A Question of Scale

[Greg Myers]

When they redid the Ala Kart there was some controversy over the size of the new engine, many saying it was too small. This was sorted out some what by looking at the variations of the early Hemi.

When the Slingster kit came out, noted on the box as 1/25th scale this looked very small to me, if not tiny. I'm sure in part to my love of the original Slizzer kit from which it was derived. The later kit being of questionable scale, something to do with early Monogram offerings or maybe the "Box Scale" syndrome.

My question is, has anyone measured out the newer Slingster kit?

Edited June 13, 2020 by Greg Myers

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 minutes ago, Greg Myers said:

When they redid the Ala Kart there was some controversy over the size of the new engine, many saying it was too small. This was sorted out some what by looking at the variations of the early Hemi.

Please don't start that misinformation going around again. 

The "new tool" Ala Kart Red Ram Dodge hemi engine is approximately 1/32 scale in a 1/25 kit. Ridiculous. And no need for it, as a correctly-scaled engine will fit in the engine bay of that kit.

The old-tool Ala Kart Red Ram Dodge hemi engine, though not entirely accurate, is close to being correctly scaled for 1/25.

I was one of the ones who measured the real engines and posted the dimensions on several model boards years ago.

I have measured some of the parts in the Slingster kit, and some are indeed underscale. The slicks, for example. And I pretty much shelved the kit in disgust.

I've never come to a definitive conclusion about the body, however. The American Bantam the body represents is a tiny car, so who knows at this point.

I have a Bantam die-cast that was sold as 1/25 that I bought specifically to try to clear this up.

Unfortunately, whoever scaled it was arithmetic-challenged as well, because it's clearly HUGE for 1/25. So there's no useful data to be derived from that.

Numbers very are hard apparently.

BUT...if somebody will find me a good profile shot of a Bantam, and find out what size wheels came on the thing from the factory, I'll work out ballpark scales for the two Monogram kits.

[Mark]

Diecasts are generally all over the place.  There are a lot of "1/24 scale" cars that measure out smaller, some measure out larger.  The Ertl Bantam is one (about 1/20, but I'll admit to never having checked one), the Johnny Lightning bullet nose Studebaker is another (if I remember right that one is about 1/22).

And the "1/25 scale" car kits don't escape criticism either.  ALL Jo-Han AMC products from 1961 on are 1/24 scale.  Their '62 Studebaker Larks are about 1/23.  My best guess would be that Jo-Han used the larger scales to make the models look right with existing tires.

A while back, I measured an IMC (Lindberg) Dodge A-100, and found the major dimensions to be about 1/25.7 scale.  The only way to know for certain is to measure the item in question and compare with the specs of the 1/1 vehicle.

[Snake45]

I saw a real restored stock Bantam coupe at a car show last year. I was shocked at how small it was. They're tiny! 

[afx]

Really good side shot in the video but no size information on the tire that I can see.

[Snake45]

7 minutes ago, afx said:

Really good side shot in the video but no size information on the tire that I can see.

If that's a SBC, should be easy enough to use the valve cover as a "ruler" for size. 

[afx]

Bantam’s wheelbase was 75 inches. It’s length 105 inches and weight averaged about 1,100 lbs.

https://automuseumonline.com/1930-austin-bantam-coupe-specs-model-history.html

Edited June 14, 2020 by afx

[afx]

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=81752

[Greg Myers]

13 hours ago, Snake45 said:

If that's a SBC, should be easy enough to use the valve cover as a "ruler" for size. 

Looks like an Olds

[STYRENE-SURFER]

This side shot may be of help, looks like an unmolested steel body on this. This could easily be sized and printed out for a starting point.

Did the roadster body share any dimensions?  

All I could find as far as overall width and cowl hight and width were approximations on this image.

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by STYRENE-SURFER

[sjordan2]

Bburago classic diecasts, supposedly 1:18, are all over the place in scale. For example, the Bugatti T59 turns out to be closer to 1:14 when measured against original blueprints. I'm guessing that the variations occur so they could use the same wire wheels for all of them.

[Bugatti Fan]

Talking of Burago die cast scales being all over the place, I bought what was supposed to be a 1/24th scale MG Metro road car.  One glaring error was that it did not have an MG badged grille at all but the one used on the Austin version at the time. The scale error was that the model was nearer to 1/20th scale.    As luck would have it I had also bought some time ago a resin kit by a now defunct UK company named MRM International of the MG METRO 6R4 Rally Car purportedly in 1/24th scale. It was nearer to 1/20th like the Burago Die cast. The resin kit body did not look right at all as the roofline was much too low. It was pretty useless as a straight build, and then I thought of the Burago diecast and checking this out the body was at least accurately shaped. I decided to do a kit bash by cutting out all the parts useable off the MRM resin kit and modifying the Burago body to take the MRM parts. After much hard work I ended up with a quite passable model of Tony Pond's Works 6R4 in 1/20th scale or thereabouts that is now a unique model. Basically I enjoyed the challenge of cutting  resin and die cast parts that were usable and grafting them to make my model.

No sooner had I done all of this work that Belkits announced that they were making a 6R4 kit in polystyrene in 1/24th scale! I understand that Le Mans Miniatures and Renaissance have 6R4 kits in resin also in the same scale already available.

[Snake45]

2 hours ago, Greg Myers said:

Looks like an Olds

Then I'm glad I used the weasel-word IF. 

[STYRENE-SURFER]

17 hours ago, Greg Myers said:

snip<<<

My question is, has anyone measured out the newer Slingster kit?

Greg...

Are you planning on doing any measuring on your own? I would be interested in any results you come up with.

I don't have that kit (Yet). Love those old competition coupes!

Not sure what all the die cast conversation has to do with the price of eggs?

[Ace-Garageguy]

43 minutes ago, STYRENE-SURFER said:

...Not sure what all the die cast conversation has to do with the price of eggs?

I mentioned I'd bought a supposedly 1/24 or 1/25 diecast to measure so as to get an idea of the actual scales of both the Monogram body shells.

The diecast was WAY wrong too. They probably made it ridiculously huge because, had it been correct, it would have been tiny and morons would have complained.

I'll take some info from the shots above, do some basic arithmetic, measure my kits here, compare, and post the results.

[STYRENE-SURFER]

16 minutes ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

I mentioned I'd bought a supposedly 1/24 or 1/25 diecast to measure so as to get an idea of the actual scales of both the Monogram body shells.

The diecast was WAY wrong too. They probably made it ridiculously huge because, had it been correct, it would have been tiny and morons would have complained.

I'll take some info from the shots above, do some basic arithmetic, measure my kits here, compare, and post the results.

Ace...

i understood your post completely, and it was topical.

It was the other comments that kinda lost track of the original question.

Thanx for doing the leg work ?

 

[afx]

There is a nice drawing at this link to work from.  It won't let me posts it however.

http://theoldmotor.com/?p=81752

[gtx6970]

22 hours ago, Snake45 said:

If that's a SBC, should be easy enough to use the valve cover as a "ruler" for size. 

To many bolts along the lower edge to be small block chevy

[Ace-Garageguy]

OK...based on the drawings afx posted above, and a known nominal wheelbase of 75 inches, the current Slingster body measures out to be very close, plenty close enough for a dragster body, to 1/25 scale. 

The method of determining this:

The wheelbase on my screen displays at 4.794". Dividing 75" by 4.794", we get 15.64. That means the drawing displays 1/15.64 scale on my screen.

Measuring the firewall height at the beltline, the length of the body at the beltline from the firewall to the rear extremity, and the width of the cowl, multiplying all those respective  numbers by 15.64, we get the full scale dimensions. Close enough, anyway.

Then, taking those numbers and dividing by 25, we get the real dimensions of the body as rendered in 1/25 scale.

Then we measure the kit body and compare.

Very close, again, plenty close enough for what the kit body represents.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't unearthed the earlier kit body yet, but I can tell with certainty from looking at the OP's opening shot that it's significantly over 1/24 scale.

[Snake45]

I'm hoping to restore the Slingster body to stock-ish, and build a street rod around it. 

Meanwhile, I really dug that "Little Honker" thing above. Maybe I'll use the less-detailed Jawbreaker body and do that or something like it on the Slingster frame. 

[Daddyfink]

3 hours ago, gtx6970 said:

To many bolts along the lower edge to be small block chevy

It's a 394 Oldsmobile 

[Brian Austin]

Perhaps this drawing from Special Interest Autos might be of some additional help.

 

[Daddyfink]

 

It's all in the chop

[Straightliner59]

On 6/14/2020 at 6:42 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

I haven't unearthed the earlier kit body yet, but I can tell with certainty from looking at the OP's opening shot that it's significantly over 1/24 scale.

A couple of friends and I were messing around with a Sizzler, one day, and figured it's about 1/22.5 scale, based on the length of the engine.

[Flat32]

 

https://youtu.be/Zq0_KAkuAN4

Edited June 16, 2020 by Flat32