Atlantis Models has bought another lot of tooling/molds.....

[niteowl7710]

I mean it's a very good possibility that Okey is in possession of most of, if not all of what tooling was still left when Seville sold it to him. Lots of inserts went missing - by employees selling them so the story goes - before Seville got hold of it, but they clearly produced a bunch of stuff under that USA Oldies label, plus the kits they ran for Testors. They were the same type of company that JoHan was in so much as Seville Industries made plastic car parts and ran Jo-Han on the side. 

If the inventory was so poorly managed and you don't have a background in tooling it's very difficult to tell what a given tooling might produce. It's not like Okey (appears to anyways) has a injection machine, or the financial wherewithal to pay someone else to run hanger shots of whatever he might have.

Not to run Okey down, but based on the notes he added to the instructions to the few things he did release by making whole kits out of leftover parts it's pretty clear he had no idea whatsoever what he was looking at, and didn't even have the ability to pay someone to make a clear glass piece (to replace the smoked one) in the Plymouth Fury which would have cost a few thousand at most, let alone all the rest of the improvements for that Furyt hat were once touted that never materialized.

[Mark]

May have been scrapped by SeVille.  I doubt they have been just sitting somewhere for twenty years plus.  The Jo-Han building in Michigan is long gone, anything that was there is either somewhere else, or gone also.

[niteowl7710]

39 minutes ago, Mark said:

May have been scrapped by SeVille.  I doubt they have been just sitting somewhere for twenty years plus.  The Jo-Han building in Michigan is long gone, anything that was there is either somewhere else, or gone also.

Everything would have been moved over to Romeo where Seville was based at back in 1991 when they took over the assets of Jo-Han.

At this point Okey has owned whatever he owns for closing in on 23 years and other than re-packing some Furys, 56 Plymouths, Rambler Wagons and bodies for some X-El nothing has ever come of it.  I don't have high hopes of whatever he does have being stored properly for the past two decades either to be honest. At this point it might be worth scrap steel value and nothing else.

[Justin Porter]

At this point I would ADORE some sort of statement from Okey or whomever saying "Oh, yeah, THAT tooling. Scrapped in '03. Here's the $300 I got for the steel. Laters!" so that people will let go of their reverent hope that those archaic fossil kits will be reissued and we can move on to trying to convince a modern manufacturer to do the reasonable thing and tool something ALL NEW instead. 

Which, naturally, wouldn't be Atlantis who are in the business of reissuing Aurora, Revell, and Monogram kits. Among which I'm still hoping will be some of the Monogram 1/24th classics.

[Carmak]

The story I have heard repeated many times on this forum and other places is that at some point JoHan or Seville had not paid their workers, so the workers stole much of the tooling and sold it for scrap.

[Daddyfink]

This whole JoHan tooling stuff will end up in the same place a dozen other threads have gone, nowhere. 

Until Okey says what is, or isn't there, it is just speculation that has been covered here over and over. Do a quick search for this and you will be flooded with the same questions and answers. 

Just keeping it real, as this subject is getting really boring, and will most likely end up on a heated discussion about correct MOPAR hubcaps! 

 

[Mark]

There can't have been much usable stuff left at the end.  SeVille started out promising more reissues and even some new stuff, they must have figured at some point the operation wasn't throwing off enough money to do any of that.  I don't think any of us can realize just how small an operation the original Jo-Han company was, especially after all the promo business was gone.  They lost the last of that after 1979 (Cadillac), lost AMC after 1974, Plymouth after 1970, Dodge after 1964.  They had some Ford work briefly, but did only three Ford promos (two and a half, if you consider the Comet was converted from the Maverick).  Still, that's more Ford promos than MPC did!

The reissues after about 1972 or so seem to have been chosen by "what can we do most easily" as opposed to "what were the most popular items in the past".  They seem to have been operating hand-to-mouth from the mid-Seventies on.

[Luc Janssens]

7 hours ago, stavanzer said:

It seems very strange that those tools could have vanished so completely. Somebody has to know where they've gone. Injection Molding Models, cannot be a very large world. You'd think that there would be rumors, amongst the folks still in the industry or retired folks.

They had to be at run at Jo-Han due to the specific nature of the tooling. But if the specific to Jo-Han injection molding machines were sold, the tooling even complete is useless and don’t think anyone with a business sense is going to invest in custom made one off equipment.

[Dave Van]

There is JoHan tooling out there NOT in Okey's hands. If you will recall Moebius had announced they were LOOKING at a number of kits that were ex JoHan. They would upgrade the interiors and chassis to create a new curbside kits. After looking into it and the cost of the existing tooling the ROI was not there. The current owner of the tooling is VERY firm on his costs. Accurate Miniatures looked into the tooling about 7 -8 years ago....they came to the same conclusions.  If someone thinks they have the DEEP DEEP pockets to buy what is out there....good luck!! 

[niteowl7710]

1 hour ago, Dave Van said:

There is JoHan tooling out there NOT in Okey's hands. If you will recall Moebius had announced they were LOOKING at a number of kits that were ex JoHan. They would upgrade the interiors and chassis to create a new curbside kits. After looking into it and the cost of the existing tooling the ROI was not there. The current owner of the tooling is VERY firm on his costs. Accurate Miniatures looked into the tooling about 7 -8 years ago....they came to the same conclusions.  If someone thinks they have the DEEP DEEP pockets to buy what is out there....good luck!! 

That tooling is going to wind up in the same dumpster as the guys who have have the traveling kit museums pretending to be vendor tables at model shows. Eventually they'll pass from this mortal plane and their family will pitch or fire sale it all.

[1972coronet]

2 hours ago, Dave Van said:

There is JoHan tooling out there NOT in Okey's hands. If you will recall Moebius had announced they were LOOKING at a number of kits that were ex JoHan. They would upgrade the interiors and chassis to create a new curbside kits. After looking into it and the cost of the existing tooling the ROI was not there. The current owner of the tooling is VERY firm on his costs. Accurate Miniatures looked into the tooling about 7 -8 years ago....they came to the same conclusions.  If someone thinks they have the DEEP DEEP pockets to buy what is out there....good luck!! 

3D scanning puts, in es, an end to that long-in-the-tooth tooling anyhow. Why hassle with purchasing rusty, worn, outdated stuff that belongs in the La Brea Tar Pits when new tooling could be created by scanning an existing kit, and improve upon the antiquities? 

I have an almost mint (someone glued the plastic slicks' halves together) Johan 1970 Maverick 2-in-1 that I'd be more than willing to send off to Round2 for just such a scan-and-update makeover. IIRC, it's the only issue of the Maverick which has the bench seat (moulded-in), I-6 engine, and other factory stock items.

Okay, Saville, et alia, can keep their expensive paperweights (not to diminish Okay's contributions, nor to assert an ad hom. attack against him).

[niteowl7710]

19 minutes ago, 1972coronet said:

3D scanning puts, in es, an end to that long-in-the-tooth tooling anyhow. Why hassle with purchasing rusty, worn, outdated stuff that belongs in the La Brea Tar Pits when new tooling could be created by scanning an existing kit, and improve upon the antiquities? 

Simple, that old stuff exists. The reason Atlantis went dumpster diving at Revell (and by proxy Salvinos buying the old NASCAR stuff from Atlantis) is that stuff is.

3D scanning opens a world of possibilities, but other than shaving some R&D costs off the top doesn't make the costs associated with making a new tool kit any less than the costs of making a new tool kit. Make no bones about it Round2 is spending large piles of that cash they got when they sold 49% of the company to that investment group a few years back. They've got to be getting close to a million dollars worth of new tooling at this point and there's still more coming in 2023 & 2024 - Lord willing and the creek don't rise.

Round2 is reissuing the curbside version of the new '63 Nova Wagon next month with a Coke box...because you have to amortize that cost somehow. I'd buy a Maverick because of the oddity of it if nothing else, but it's still going to cost what it's going to cost - to say nothing about doing the same sort of subtle upgrades all the recent projects got like the Nova, 4070A, '68 Coronet, et al. You still need to sell at/around the same number of units to turn a profit. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by niteowl7710

[Dave Van]

The JoHan tooling out there are real niche vehicles. 3D printing or making new tool by scanning old kits would not make any money. These tools are at a tool & die shop, in good shape (and why he wants $$$) but the DEMAND is not there. If you want to make new tooling by scanning old kits, thousands of better projects than 60's era Chrysler mid size cars. 

[Robberbaron]

My, how time flies...shown at the 2014 iHobby Expo:

Don't forget that Okey managed to produce a run of the Rambler wagons with luggage, etc.  Not too familiar with it since I never got my hands on one.

I think that's the only actual new product he managed to crank out.  Wasn't there a sob story shortly thereafter about the tooling being "held hostage"?

The fact that he's now trying to hock 3D-printed Powell trucks should tell you everything you need to know...

🤡

[Mark]

Besides the Rambler wagon, the snap Chrysler Turbine Car kits were (then) newly produced.  The Plymouth police cars had new decal sheets and vacuum formed clear windows but were otherwise packaged from stock.  There were some Comet pro street kits, and possibly some '70 4-4-2s made up from stock also.

[Motor City]

12 hours ago, Dave Van said:

The JoHan tooling out there are real niche vehicles. 3D printing or making new tool by scanning old kits would not make any money. These tools are at a tool & die shop, in good shape (and why he wants $$$) but the DEMAND is not there. If you want to make new tooling by scanning old kits, thousands of better projects than 60's era Chrysler mid size cars. 

I think there is a market for at least some of the '63-'70 Coupe deVille and deVille, '67-'76 Eldorado, '66-'72 Tornado, '65-'68 Fury III, and Chrysler New Yorker and 300 models.

[Dave Van]

2 hours ago, Motor City said:

I think there is a market for at least some of the '63-'70 Coupe deVille and deVille, '67-'76 Eldorado, '66-'72 Tornado, '65-'68 Fury III, and Chrysler New Yorker and 300 models.

I'd buy some of the Caddys......even the Chrysler 60's wagons. BUT these are not the kits the mainstream model co are willing to take a chance on.  The market is already pretty small.....some of the cars the tooling is out there for are a small slice of a small market. 

[Jon Cole]

Remember these from 2012? Some company called IMC that went nowhere. Based on JoHan I believe.

[Luc Janssens]

4 minutes ago, Jon Cole said:

Remember these from 2012? Some company called IMC that went nowhere. Based on JoHan I believe.

It was the Brainchild of Ernie Petit, but it got nowhere....

[Mark]

Ernie apparently decided not to bet his retirement funds on the venture...probably a good move on his part.  He's gone now, so that deal is gone for sure.

The fact that Ertl, Revell, and Lindberg (still a separate company then) passed on the Jo-Han assets should tell us all we need to know.  Those of us who collect and build original Jo-Han kits still appreciate their work, they were a sentimental favorite and will remain so.

[Dave Van]

18 minutes ago, Luc Janssens said:

It was the Brainchild of Ernie Petit, but it got nowhere....

He ran into costly licensing fees......Rumors out there WHY that was an issue........but only Ernie knows and he gone now IIRC. 

[Luc Janssens]

12 minutes ago, Dave Van said:

But only Ernie knows and he gone now IIRC. 

Indeed.

[stavanzer]

Well, this proves that the tooling IS still out there, and due to a severe case "I know What it's Worth, and I'm not going to be cheated", it will never be run again. He'd be best served to get something out of it, while he still can, and I'll bet he he has been given that advice repeatedly. I'll also bet he is holding out for a better offer. A better offer, that may never come.

But, That is of no matter now. We will just keep selling an ever dwindling number of "M.I.B.", "Partly started", "Built" & "Glue-bombed" Jo-Han kits amongst ourselves.

Someday there will be no more "M.I.B." kits, but the rest will keep trading hands for a long time.

[Dave Van]

The value of this tooling goes down every minute it sits. I'd sell it for a $1 over scrap value to get it gone. Someday, maybe now, it is worth more as scrap......so that may decide it's fate. 

[boss 302 mustang]

But don't you need to have the "oddball" molding machines that John Haenle used in order to run those tools?