towards anyone on the board.

Occasionally there are disagreements, and I guess some people hold grudges forever.

The only reason that I don't interact with some people anymore is because I don't want to stir up their animosity.

So I just stay away.

 

 

Steve

[my66s55]

7 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Why does what "bother" me, specifically?

So, you answer a question with a question.It's not that difficult an answer Bill. Only if you make it so.

[StevenGuthmiller]

24 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Ignoring noobs is frequent too...which is why I often go out of my way to find something positive to say about low-count posters' builds.

I try as well to avoid ignoring any new members.

If they are posting work that I am interested, I treat them as I would any long term member.

 

We were all noobs at one point.

 

 

Steve

[Ace-Garageguy]

3 minutes ago, my66s55 said:

So, you answer a question with a question.It's not that difficult an answer Bill. Only if you make it so.

I made several points. You failed to single out which one "bothers" me. So I guess I'll have to assume you're asking why they ALL bother me.

QUOTING MYSELF:

"There's also a fair bit of cliquishness, behind-the-scenes gossip, and intentional blackballing going on. Speak out against or disagree with one of the cool kids, all his buddies will cut you dead.

Ignoring noobs is frequent too."

ANSWERS:

1) I think people who have to be part of an in-crowd and gang-up on others to have any sense of self-worth are petty and pathetic. That goes for gossips too. And people who hold grudges over imagined slights. Yeah, pathetic.

2) Ignoring new, low-count posters, who often post better work than many old regulars, is just more stupid, cliquish rudeness.

[my66s55]

Nice trey Bill. Just answer my question.

3 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I made several points. You failed to single out which one "bothers" me. So I guess I'll have to assume you're asking why they ALL bother me.

QUOTING MYSELF:

"There's also a fair bit of cliquishness, behind-the-scenes gossip, and intentional blackballing going on. Speak out against or disagree with one of the cool kids, all his buddies will cut you dead.

Ignoring noobs is frequent too."

ANSWERS:

1) I think people who have to be part of an in-crowd and gang-up on others to have any sense of self-worth are petty and pathetic. That goes for gossips too. And people who hold grudges over imagined slights. Yeah, pathetic.

2) Ignoring new, low-count posters, who often post better work than many old regulars, is just more stupid, cliquish rudeness.

Nice try Bill. Just answer my question. Your a bright guy? just figure it out

 

[Ace-Garageguy]

9 minutes ago, my66s55 said:

 

Nice try Bill. Just answer my question. Your a bright guy? just figure it out

 

You make no sense. Don't try to bait me into something. I posted my responses in English. You like to think you're a bright guy. So read. And it's "you're".

Edited September 11, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[my66s55]

19 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I try as well to avoid ignoring any new members.

If they are posting work that I am interested, I treat them as I would any long term member.

 

We were all noobs at one point.

 

 

Steve

So, Steve , do you offer them encouragement and advice? I think I already know the answer to that. 

[my66s55]

3 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

You make no sense. Don't try to bait me into something. I post in English. You like to think you're a bright guy. Figure it out. And it's "you're".

Come on Bill. Don't Play games. It's plain English. I have a hard time believing your inability To comprehend that.

[Ace-Garageguy]

5 minutes ago, my66s55 said:

Come on Bill. Don't Play games. It's plain English. I have a hard time believing your inability To comprehend that.

By all means, have a hard time believing anything you like.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Ace-Garageguy

[my66s55]

2 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

By all means, have a hard time believing anything you like.

Come on Bill. You make no sense. You been nipping?

[Richard Bartrop]

16 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

There's also a fair bit of cliquishness, behind-the-scenes gossip, and intentional blackballing going on. Speak out against or disagree with one of the cool kids, all his buddies will cut you dead. And don't anybody bother to deny it.

Cliquishness is human nature.  Some people annoy us less than others, and of course, those are the people we naturally want to hang out with.  Whether they're a necessary refuge or an unfair exclusion usually depends on what side you're on.

Is there cliquishness?  Probably.  Snobbishness?  There seems to be a lot of talk from some circles about who is or isn't a "real modeler",  and all too often, the defining characteristic of "real modeling" seems to involve your ability to rack up the high score on your credit card balance.  Do some people take offence a little too easily?  Maybe some, but it does seem the ones complain the most about other people's sensitivity are the ones who howl the loudest when they get a little of that blunt talk directed their way.  "I'm a fighter, but you're a snowflake" I believe is the standard line of baloney to justify it.

We live in an imperfect world full of imperfect people, and sometimes you just have to deal with it.   I will say that some of the members who have not learned to play well with others can also be invaluable sources of information.

[my66s55]

Well said,Richard. I'm going to expound here and tell you a little about my outlook on life. When I was 16, I coined a phrase that became my motto for my life. It's quit simple and easy for most to understand.  It says, "it's not important what unimportant people think." If someone says or does something that has no direct influence or effect on your life, it's of not matter to your well being. This post is full of unimportant complaints. Wake up, grow up. people have different values, attitudes and beliefs from yours. Does that make them wrong?