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Some Bare Metal questions


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I did my first attempt at using Bare Metal foil on this 66 Impala. I did not paint the Impala; the color is the color that was molded into the original plastic.I was pleased with the results and will be working on another kit I'd like to use Bare Metal foil on. This new kit will be painted.

I've got a few questions I could use some help with:

Question 1: Is this the right (or best) sequence for applying paint and the foil? My understanding is that clear coat over the foil can cause the finish to dull a bit.

  1. Primer coats
  2. Mist coats of body color
  3. Wet coats of body color
  4. Painting any body details that I will be doing by hand
  5. Clear coat
  6. Apply foil

 

Question 2: When doing the Impala, I noticed some "adhesive residue" from the foil on the body when I removed it from the unneeded areas. Since the Impala was not painted, I was able to use some lighter fluid to remove the adhesive residue.

  • Is this residue normal, or am I doing something wrong (maybe burnishing the initial pieces of foil too strongly with my Q-Tip and fingers)?
  • If it is normal, then how should I remove the residue without destroying the paint/clear coat on the model?

 

Thanks for the help!

Bart

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P1010153a.JPG.8745ef2db346c02a468e53f55217d204.JPG

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Looks great. BMF is the last thing after all of the painting, and clearing, polishing, etc. are performed. I used to use Qtips for burnishing, but now I use the pointed swabs that Tamiya makes. Easier to get into crevices, and no fuzzy fibers. 
 

The residue is normal. I avoid using a Qtip for this as well, as it seems to add fuzz, and could possibly scratch some clears. What I do is, take a small piece of soft flannel, and add a drop of Goo Gone, to remove the residue. I never encountered any problems doing it this way yet. 

Edited by Brutalform
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In addition to the tips from Brutalform I would add something to try. Since the edge of any body trim can get very vague even before you have applied any primer or color paint. Just as you deepen door and trunk parting lines you might try to lightly outline any chrome trim that you will be foiling later. This will give you an edge that can easily be seen when it comes time to cut the foil. Another aid would be to lay a lightly applied length of masking tape to the body where you don't want the foil to stick. After cutting the foil this will also make it much easier to remove the foil from the body portion and maybe even eliminate the residue you mentioned. The pointed cotton tips that Brutalform mentioned have been the greatest aid for myself and of course I recommend that also. Look forward to seeing your builds.   

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All very good advice so far.

I use a little bit of WD-40 on a Q-tip to remove the adhesive residue.

But regardless of what you use, save that operation until you have finished foiling.

Any oils left on the body will prevent the foil from sticking.

 

I also agree with Tom.

Q-tips can leave a lot of "fuzzers" stuck on the edges of the foil.

Better off using pointed conical swabs, tooth picks, etc, for application, and then soft cotton cloths for burnishing.

 

 

 

Steve

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18 hours ago, bh1701 said:

 

4. Painting any body details that I will be doing by hand

5. Clear coat

 

I'd reverse these. I tried it in this order a few years ago on a couple models and it didn't work out for me. In one case, the wet clearcoat made the painted details bleed and run. In the other, the clearcoat has yellowed over the years, turning all the window trim into gold, which was NOT what I was going for. :lol: (The paint is green so the yellowing doesn't really show on it, but oh that "chrome.") 

You also don't mention polishing. You'd want to do this before foil, too, and don't forget to polish the trim that will BE foiled. I've seen many models with fine finishes and foil where it looks like the foil was applied to a golf ball. 

The "foil under paint" trick is also very handy to know. Run a seach for it here--we've had a couple threads on the technique. (Or perhaps some helpful modeler will post a link.) 

I use rubbing alcohol to remove foil adhesive residue, but ONLY on enamel paint, as it will remove hobby lacquers and acrylics. I'm gonna have to experiment with Goo Gone and WD-40--they might work better. 

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3 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I'd reverse these. I tried it in this order a few years ago on a couple models and it didn't work out for me. In one case, the wet clearcoat made the painted details bleed and run.

You have to be certain that whatever paint that you are using for detailing is compatible with your clear coat.

The paint used for the badging on my most recent project was Duplicolor automotive lacquers sprayed into a cup and applied with a brush.

There are a lot of paints that I could have used, but I knew that the Duplicolor paints would not bleed under the clear that I was using.

 

That being said, I only clear coat over foil applied over small badging and scripts.

The rest of the foil goes on after all of the paint work and polishing s finished.

 

image.jpeg.a3f2daae5199ec8fa927f7638acbb245.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

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Any details that have to be painted by hand should be done after the clear coat. Clear coats can and will cause some paints to run. Especially if it's a chrome paint.

David's suggestion of scribing around trim that will get BMF is a good one. I've been doing that for a few years. It gives the trim a separation look as well as a definitive line to go by.

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8 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

Any details that have to be painted by hand should be done after the clear coat. Clear coats can and will cause some paints to run.

^_^

As I stated above, you can certainly paint details before clear as long as you are using a compatible paint.

The black in the 442 emblems, and the red in the Olds badge on the trunk lid in the above example, were painted before clear coats.

 

It is often easier to do this type of detailing before any more detail is obscured by clear coats.

 

 

 

Steve

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Thanks, everyone! A lot of good ideas here. I'll definitely give some of these a try with the kit I am working on (a 1963 Ford Galaxie 500XL)

I had seen the posts that described foiling the scripts before painting. Not ready to try that yet - but I'll get there someday when I feel brave enough. I usually paint the script and other very small details and have gotten good results - my hands are still steady, my toothpicks are sharp, my patience is good, and my magnifier lamp is extremely helpful.

Bart

Edited by bh1701
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1 hour ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

^_^

As I stated above, you can certainly paint details before clear as long as you are using a compatible paint.

The black in the 442 emblems, and the red in the Olds badge on the trunk lid in the above example, were painted before clear coats.

 

It is often easier to do this type of detailing before any more detail is obscured by clear coats.

 

 

 

Steve

^_^

I stated some paints. Especially chrome paint. Not all paints. 

If I had painted the gold and chrome on this Falcon's scripts before clear, it most certainly would have made the colors run/wick away. The medallion on the trunk lid was foiled and detail painted after clear. 

49493528431_0706c0b766_b.jpg 

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1 hour ago, Plowboy said:

^_^

I stated some paints. Especially chrome paint. Not all paints. 

If I had painted the gold and chrome on this Falcon's scripts before clear, it most certainly would have made the colors run/wick away. The medallion on the trunk lid was foiled and detail painted after clear.  

Of course.

The paint used makes the difference.

 

I use automotive lacquers for this job as a general rule for this very reason.

Just a couple of other shots of work that I've done with this technique that have been clear coated over.

 

image.jpeg.ca41083c04fc0e6d85952a0524a6056c.jpeg

image.jpeg.bec1617fd48cf240dac2d7e33664f4f3.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Steve

Edited by StevenGuthmiller
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44 minutes ago, NOBLNG said:

Rather than start a new thread, I will ask it here since it is foil related...maybe. Is it even possible to foil something this tiny? I am considering just polishing this model. Any other options than foil?

CE887093-53A8-438D-BBCE-558DBC8B0BDD.jpeg

The emblem could easily be foiled. The lettering underneath, I'd dry-brush with silver paint. 

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2 hours ago, NOBLNG said:

Rather than start a new thread, I will ask it here since it is foil related...maybe. Is it even possible to foil something this tiny? I am considering just polishing this model. Any other options than foil?

CE887093-53A8-438D-BBCE-558DBC8B0BDD.jpeg

I would mask those off until the final coat of primer. Prime, foil and paint. Then use 2000 grit to sand the script and emblem to reveal them. 

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53 minutes ago, Plowboy said:

I would mask those off until the final coat of primer. Prime, foil and paint. Then use 2000 grit to sand the script and emblem to reveal them. 

I would use a similar technique without the masking  or the sand paper.

I foil prior to the final color coat and then clean the script off with thinner prior to clear coating.

 

Of course a lot of this is dependent upon your painting process, but I can foil some extremely faint scripts using this method.

And believe it or not, a coat of primer over that bare plastic in the photo will make that script appear much more pronounced.

 

 

 

Steve

 

 

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1 hour ago, Plowboy said:

I would mask those off until the final coat of primer. Prime, foil and paint. Then use 2000 grit to sand the script and emblem to reveal them. 

 

6 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

I would use a similar technique without the masking  or the sand paper.

I foil prior to the final color coat and then clean the script off with thinner prior to clear coating.

Of course a lot of this is dependent upon your painting process, but I can foil some extremely faint scripts using this method.

And believe it or not, a coat of primer over that bare plastic in the photo will make that script appear much more pronounced.

Am I the only one who actually read the post? He said he was thinking of "just polishing" it, which I took it to mean that he wants to polish the plastic--no paint. :unsure:

Of course, I could be wrong. In which case...Never Mind. :lol:

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Bare-Metal Foil Application

 While there are many types of foil products on the market, the one I prefer is 'Bare-Metal' foil. I find it the easiest to work with and very accessible.

 Here are a few hints for using foil products. If you have never used foil before, take an un-painted body and practice. Wash the body and then follow the hints. If you make a mistake, you can easily start over without ruining your paint or body work. When using a self-painted body, make sure the paint is fully cured. While your paint may look dry, it may not be dry enough to handle and work on. I let paint dry about a month, thereby making sure the surface is ready to work. If you are using a pre-painted body, the paint will be cured. Whenever possible, use a bare body, one without windows, interior or other parts or trim attached. It is easier to handle and allows you to trim closely and to trim the inside.

 Put a coat of NON-SILICONE wax or polish on your paint. This will give you a smoother surface to work on and protect the paint from any adhesive residue. The non-silicone finish will not deter the adhesive from sticking. Any silicone-based product will fight the adhesive. I use ‘Novus’, ‘Bare-Metal Plastic Polish’, 'Treatment Model Wax' or 'Meguiar's Professional' series marked 'paintable'.

 Dedicate a handle for foil cutting and mark it. Use as light a handle as possible. Too much weight may cause cutting problems. Use a new blade. Don't try to save money by using an old blade. It's not worth it. A good blade will last 3 or 4 models. Then change the blade and put it in your cutting knife. An old blade may tear the foil or tear into the paint.

 When cutting the foil to apply on the model, cut straight strips. They are easier to handle. Compound curves are more difficult to handle but can be easily overcome with a series of straight strips. Apply the foil as straight as possible, making sure to allow excess foil to straddle your trim.

 Press the foil down onto the trim, first with your fingers and then with a soft tip, like a Tamiya stick or other such tool, until you can see all of the detail under the foil. On a long piece of trim, start from one end and work to the other or start in the middle and work towards the outer ends. (some people like to use a Q-tip to press down the foil, but I find that the strands may come loose and get stuck to the foil)  You can also try those neat little ‘Microbrush’ glue applicators. They fit into many nooks & crannies and don’t leave strands.

 Cut with a very gentle hand. You are not chopping wood or driving nails. You don't need a lot of pressure or strength, just the weight of the handle. Make sure you have cut through the foil, but not the paint. When you have made your cut, use tweezers to remove the excess foil. Some times you can re-use the foil for smaller pieces of trim such as door handles. In most cases, just scrap it as the adhesive will be lost and may fall off when you least expect it.

 When you are finished applying the foil, go back and get your NON-SILICONE wax or polish and apply another coat on your model. Use very little pressure. Now, how does it look? Satisfied? If not, peel it off, clean it and start over. Like it? Good, you're done. See how easy that was! If you have been watching the clock, and you shouldn't be when you're building a model, you may find you have spent up to 3 or 4 hours foiling a model. Don't worry about the time, it doesn't matter. Only the results matter.

Howard Cohen, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 

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2 hours ago, Snake45 said:

Am I the only one who actually read the post? He said he was thinking of "just polishing" it, which I took it to mean that he wants to polish the plastic--no paint. :unsure:

Of course, I could be wrong. In which case...Never Mind. :lol:

The reason I don't want to paint is because of the extremely faint script. I am quite certain I would obliterate it, knowing how I paint! I have never "just polished" a model and thought this may be a candidate. I think the dry brushing is the best solution as this script is far to fine for my fat fingers and failing eyes to trim around!

Sorry Bart...I should have started my own thread.:blink:

r.jpg

Edited by NOBLNG
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2 hours ago, Snake45 said:

 

Am I the only one who actually read the post? He said he was thinking of "just polishing" it, which I took it to mean that he wants to polish the plastic--no paint. :unsure:

Of course, I could be wrong. In which case...Never Mind. :lol:

I'll be the first to admit that I don't always read every word of a post.

Guess this was one of those times that I just skimmed over the high spots. ^_^

 

 

That said, I have to believe that someone probably makes a PE set for this car?

 

 

 

 

Steve

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