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Kit Manufacturers Quality Control Or Lack Of It

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3 minutes ago, STYRENE-SURFER said:

Kevin, what type of injection molding did you do?

did you ever see any kind of repairs done on the dies?

honestly I never saw any, other than replacement of ejector pins.

My experience is only aluminum castings and that was not my department 

but did have to pay some attention as I was machining those pieces later.

So there quality trickled down.

 

I've worked around rubber and plastic, in some cases rubber/plastic/or silicone with an insert. For example, a rubber donut isolator with a steel tube molded into it. I'm more familiar with rubber as I worked in that side of the industry longer. I've only ever seen the repairs to the molds after the fact. Never saw it while it was being done. Unless you were the diesetter you pretty much weren't allowed into the machine shop. Unless he was OK with you being in there or he was training you. Even the tools for the parts without inserts would wear, but if the operator wasn't paying attention and closed a mold on an insert that wasn't centered. You wouldn't think a solid steel die like that could be damaged, but it certainly can. Sometimes quite severely!

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If this site is any sort of barometer, there's obviously a market for new, state of the art stuff, but aside from a new Revell kit here or there, many of which don't really interest me anyway, all I see is the antiquated stuff, and that's rather sad.

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Car modeling, compared to armor/aircraft/sci-fi, is a niche catering to a comparatively small segment of the hobby. Unlike a company releasing every single variant of, let's say, a Pz III Ausf. M (including versions built at a specific time on a specific work shift at the Daimler Benz plant), you ain't gonna see that kind of commitment from the likes of Round2RevellWhatever.

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20 minutes ago, Metalbeast said:

You wouldn't think a solid steel die like that could be damaged, but it certainly can. Sometimes quite severely!

For sure, and just think about storage for who knows how long, shipping to China and yada yada.

I know you get it.    It's a giant investment really.   Just wish they could correct it

but...  edit.

I'm fairly confident now that it would take brand new die's, after a conversation I just

had w/a family member in a kinda sorta close to it trade.? He quantifys by the millionth of an inch tho.

 

It is just a plastic toy after all ! HaHa  better to be glad we got what we got.

And the best support group around. (Grumble in the back ground).?

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11 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

The whooppee cushion by itself justifies buying that kit.

The whooppee cushion was pretty neat..

6 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

Instead of complaining that there are 60 year old molds, we should be grateful that against all odds and corporate changes this tooling still exists! 

just think about how few kits we’d have to choose from today if all the legacy companies had efficiently scrapped tooling when they were done with it!

I agree with Tom, it’s good to see these. Kits again. I believe they are doing the best they can...

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7 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

Instead of complaining that there are 60 year old molds, we should be grateful that against all odds and corporate changes this tooling still exists! 

just think about how few kits we’d have to choose from today if all the legacy companies had efficiently scrapped tooling when they were done with it!

There's tooling that is worth to be saved and with TLC and some updating will go on and one, but...there are others that really need to be scrapped to make room for all new tools....like the '67 and '70-'72 GTO's, and most of the Lindberg odd ball stuff, that went from production straight to Ollies, and then landfill.

I know that nostalgia is a powerful thing, but think one baby boomer trying to build a "nostalgia kit"  like he did when growing up, and despite the great box art and colorful decals, it still fits like crapola, he must be thinking, wow this hobby really progressed in these past 40 years, NOT!

Just my 2 cents

Edited by Luc Janssens

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If I built  kits for the nostalgia, they'd be loaded with firecrackers. :D

I'd probably get hauled off by the cops if I did that now. Some silly thing about them being illegal here. Killjoys.

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People wonder why some manufacturers kits are better than others. Quality control lives at some companies and not others.  I remember touring the Tamiya plant in Japan and was surprised to see a small room of people grabbing random kits off the assembly line and putting them together.  No paint or anything else just gluing all the parts together.  When asked I was told that any one of them could shut the line down if something didn't fit.  At that moment, I came to understand why their kits cost more!  You get what you pay for. 

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For me trying to assemble these overproduced Round2 reissues takes the enjoyment out of building models, so for a while now I just don't purchase them. I feel it's good money after bad.  I'm also hoping that the new owners of Revell will step up their game a little and get closer to the quality/accuracy bullseye . 

Glen

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9 hours ago, SfanGoch said:

If I built  kits for the nostalgia, they'd be loaded with firecrackers. :D

I'd probably get hauled off by the cops if I did that now. Some silly thing about them being illegal here. Killjoys.

Haha. Yes, and smoke bombs. The reservations here still sell some pretty good mini boom sticks - some that would send an AMT kit into orbit and about a million pieces.

 

If anybody really wants to have fun, just grab some of the AMT MPC reissues of the kits they made in the 70s - like the Gremlin or Pinto models - not only can you enjoy some of the flash, pin and sink marks, etc, of the "new" kits using old tooling - you can also revel in the general poor engineering of the kits.

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The tired old 1/25th scale Revell E type Jaguar that has been re re re re issued many times since the sixties is a good example of an offering from clapped out tooling. But just recently  Revell Germany have issued a completely new retooled kit of this iconic car in 1/24th scale that will probably be very good, and much less expensive than if Tamiya did it.

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Considering what the small non-scaled seemingly 1/32 scale Legos are going for, and getting purchased, I'm astounded kits get passed by. The really nice snap Viper, Diablo, etc. RM did decades ago looked awesome, and weren't really too bad to assemble. Make the snap posts a bit "looser" and I think molded in colors and slightly more simplified would still work. 

The Legos look awful. Even the $300 GT3 RS and Chiron look like toys, and they're a LOT of work. The small ones make Palmers look like bastions of fidelity. The Mini Cooper doesn't even look right. :(


 

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Mistake no mistake, Round 2 has released some things that are worth the price.  Those ones from AMT and Lindberg's "golden age" of the late 90's are especially nice, and have only been abused for about 20 years, as opposed to the nearly 60 of some of the other stuff.

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1 hour ago, keyser said:

Considering what the small non-scaled seemingly 1/32 scale Legos are going for, and getting purchased, I'm astounded kits get passed by. The really nice snap Viper, Diablo, etc. RM did decades ago looked awesome, and weren't really too bad to assemble. Make the snap posts a bit "looser" and I think molded in colors and slightly more simplified would still work. 

The Legos look awful. Even the $300 GT3 RS and Chiron look like toys, and they're a LOT of work. The small ones make Palmers look like bastions of fidelity. The Mini Cooper doesn't even look right. :(

Can't compare plastic model kits with Legos. The only thing they have in common is that they are both injection modled plastic.  Lego's target audience is totally different than model kits.  Lego models are not about accuracy or fidelity - it is about creating objects that look somewhat like the modeled subjects, but made from plastic blocks.  And Lego aficionados have deep pockets.

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On 3/2/2020 at 9:24 PM, SfanGoch said:

Unlike a company releasing every single variant of, let's say, a Pz III Ausf. M (including versions built at a specific time on a specific work shift at the Daimler Benz plant)

This sounds interesting - is that a specific example of a real thing that happened?  Panzer tanks were slightly different depending on which workers made them?

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That is a bit of hyperbolic humor among armor modelers commenting on the mind-numbingly absurd number of sub-sub-sub variants of AFVs, especially German Tiger I tanks, released by kit makers; although,  those same manufacturers are doing their best to see this joke becomes reality.

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8 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

That is a bit of hyperbolic humor among armor modelers commenting on the mind-numbingly absurd number of sub-sub-sub variants of AFVs, especially German Tiger I tanks, released by kit makers; although,  those same manufacturers are doing their best to see this joke becomes reality.

Ahhh...I figured that might be a joke but it was close enough to what I’ve seen on someone of the armor modeller sites that I couldn’t tell if it was or wasn’t ?

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Yes, German Armor can get that sub-type specific some times. Russian T-34 tamks are also molded in a large variety, depending on which factory made the turret, and which roadwheels were used. Note too, that even the American M-4 Sherman, comes in both Cast and Welded Hull versions, and were built with at least 4 types of main guns. (75 mm, 76mm, 105mm and the British 17 pounder)

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2 minutes ago, alexis said:

Yes, German Armor can get that sub-type specific some times. Russian T-34 tamks are also molded in a large variety, depending on which factory made the turret, and which roadwheels were used. Note too, that even the American M-4 Sherman, comes in both Cast and Welded Hull versions, and were built with at least 4 types of main guns. (75 mm, 76mm, 105mm and the British 17 pounder)

Ah, sort of like those automotive 3-in-1 kits. Just sell one kit of the tank, and include all the parts in it to model the variations. :D

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If only it were that simple. (sigh)....

Tanks are not that simple, although there is at least one 5'n'1 M1 Abrams tank kit.

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Nah. Dragon, for example, will milk a particular base vehicle for every possible separately released variant which could be squeezed out of it. At 60+ bucks per kit, that translates into serious mazuma.

 

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1 hour ago, SfanGoch said:

That is a bit of hyperbolic humor among armor modelers commenting on the mind-numbingly absurd number of sub-sub-sub variants of AFVs, especially German Tiger I tanks, released by kit makers; although,  those same manufacturers are doing their best to see this joke becomes reality.

I can certainly relate, as I have several Tiger I's here myself (and will no doubt eventually buy even more).

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18 minutes ago, SfanGoch said:

Nah. Dragon, for example, will milk a particular base vehicle for every possible separately released variant which could be squeezed out of it. At 60+ bucks per kit, that translates into serious mazuma.

 

Moebius is doing the same with for example their Ford P/U's, I call it smart business.

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On 3/3/2020 at 9:10 AM, Glen Powers said:

For me trying to assemble these overproduced Round2 reissues takes the enjoyment out of building models, so for a while now I just don't purchase them. I feel it's good money after bad.  I'm also hoping that the new owners of Revell will step up their game a little and get closer to the quality/accuracy bullseye . 

Glen

Speaking of Revell quality...

I bought their 62 Impala about 4 or 5 years ago. The body was so badly warped that when placed on a flat surface, one fender was about an inch (not a 1/25 inch either) higher than the other one. Their customer service, or lack of, wasn't helpful. They wanted me to ship them the entire kit on my dime, so they could evaluate whether or not it warranted a replacement body shell. I emailed pics, that should have been enough proof. 

I ended up parting it out and tossing the body.

Edited by Rbray47

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Anything from rnd2 in my opinion is mostly junk. I do purchase a kit or 2 now and then but I am highly selective. But someone is buying this BLAH_BLAH_BLAH_BLAH or they would not keep re re re re reissuing it. Money talks.

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