Kit Manufacturers Quality Control Or Lack Of It

[VW93]

I need to vent!

Started a build on the AMT 40 Willys coupe from the last retro release. I've posted pics in my build thread of what I've encountered. 

Along with excessive flash on virtually every part (the chrome tree was OK ), I found that the tires fall off the rims, the rims fall off the axles and the axle does not even go into one rim.

Now I've discovered the rear window was molded in an oblong shape. Just glad it wasn't a windshield that would need to fit a frame such as in the AMT 34 Ford PU.

You have to wonder if the Chinese send a test shot to the states to be looked over or does R2 leave it to the Chinese?

I hope they really look over their newly tooled 67 Impala 4 door, 70 Camaro and Vega Pro Stock.
I realize the tooling for the Willys dates back to around 1963 but they shouldn't be selling kits without fixing the problems. 

Rant over

 

[Mark]

Those windows were retooled at some point, probably in the Eighties.  They aren't as good as the original ones.  Fortunately all of the windows in the 1:1 are flat glass.  Replacements made from clear styrene or acrylic plastic will be better optically anyway.

[espo]

A possibility on your rear window issue. I haven't looked at the most resent reissue so my knowledge on this isn't 100 %. I am pretty familiar with the original issues of this kit and at one time you would have the ability to build it as a coupe or a pick-up. The way you describe the rear window it sounds like it may have been meant for the coupe body. Maybe cut some clear plastic to creat your own rear window. I realize that the shape of the original window placed it so that the "window" part stuck into the opening from the inside so that the surface would end at the window molding. A home made window might look a little sunken or remove some of the inside surface of the cab to give a more desirable window depth. I have to agree with you on the condition of this kits front end. They should really tune-up the molds for this as it looks to me to be very worn or not done properly.     

[440 Dakota]

just like a lot of Round 2 stuff, just reissue after reissue of worn out tooling or tooling of kits that never fit together very well in the first place

[drummerdad]

I have the 1/16 scale firebird from MPC, and just discovered the body is warped. I also have a 1/16 lamborghini countach that is so warped I dont think Ill ever get the door to close. Its an older kit, so I half expected it, but the firebird is new. 

[Erik Smith]

[SfanGoch]

 

[martinfan5]

3 hours ago, VW93 said:

 

 

You have to wonder if the Chinese send a test shot to the states to be looked over or does R2 leave it to the Chinese?

 

 

It wouldnt matter what country the tooling took place in, it would still be the same, you are complaining about tooling that is about 44 years old,   tooling wears out over time, the only way to stop all the flash is the to either repair( if thats possible) or replace the tooling.    The "Chinese"  can send all the test shots they want back to R2, and its not gonna change a thing.

So if you really want to place some blame, place it on the old tooling and R2 not wanting to replace it.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by martinfan5

[Roadrunner]

This is somewhat of an annoyance for me as well, 60 year old tooling that's used endlessly. As a dedicated aircraft and armor modeler that also happens to dabble in car models, I'm accustomed to new aircraft and armor kits being released almost monthly, with fit, finish and detailing that's just wonderful, but for many of the car models I desire, they're just the same old poor fitting, poorly engineered, incorrectly detailed stuff that they just keep churning out over and over again. I suppose it's just what we're stuck with as car modelers and despite the fact that I don't like it, I do accept it.

[1972coronet]

Just my opinion here : isn't paying $15 - $25 for a kit of any vintage better than buying / bidding  for the same kit at collectors' prices ?

I'll take the flash , warts , etc. , over plopping-down a down payment for a lawnmower shack ( or , as we call them in California , "Studio Apartment" ) . 

[Luc Janssens]

37 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

Just my opinion here : isn't paying $15 - $25 for a kit of any vintage better than buying / bidding  for the same kit at collectors' prices ?

I'll take the flash , warts , etc. , over plopping-down a down payment for a lawnmower shack ( or , as we call them in California , "Studio Apartment" ) . 

Sure there are kits that fall in that category,  but many others can still be bought for pennies on the dollar, it kinda seems that the recycling of common old kits mostly finances the new sci-fi releases,, and too a much much lesser extend the restoration/restomod of old automotive tools or the creation of new ones.

Anyway to me the credibility of the company hit rock bottom with the release of the '69 Yenko Camaro.

But maybe there's a ray of sunshine up on the horizon, with the eminent release of the Supernatural Impala, the rumored wagon and muscle car, if they can get the bug out of their system.

 

 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Luc Janssens

[1972coronet]

52 minutes ago, Luc Janssens said:

Sure there are kits that fall in that category,  but many others can still be bought for pennies on the dollar, it kinda seems that the recycling of common old kits mostly finances the new sci-fi releases,, and too a much much lesser extend the restoration/restomod of old automotive tools or the creation of new ones.

Anyway to me the credibility of the company hit rock bottom with the release of the '69 Yenko Camaro.

But maybe there's a ray of sunshine up on the horizon, with the eminent release of the Supernatural Impala, the rumored wagon and muscle car, if they can get the bug out of their system.

 

 

I agree regarding the ad infinitum , ad nauseam releases and reissues --- pennies-on-the-dollar , indeed . 

And , certainly , from a business-point , so long as the aforementioned reissues fund new or restored kits' developments , then more power to Round2 ( et alia ) .

As far as that Yenko Camaro from Round2 : I've never paid it any attention , as the Revell 1969 Camaro kits (at least two iterations ; the c.1990 Baldwin-Motion Phase III and the Z/28 , and ; the newer COPO and SS/RS - Pace Car Convertible ) is a vastly superior kit . I didn't realise that the Round2 1969 Yenko was a new tool ---- it , by all prima fascia accounts , looks exactly like its ancient MPC annual , ad seq. , moulds .

I can't wait for the Supernatural 1967 Impala "Sport Sedan" . While I'm not a fan of four door hardtops (a few exceptions , of course) , I'm pleased as pie about a 4 door G.M. B-Body kit ! I'll just have to make it a sedan , and put not-ugly wheels on it .

Station wagon... That one's got me on pins & needles ! The possibilities are endless ! 

The Pro Stock Vega , in Grumpy's livery , is going to be a huge hit . No more moulded-on single exhaust ! Be sweet if a relatively-stock chassis (tubbed rear is just fine) is under the Vega kits , as I'd love to build a Motion Super Vega with an LT-1 under the tilt-forward L-88 bonnet that's in the MPC 1974 annual that I have .

[Richard Bartrop]

I like being able to get old favourites at my LHS, and I'm even okay with having to trim off some flash, and fill in the occaissional sink mark, but when I'm asked to pay a premium price for something that looks for a bar of soap, there is a limit to my gratitude.  Instead of fancy boxes, or useless knicknacks, how about putting some of that money into freshening up the moulds?

[64Comet404]

I don't know if anyone else is seeing this on their screen, but I was scrolling down the thread, and agreeing with some of the posted comments. Yes, these tools have plenty of flash, and you can definitely find earlier issues of some of these kits at reasonable prices. Anyway, I get down to the end of the comments, and what is the advertisement showing...A PLASMA CUTTER!!!

(Just what every builder of reissued car models needs in their workshop!)

You know that there is consensus when even the 'bots are agreeing with you on the subject!?

[VW93]

17 hours ago, Richard Bartrop said:

I like being able to get old favourites at my LHS, and I'm even okay with having to trim off some flash, and fill in the occaissional sink mark, but when I'm asked to pay a premium price for something that looks for a bar of soap, there is a limit to my gratitude.  Instead of fancy boxes, or useless knicknacks, how about putting some of that money into freshening up the moulds?

[SfanGoch]

The whooppee cushion by itself justifies buying that kit.

[Motor City]

Quality control issues are nothing new.  Think of all the promos you've seen with steering wheels mounted cockeyed and poor chrome plating.  It's been the same way with kits.  I have an MPC '68 Impala SS convertible kit that was shipped with a defective windshield.  It has a burnt blob in the middle which can't be polished out since it's sandwiched between the inside and outside.  Of course, the clear bubble top is perfect!  Many chrome trees have important parts attached inappropriately to the sprue, which damages the part's appearance when cutting it off of the sprue to use it.  I'd rather deal with a little flash than a warped body.      

[Tom Geiger]

Instead of complaining that there are 60 year old molds, we should be grateful that against all odds and corporate changes this tooling still exists! 

just think about how few kits we’d have to choose from today if all the legacy companies had efficiently scrapped tooling when they were done with it!

[keyser]

This Willys came out as 1/2 of a double kit with the custom 32 Tudor in 1963. One other rebox as a "Show and Go" in 64-65 I guess. 

http://amtmodelkits.us/amt_show_n_go_40_willys_32_ford_double_kit_2332_1_25_scale_model_car_swap_meet_4.htm I've not seen this issue, just the gold issue. 32 removed and pickup added in 68-69. Never fit well when new, but it and Rev SWC were it for ages. 

[STYRENE-SURFER]

All good points, yes if these moulds where scrapped we would have nothing to look forward to

and be paying those exorbitant eBay prices for vintage kits.

I have seen some die casting production and spent years in prototype & production machine shops.

Even time in QC. A thankless job!!!

Before that I was in photo advertising for a large corporate dept. store (have a fairly decent understanding 

of marketing). 

Yet I still wonder why those old dies can't be brought up to snuff. ( I'm showing my lack of knowledge about

the process here). Someone please help me understand this.

from a marketing point of view, I think they are doing the best they can. When I was younger couldn't wait

to get the latest kit that looked like those cars seen on TV, magazines and in movies. 

Car culture is not what it was in the 60's 70's.  Yah, somewhat OT  and now living as a somewhat 

grumpier old version of my teenage self.?

 

 

[keyser]

Isn't flashing also due in part to low injection pressures? Oozes thru seams? IIRC that was issue in past with older molds too. Willys reissued a bunch in older days, ez to find one with better shape. Truck really never fit, I had a Street Rods issue and it went back in the box. Still in bag somewhere. Meh. 

Funny thing, the 53 F100 and the 49 Merc have been issued far more than this, and have survived well. 

Edited March 3, 2020 by keyser

[Metalbeast]

It's not just that, but sometimes the kit can be molded well enough but include the wrong parts. I just got a couple of Ford pickup kits not too long ago, a Moebius '65 F100 and an AMT Ford Lightning. The Lighting came with the Flareside tailgate. Obviously too narrow for the Styleside bed on the Lightning. I'm wondering which EFI setup that new release of the Sonoma has now. 

[Metalbeast]

6 minutes ago, keyser said:

Isn't flashing also due in part to low injection pressures? Oozes thru seams? IIRC that was issue in past with older molds too. Willys reissued a bunch in older days, ez to find one with better shape. Truck really never fit, I had a Street Rods issue and it went back in the box. Still in bag somewhere. Meh. 

I don't see how it could be low injection pressure. But I could certainly see it happening with low clamping pressure. I used to work at an injection molding facility. But I will admit it has been a while and my memory may not be too clear. There's normally no reason to turn down the injection speed unless it was mistaeknly set too low to begin with. Low clamping pressure would lead to a gap in the mold surfaces that wouldn't normally be there. Well, it would always be there but the gap would be wider due to the loss of clamping pressure. I've seen it where the material would sloosh out of the mold halves like frosting being squeezed from a piping bag! We would often turn up the injection speed to clear a plugged head in the press but once things were flowing the way they were supposed to be it was set back to the proper setting. But, people are people and mistakes do happen. 

[STYRENE-SURFER]

More pressure won't help molds that have been constantly used,beaten,and moved from place to place.

They are heavy, difficult to maintain and close toleranced . And then you have all those ejector pins to

keep working. Not the simple process from what I've seen.

[STYRENE-SURFER]

18 minutes ago, Metalbeast said:

I don't see how it could be low injection pressure. But I could certainly see it happening with low clamping pressure. I used to work at an injection molding facility. But I will admit it has been a while and my memory may not be too clear. There's normally no reason to turn down the injection speed unless it was mistaeknly set too low to begin with. Low clamping pressure would lead to a gap in the mold surfaces that wouldn't normally be there. Well, it would always be there but the gap would be wider due to the loss of clamping pressure. I've seen it where the material would sloosh out of the mold halves like frosting being squeezed from a piping bag! We would often turn up the injection speed to clear a plugged head in the press but once things were flowing the way they were supposed to be it was set back to the proper setting. But, people are people and mistakes do happen. 

Kevin, what type of injection molding did you do?

did you ever see any kind of repairs done on the dies?

honestly I never saw any, other than replacement of ejector pins.

My experience is only aluminum castings and that was not my department 

but did have to pay some attention as I was machining those pieces later.

So there quality trickled down.