The meaning of craftsmanship in model building

[peteski]

A perfect example of a model craftsman and their craftsmanship is right here on this forum:

Mark Jones is also another great example of a model craftsman.  I'm amazed by their work.

[Pete J.]

I was rereading these posts and found I had something else to add.  This is taken from the web site of what, is in my opinion, is the greatest collection of miniatures in the world.  The Joe Martin Craftsmanship museum.  This quote really seems to sum up my feelings about model building. 

What is Craftsmanship?

Joe Martin's main reason for establishing this foundation is to attempt to make the average citizen aware of the beauty of great craftsmanship. An object that exhibits outstanding craftsmanship has a quality to it that inspires beyond the object itself. For most trades, competent work is good enough. It’s simply a case where standards are met and doing the work any better would be a waste of time, effort and money. The type of craftsmen we honor here are the few who use the skills of the trades to produce a form of art. Their level of work rises beyond what is needed to complete the job with competence to a level of perfection that can be recognized by many but achieved by few. Often their work will be building exact scale models of something that interests them, and they do so simply for the love of doing it. Their satisfaction comes from attempting to achieve perfection. Auto modeler Michael Dunlap* sums up the mindset it takes to produce work of this quality as follows:

"The issue I struggle with most days in my shop is, “When is it good enough?” Whether I’m assessing the quality of an individual part or a complete model my answer is this: It’s good enough when, based on my current ability, any further attempt to improve it will probably cause it to be damaged. That having been said, my constant goal is to improve my abilities tomorrow over what they are today. For me, building models cars is a very personal expression. When I cease to improve my skills and thus, my models, I’ll go do something else." —Michael Dunlap

If you interested, here is the website it came from. http://craftsmanshipmuseum.com/

[CabDriver]

I’m really enjoying all the responses to this thread - I’m amazed anyone stuck it out through my long-winded ramblings long enough to actually reply ??

I really appreciate the links to further reading that have been posted above - thanks for those of you who gave me some new rabbit holes to fall down and some new builder’s work to explore!

I picked up a photo book of motorcycles built by Jesse James (of Monster Garage fame not the olden-days outlaw) - I don’t care for his tough-guy persona or all the tabloid nonsense that surrounded that dude for a while but MANNNN can that guy build some gorgeous well-detailed bikes.  Tonnes of tiny little attention-to-detail things to spot...love stuff like that!  Definitely inspired me to think more the importance of little details in my builds!

[Rocking Rodney Rat]

On 6/9/2020 at 9:33 PM, 89AKurt said:

I skipped all the comments, this is strictly my opinion.  I consider myself a crapsman, fake it until I make it.  I make do with what I got.  I'm not going to get a Sherline lathe, a computer program to use for 3D printing or photo-etch, to catch up with some amazing dedicated craftsmen out there.  I tend to corner myself into learning something on most builds, usually it's to find the seat-of-the-pants engineering method that looks convincing, but to expect something to actually work in real life would take much more effort.  I strive for perfection, but it always eludes me, sucks being human. ?

Kurt-

I couldn't agree more. My $.02 (and worth both pennies) is that I enjoy scale auto building. I want to create something unique when I build. That's why I like hot rods/street rods (whatever term you prefer) because each one is different than the others. The engineering of a build is what interests me most and hot rods allow a wide range of possibilities without worrying about the "correctness" of trying to actually replicate a car that exists in 1:1. I don't strive for perfection, perfection is boring to me. Bring on the warts! I'm more interested in the overall 'look' of the car. Stance, wheel/tire combo, the right collection of parts and color make the 'look' for me. I quite enjoy working within the limitations of plastic and some resin parts. A creation made within it's own set of limitations can be a thing of beauty. I don't strive to win contests, I do enter and am generally surprised and appreciative that others like what I build. I consider myself fairly skilled in that I can usually build what I envision, but I'm a far cry from a craftsman. I appreciate some of the finer builds presented here and envy the patience many of you have especially when it comes to that smooth shiny paint! As I frequently say, a model doesn't actually have to function, it just has to look like it could. As Snake says: Model on!  -RRR

Edited June 12, 2020 by Rocking Rodney Rat

[Jantrix]

On 6/6/2020 at 5:32 PM, CabDriver said:

So, I guess the question is, do other builders feel like they’re trying to approach this hobby from a similar viewpoint?  Wanting to really strive to hit ‘perfection’ and finding a lot of enjoyment from doing that?  I’d be really interested to hear other people’s viewpoints if you’re on a journey of knowing you might spend a lifetime trying to get better and better at this and always looking for the best way to do something, not just the best way you know right now.

What it comes down to for me, is time. To achieve the level of quality you are stiving for takes time. My wife and I have a small hobby farm (on top of our 9-5s) and there has never been a greater time sink in the history of mankind. I've been able to finish two models in the last two years. To put more time in per model would reduce that even further. I would not be happy doing so. So I have broken down the qualities that make a great model (in my opinion) and picked the two most important to me. Cleanly built and unique. I have the time to accomplish those and I'm happy with it. It has been a personal struggle to reach the craftsmanship detante between the two halves of my brain, but it has been accomplished. 

[bobthehobbyguy]

To me craftsmanship means taking pride in what you do. Doing things to the best of your ability. In my opinion tht includes building a model out of the doing clean work. There are those who take things to the next level by making their own parts. They are great aerists.

[randyc]

Interesting thread. I build for me.  And it's not a high bar.   I don't add much if it's not in the box or close at hand.  But what is there, I try to make it as real as possible.  Smoothing out parting lnes, glue seams, etc.  

Making interiors are visually stimulating as a real car.  THe little chrome bits and details.    The photo below is one of the interiors I am still pleased with.   There is a LOT going on with dashboards. 

I try to make sure the panel lines are deep enough.  Get the parting lines off the exterior.  

Most of the time, my models are only seen by you guys and my family.  My family doesn't catch all the details like you guys do.  If it has a pretty color and isn't too bad, they love it.  

I am really dascinated by HPIguy's builds though.   He builds a kit in a couple days and it looks fine or even better.   Mold lines?  Leave em.  Fancy paint?  nope Rustoleum straight out of can.  Almost like anti craftsmanship but the models look great when complete.  I guess it's all in knowing where to put your time in.

Currently I am fascinated by the multitude of sheens on real cars - the "chrome" on most cars and parts doesn't look a thing like the kit plating.   Body trim can have a lot of different sheens too, depending on material and where it is on the car.  

And finally - transmissions and other bare metal parts.   Carbs - what color or they really?  More of a gray.   Transmissions arent usually any sort of bottle paint metal paint.   Probably a shade of gray?  THese are my "craftsmanship" questions right this very moment.  

 

 

[Tom Geiger]

3 hours ago, randyc said:

I am really dascinated by HPIguy's builds though.   He builds a kit in a couple days and it looks fine or even better.   Mold lines?  Leave em.  Fancy paint?  nope Rustoleum straight out of can.  Almost like anti craftsmanship but the models look great when complete.  I guess it's all in knowing where to put your time in.

I’m not a fan. He has a simplistic view of model building, it’s like assembling a puzzle. His stuff may look okay in the videos, but I’d like to see it in person where those mold lines will jump out at you.

I have participated in the 24 Hour Build the past several years, but I’ve always maintained the basic skills of prep, prime and paint with automotive paints I always add detail and wire my engine. 

The Facebook model pages are full of guys with paint problems asking for advice.. when asked, they followed his videos... no primer or prep, hardware store spray bombs. 

 

[randyc]

13 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

I’m not a fan. He has a simplistic view of model building, it’s like assembling a puzzle. His stuff may look okay in the videos, but I’d like to see it in person where those mold lines will jump out at you.

I have participated in the 24 Hour Build the past several years, but I’ve always maintained the basic skills of prep, prime and paint with automotive paints I always add detail and wire my engine. 

The Facebook model pages are full of guys with paint problems asking for advice.. when asked, they followed his videos... no primer or prep, hardware store spray bombs. 

 

IT is simplistic.  But it looks okay and he seems to be having fun.  I can't get past sanding and filing parts and seams.  That's basic to me.  Has to be done.  I don't wire engines anymore.   never had anyone take points off at my house for it.   And no shows or competitons I want to enter.  Just not why I build cars anymore. 

I have used Chris' method for a painting a couple cars.  Not the lack of cleaning, but the actual spray bombing the paint.  Prime and then paint.  He does prime most of the time.  And his method will work as a starting point if you can handle the spray can.  Can't firehose with a spray can of any sort.   I would NOT advocate leaving parting lines or seams visible if I were asked.   But HPIguy does. 

I don't do automotive paints other than duplicolor.  I don't order special paints for models.  Just not that dedicated to it I guess.  BUt my builds are ok with me.  And mostly finished these days.  

Which is better?  A closet full of unfinshed models or a shelf full of cars you can display?  I go to the finished models...

[JollySipper]

1 hour ago, randyc said:

Which is better?  A closet full of unfinshed models or a shelf full of cars you can display?

Actually, I have my finished models packed away as I don't have anywhere to display them....

I think in terms of "quality over quantity" tho.... I'm more proud of a build that I spent a month or more trying to do a good job on than something that was rushed through....

[Ace-Garageguy]

I'm always somewhat mystified by the people who define craftsmanship in terms of what other people think of their models, who say quality doesn't matter because they don't compete, and who say they build for themselves.

I approach craftsmanship from the perspective that I care what I think of my models, though I don't compete, and I build solely for my own enjoyment, to my own standards...and part of that enjoyment comes from doing objectively good work, to the best of my ability...and not being content to settle for mediocrity.

I'd rather have unfinished models that have some exceptionally fine work in them than a cabinet full of completed models that have little or none.

When I look at even a small bit of work that I've done that I'd be impressed by if I saw it on a contest table, that one small achievement gives me vastly more pleasure than looking at a hundred half-assed builds.

[Tom Geiger]

1 hour ago, randyc said:

I don't do automotive paints other than duplicolor.  I don't order special paints for models.  Just not that dedicated to it I guess.  BUt my builds are ok with me.  And mostly finished these days.  

Which is better?  A closet full of unfinshed models or a shelf full of cars you can display?  I go to the finished models...

Which is better? Having a few dozen nicely done detailed, modified and unique models, or a hundred quick hack jobs that you don’t have the space to display?

Randy, I’m a lot like you. The must clean up the molding issues. I prime,  use mostly Duplicolor, and my own sense of satisfaction demands I do the best job I can.  

I do wire engines and even add little bits like photo etch and ribbon seat belts, valve stems and photo reduced license plates.  I find the little details don’t take much effort and are pleasing. 

I believe many if not most of us on the board see modeling as our art and seek to satisfy a certain vision in our mind with each build. 

[stitchdup]

I build both ways, i'll take a poor kit to work and do a build start to finish in a night like the terrible mitsuawa golf cabrio, brush painted it and threw it together. At home I'll spend more time and try to make something better than the last build. I'm quite happy to spend hours adding stuff but sometimes that bites back too, I spent a month wiring a heavily customised kennmary skyline, then put it on a race style bellypan and hid a months worth of work never to be seen again. I also enjoy making aircooled dub models have working suspension. At the end of the day I enjoy both ways of building

[CabDriver]

4 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

When I look at even a small bit of work that I've done that I'd be impressed by if I saw it on a contest table, that one small achievement gives me vastly more pleasure than looking at a hundred half-assed builds.

That’s a great gauge to follow, in my opinion.  I like looking at something the next day and thinking “Huh!  I did a nice job of that!”.  Much better than looking at it the next day and thinking “well, I’m redoing THAT today” ?

I read a quote this week on the subject that craftsmanship that said something like “A builder will allow people people say “he made that” but a craftsman will have people say “HOW did he do that?!””

I like when I see someone’s work on here and I get to experience the “how did they do that?!” reaction myself!  I don’t specifically build to get that reaction back, but it does feel good to get positive feedback, of course!  Most rewarding for me is to think “huh! I MANAGED to do that!” ?

[sfhess]

Even at the best judged model car shows where craftsmanship is supposed to be at its highest, there are many entries with mold lines, ejector pin marks, copyright information left on, etc, etc.  I have seen judges sigh and put down models that look great on the surface but the chassis detail is sorely lacking and poorly finished.  The y end up giving awards to "the best of the worst".

[Straightliner59]

6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I'm always somewhat mystified by the people who define craftsmanship in terms of what other people think of their models, who say quality doesn't matter because they don't compete, and who say they build for themselves.

I approach craftsmanship from the perspective that I care what I think of my models, though I don't compete, and I build solely for my own enjoyment, to my own standards...and part of that enjoyment comes from doing objectively good work, to the best of my ability...and not being content to settle for mediocrity.

I'd rather have unfinished models that have some exceptionally fine work in them than a cabinet full of completed models that have little or none.

When I look at even a small bit of work that I've done that I'd be impressed by if I saw it on a contest table, that one small achievement gives me vastly more pleasure than looking at a hundred half-assed builds.

Bingo! Whether or not there might be contest/show I want to  enter is irrelevant--I build what I want to see in a model. With each project, I generally try something that I haven't, before, and, I work to make it my most "complete" piece, yet.

[StevenGuthmiller]

6 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I'm always somewhat mystified by the people who define craftsmanship in terms of what other people think of their models, who say quality doesn't matter because they don't compete, and who say they build for themselves.

I approach craftsmanship from the perspective that I care what I think of my models, though I don't compete, and I build solely for my own enjoyment, to my own standards...and part of that enjoyment comes from doing objectively good work, to the best of my ability...and not being content to settle for mediocrity.

I'd rather have unfinished models that have some exceptionally fine work in them than a cabinet full of completed models that have little or none.

When I look at even a small bit of work that I've done that I'd be impressed by if I saw it on a contest table, that one small achievement gives me vastly more pleasure than looking at a hundred half-assed builds.

 

6 hours ago, Tom Geiger said:

Which is better? Having a few dozen nicely done detailed, modified and unique models, or a hundred quick hack jobs that you don’t have the space to display?

Randy, I’m a lot like you. The must clean up the molding issues. I prime,  use mostly Duplicolor, and my own sense of satisfaction demands I do the best job I can.  

I do wire engines and even add little bits like photo etch and ribbon seat belts, valve stems and photo reduced license plates.  I find the little details don’t take much effort and are pleasing. 

I believe many if not most of us on the board see modeling as our art and seek to satisfy a certain vision in our mind with each build. 

 

2 hours ago, CabDriver said:

That’s a great gauge to follow, in my opinion.  I like looking at something the next day and thinking “Huh!  I did a nice job of that!”.  Much better than looking at it the next day and thinking “well, I’m redoing THAT today” ?

I read a quote this week on the subject that craftsmanship that said something like “A builder will allow people people say “he made that” but a craftsman will have people say “HOW did he do that?!””

I like when I see someone’s work on here and I get to experience the “how did they do that?!” reaction myself!  I don’t specifically build to get that reaction back, but it does feel good to get positive feedback, of course!  Most rewarding for me is to think “huh! I MANAGED to do that!” ?

I agree wholeheartedly with all of this.

I have, and still do build simplified, curbside builds when it's warranted in my view, but I do often look back on some of my simpler models and think that I would like to do them over again.

When I look at my more highly detailed projects, I'm proud of them and wouldn't change a thing.

I would rather have a dozen of the latter, than 100 of the former.

 

But, with that said, I find myself over the years wandering back and forth with how much detail I choose to add to a project, and that's still okay with me.

I greatly prefer to detail them, but they don't all have to be that way.

 

 

 

 

Steve

Edited June 26, 2020 by StevenGuthmiller

[MrObsessive]

On 6/7/2020 at 2:09 AM, Bugatti Fan said:

Enjoy the challenge of each part you make as a model in itself, as much of the process is getting your mind around what basic shapes make up your assemblies. Patience and perseverance have to be your main attributes when doing this sort of work.

Yes.........this has been my attitude towards building for many a year now. Treat each part as a kit. Yes, it takes time, but the results are so much more worth the effort IMO.

[Eric Macleod]

I personally consider myself to be in the bottom 10% in terms of skillset on this forum.  Part of that is tools. Some is eyesight and some simply physical dexterity.  That being said,  I do the best I can; I strive for better and I keep trying to acquire more skills.  All the while,  it has to be fun. Part of that fun is admiring the considerable skills of others who are willing to share with the rest of us.  For that I am grateful. 

[Codi]

I just stumbled upon this thread and enjoyed every single comment.  After a bit of pondering the original statement, I would sum it up as "you know it when you see it".    It might only be a single part or 2 on a model (any kind or type) or it might be the entire model.  It's one of the reasons i enjoy the forum because there are so many different types of builds here and I can appreciate them all.    Cheers, tim

[Tom Geiger]

3 hours ago, Codi said:

I just stumbled upon this thread and enjoyed every single comment.  After a bit of pondering the original statement, I would sum it up as "you know it when you see it".  

Agreed. One of the reasons I fly out to GSL is to observe the cutting edge of the art. There are always a handful of over the top masterpieces exhibiting skills I will never possess, but that I can admire and learn from. 

[Bugatti Fan]

I would really like to get over from the UK to the next GSL and put in one or two of my models.

 I understand, unfortunately that it will be the last GSL but have no idea as to why it will be discontinued.

Having pulled up the pics of the last one is just inspirational. Mark's Caterham that won best of show is something to behold!

[Snake45]

On 6/26/2020 at 10:59 AM, Ace-Garageguy said:

I'd rather have unfinished models that have some exceptionally fine work in them than a cabinet full of completed models that have little or none.

I've said many times this is a HOBBY and there's no wrong way to enjoy it IF you're having FUN. If "unfinished models that have some exceptionally fine work in them" is FUN for you, then that's great, but it doesn't work for me. But neither does "a cabinet full of completed models that have little or none." 

There's a lot of FUN to be had somewhere in the middle of those two extremes. The trick is to find the balance that's FUN for each participant in this hobby. Few if any of us have the time in life to build a large collection of models with exceptionally fine craftsmanship. And that's assuming we have the money, the skill, and the patience/attention span to do so, which are all variables over which we have at least some control. We have no (or very, very little) control over that most precious of commodities, time. As the late great Warren Zevon sang, "They say Jesus will find you wherever you go, but when he'll come looking for you, they don't know." 

Of course, one need not build every model to the same standard, whether very high or fairly low. It's perfectly fine to mix it up. Just make sure you're always having FUN! 

[Ace-Garageguy]

41 minutes ago, Snake45 said:

I've said many times this is a HOBBY and there's no wrong way to enjoy it IF you're having FUN...Just make sure you're always having FUN! 

Again, I'm curious. In my understanding, fun=enjoyment.

So...why the hell would anybody do this stuff if it wasn't for enjoyment?

Much of the narrative always seems to me to be implying that "fun" and pursuing excellence are mutually exclusive, and that those of us who enjoy pursuing quality, even if we never finish anything, somehow are not doing it right.

Can "fun" be challenging? Can "having FUN" sometimes be frustrating? Can "fun" be difficult? Can "fun" be very time consuming with little tangible reward?

Yes to all the above in my world-view.

And in case it's not clear, I'd rather have one unfinished model exhibiting exceptionally fine craftsmanship than a hundred just slapped-together.

BUT...that is certainly not to say that I don't see how people can enjoy putting kits together, even with nothing added whatsoever. Minimal effort. Or working to ANY standard they desire to embrace. If that floats somebody's boat, that's just dandy with me.

And I don't think we need fun-police. Or quality-police. 

So...if you enjoy modeling the particular way you approach it, if it adds something to your life (even if it's not adhering to anyone else's definition of "FUN"), even if frustration occasionally makes you want to throw something across the room, then you're doing it right.

 

Edited June 27, 2020 by Ace-Garageguy

[Snake45]

26 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Again, I'm curious. In my understanding, fun=enjoyment.

So...why the hell would anybody do this stuff if it wasn't for enjoyment?

Much of the narrative always seems to me to be implying that "fun" and pursuing excellence are mutually exclusive, and that those of us who enjoy pursuing quality, even if we never finish anything, somehow are not doing it right.

You are WAY overthinking this, in search of an argument. You are also saying things I never said. 

If YOU are having fun, then YOU are doing things the right way FOR YOU. Nothing wrong with that at all! All I said is, never finishing anything wouldn't work for ME. 

I'm trying to reach the guy who thinks he HAS to add every brake line and throttle return spring to EVERY build or he's not "doing it right" and the "big boys" won't respect him. That guy is doomed to frustration and will eventually give up the hobby because he thinks he can't "keep up." I know that guy well. Hell, I used to BE that guy and wasted too many years at it. 

I'll repeat: Any way you're doing this hobby, if you're ENJOYING it and having FUN, you're doing it RIGHT. For YOU. And that's really all that matters.