Top-Hat Tee! ?

[CabDriver]

Had this Jimmy Flintstone body for a couple of years - it’s been sitting on my bench and every now and then I pick it up, do a little cleanup, mock it up with some wheels, decide I don’t like those wheels and put it back on the bench again

I figured I’d do a little actual work on it this weekend and maybe I’ll get somewhere with this thing before the resin turns to dust.  I’ve been casually collecting parts for this build for a while  and read an old thread today by @Dennis Lacy where he was working on one of these and found myself inspired.  His build ended up with a different body, but I’m gonna stick with this one, unchopped, for this one.

Whatever parts I end up choosing I’ll need a frame, so that was first order of business - nothing too complex or fancy, just a big kick up in the back so the ride height isn’t any higher than it needs to be and a little kick in the front for the same reason:

Ive had this front axle in my spares box forever and earmarked for this build - no idea what it came from but I added the spring from a broken Revell 32 axle I had as a starting point:

The axle has locating holes on the back for the linkages but the fit was pretty sloppy so I added some receivers from some styrene tube and got them where they’ll pretty much snap into place and hold (and should fit real nice once there’s a coat of paint on there):

I had a spare set of the nice finned drums from the Revell 29 kit which I think will also be donating it’s wheels and tires so I opened them up so they fit right on the new axle.  With those bits in place I was able to make a spring perch for the frame:

And a mock-up to see how it’ll work:

And a quick mock-up with the wheels and body...it won’t be THIS low but it won’t be super high either...

I like it already!   Not a bunch of progress so far, but I figure if I start a thread it’s a real project and I’ll have to get it done ?. More soon! ?

[stitchdup]

I like the direction you're headed

[Deuces ll]

Ok, I'm hooked!... I have an 1/8th scale version of the Tall T from Lindberg.... I like what your doing with this one.... ??

Edited August 4, 2020 by Deuces ll

[Steve H]

Jim, I like it that low!!! OK maybe one scale inch higher but that's it. Maybe a blown hemi? Whatever you do, love it so far...

Steve

[Dennis Lacy]

Great start and I really dig the wheels and tires. Looking forward to following along. 
 

It’s funny that you found my old Tall T thread (that turned into a roadster.) I was gonna dig up pictures for you and send them DM on Instagram. You beat me to it! LOL ? 

[Spottedlaurel]

I love seeing how your projects come together, this looks like another good one.

[gautreau]

On 8/3/2020 at 7:58 PM, CabDriver said:

Had this Jimmy Flintstone body for a couple of years - it’s been sitting on my bench and every now and then I pick it up, do a little cleanup, mock it up with some wheels, decide I don’t like those wheels and put it back on the bench again

I figured I’d do a little actual work on it this weekend and maybe I’ll get somewhere with this thing before the resin turns to dust.  I’ve been casually collecting parts for this build for a while  and read an old thread today by @Dennis Lacy where he was working on one of these and found myself inspired.  His build ended up with a different body, but I’m gonna stick with this one, unchopped, for this one.

Whatever parts I end up choosing I’ll need a frame, so that was first order of business - nothing too complex or fancy, just a big kick up in the back so the ride height isn’t any higher than it needs to be and a little kick in the front for the same reason:

Ive had this front axle in my spares box forever and earmarked for this build - no idea what it came from but I added the spring from a broken Revell 32 axle I had as a starting point:

The axle has locating holes on the back for the linkages but the fit was pretty sloppy so I added some receivers from some styrene tube and got them where they’ll pretty much snap into place and hold (and should fit real nice once there’s a coat of paint on there):

I had a spare set of the nice finned drums from the Revell 29 kit which I think will also be donating it’s wheels and tires so I opened them up so they fit right on the new axle.  With those bits in place I was able to make a spring perch for the frame:

And a mock-up to see how it’ll work:

And a quick mock-up with the wheels and body...it won’t be THIS low but it won’t be super high either...

I like it already!   Not a bunch of progress so far, but I figure if I start a thread it’s a real project and I’ll have to get it done ?. More soon! ?

Love this build so far What styrene did you use to make the front spring perch? 

[espo]

I look forward to seeing what all you do with this. One thing I notice about this body is the height of the roof. I'm sure that has to do with the name, but it seems like it is taller than a stock one would be. Or that maybe the whole point. 

[Lowlife ! !]

 

I gotta agree I think it looks super cool being that low,  with Maybe a flake paint job and white interior  ?

[Draggon]

Great start to this one!

 

[CabDriver]

On 8/9/2020 at 11:51 AM, gautreau said:

Love this build so far What styrene did you use to make the front spring perch? 

Just some 1/4 by 1/8 inch styrene tube - the top piece is the same tube with the one edge sliced off.  Thanks for the kind words!

On 8/9/2020 at 12:01 PM, espo said:

I'm sure that has to do with the name, but it seems like it is taller than a stock one would be. Or that maybe the whole point. 

I thought that too!  Looks TOO tall, to me...but I like it!  I suspect if I had working window glass in those doors it wouldn’t be able to roll all the way down ?

On 8/9/2020 at 1:01 PM, Lowlife ! ! said:

 

I gotta agree I think it looks super cool being that low,  with Maybe a flake paint job and white interior  ?

That would be cool!  I had an old-school pastel blue color in mind too - we’ll see how restrained I feel when it comes to shooting some color ?

8 hours ago, Draggon said:

Great start to this one!

 

Thanks buddy!

I’m a little stuck on what to do for a rear end on this one - been messing around with parts for a few days now.  I really like the idea of a leaf spring on the back, and actually resin cast a nice narrow one with a fairly extreme curve that I liked from the Boot Hill Express kit (top left of those parts below)...

...but I’m struggling a little to fit that and a realistic rear suspension setup under the narrow rear end of this thing and keep everything tucked under and inside the body how I have in mind.  More thinking and plotting ahead! ?

[espo]

I'm sure you realize that there is no way to get the tires under any stock fenders if they are even a consideration. My thought for the rear setup would be the quick change center with axle tubes just long enough for the leaf springs to mount before the backing plates for the rear brakes. You may want to figure out some sort of shock absorber and mountings. 

[CabDriver]

5 hours ago, espo said:

I'm sure you realize that there is no way to get the tires under any stock fenders if they are even a consideration. My thought for the rear setup would be the quick change center with axle tubes just long enough for the leaf springs to mount before the backing plates for the rear brakes. You may want to figure out some sort of shock absorber and mountings. 

Exactly right buddy, yes!  I won’t be running fenders on this so that’s one less issue to overcome.  

It’s mainly a packaging issue of getting everything inside that little trunk (not that there will be a trunk by the time I’ve filled it with an axle and suspension) in such a way that it would be able to work in real life.  I really want to not cut away any of the bodywork back there so that the trunk sides look nice and clean so whatever suspension I go with has got to be pretty narrow.  I also want it to have as low of a ride height as possible at the back, and a leaf spring loses some of that ride height because, by design, it would have to sit over the top of the axle somehow - so I think that option’s out if I want this thing to have the stance that I want.

I did make a rough mock-up of a rear end that would work with the leaf spring, but the stance really sucked compared to what I had in mind:

This one will get filed away in the “might be useful another time” box whilst I try some other ideas.  I think the compromise is an air ride type system on the rear end only - so I can display it with the system ‘deflated’ and the axle sitting almost on the frame, but so that if this were a 1:1 it would be feasible that you could pump it up a little and actually drive the thing.  Mount some bags behind the axle like this and get the best of both worlds...

The front end wouldn’t need any such system in this case because I zee’d the frame so heavily in the first place, so it could still have a traditional hot rod kind of look on the outside but with that “looks like it’s almost too low to work” look that you might see on a rat rod or something like that.

That’s my engineering challenge here - crazy low stance even with decent height rear tires but done in such a way that it could still function AND it looks traditional and cleanly done from about every angle except laying on your back looking up underneath the trunk.

God knows where the fuel tank is gonna go - in the glove box maybe ?‍♂️?.

More improbable packaging fun tomorrow! ?

[espo]

17 hours ago, CabDriver said:

Exactly right buddy, yes!  I won’t be running fenders on this so that’s one less issue to overcome.  

It’s mainly a packaging issue of getting everything inside that little trunk (not that there will be a trunk by the time I’ve filled it with an axle and suspension) in such a way that it would be able to work in real life.  I really want to not cut away any of the bodywork back there so that the trunk sides look nice and clean so whatever suspension I go with has got to be pretty narrow.  I also want it to have as low of a ride height as possible at the back, and a leaf spring loses some of that ride height because, by design, it would have to sit over the top of the axle somehow - so I think that option’s out if I want this thing to have the stance that I want.

I did make a rough mock-up of a rear end that would work with the leaf spring, but the stance really sucked compared to what I had in mind:

This one will get filed away in the “might be useful another time” box whilst I try some other ideas.  I think the compromise is an air ride type system on the rear end only - so I can display it with the system ‘deflated’ and the axle sitting almost on the frame, but so that if this were a 1:1 it would be feasible that you could pump it up a little and actually drive the thing.  Mount some bags behind the axle like this and get the best of both worlds...

The front end wouldn’t need any such system in this case because I zee’d the frame so heavily in the first place, so it could still have a traditional hot rod kind of look on the outside but with that “looks like it’s almost too low to work” look that you might see on a rat rod or something like that.

That’s my engineering challenge here - crazy low stance even with decent height rear tires but done in such a way that it could still function AND it looks traditional and cleanly done from about every angle except laying on your back looking up underneath the trunk.

God knows where the fuel tank is gonna go - in the glove box maybe ?‍♂️?.

More improbable packaging fun tomorrow! ?

Air ride could be an option for the rear suspension as would a coil over set up that maybe a little more common I would think. As for the room for all this to fit up under the Turtle .Deck rear body what I have seen often done is the rear portion of the body/ trunk/ turtle deck is raised slightly on the rear of the body tub. This would allow you to raise the rear cross member to which the leaf springs would be attached and also give you a place for the battery and gas tank. One of the reasons you see many of these T buckets with a short pickup bed is that it offers just a little bit more room in a very limited area of the body.    

[CabDriver]

2 hours ago, espo said:

Air ride could be an option for the rear suspension as would a coil over set up that maybe a little more common I would think. As for the room for all this to fit up under the Turtle .Deck rear body what I have seen often done is the rear portion of the body/ trunk/ turtle deck is raised slightly on the rear of the body tub. This would allow you to raise the rear cross member to which the leaf springs would be attached and also give you a place for the battery and gas tank. One of the reasons you see many of these T buckets with a short pickup bed is that it offers just a little bit more room in a very limited area of the body

Makes perfect sense, yes!  These T’s are really small!  I checked the dimensions of this body versus a real one and it’s not really undersized like I suspected it would be - Model Ts are just cosy! ?

Spent some time today making the rear suspension - went with my take on an airbag system, much as I wanted to use a leaf on there...

Left myself a scale inch of wiggle room for when I assemble it - the axle mounts to the frame on some pins, which I can chop down a little to shorten them to get the stance just right after everything’s painted:

Test of the body on the frame - I wanted it to line up so the bottom corner of the front of the body will line up with where the Z in the front of the frame is - should work out ok:

Next up, I resin cast a Deuce grill and sliced about 6 scale inches out of the middle of it so it’ll line up with the top of the cowl:

And then with that done I dug out the biggest pair of headlamps I could find in my parts stash and mounted them as close together and tight to the grill as I could get them...came out just how I imagined them in my head!

Got plenty of space in there for whatever engine I pick (depending mostly on what I can find in my stash here) and there’s a nice centerline to the car that extends from that grill shell through to the rear decklid - and then that massive high roof! ?

And a quick mock-up on the bench to see how it’ll look with the wheels on there - I like it!

More soon!

[Deuces ll]

Cool!.... ??

[oldnslow]

I love the tall T rods . Looks like you're coming right along on this .

What are you going to do engine wise ?

Unless you're using the torque tube to anchor the rear , and it would be marginal by itself , I would suggest a 4 link set up to stabilize the rear axle or at least a 3 link , to stop the rear from rolling on the air bags . 

You're also going to need some shocks .

[espo]

The Air Bags seem to take up the least amount of space. With it up on the wheels and tires you start to get a better feel for how it's going to look. 

[Steve H]

Well... as a guy who likes cars low... I love this build !!!! It's bad a$$.

Personally, I would stuff a monster DOHC  hemi in it. Regardless of the motor choice, it will be cool.

Steve

[CabDriver]

On 8/12/2020 at 8:08 PM, oldnslow said:

I love the tall T rods . Looks like you're coming right along on this .

What are you going to do engine wise ?

Unless you're using the torque tube to anchor the rear , and it would be marginal by itself , I would suggest a 4 link set up to stabilize the rear axle or at least a 3 link , to stop the rear from rolling on the air bags . 

You're also going to need some shocks .

10-4 on that!  I was thinking of a three link on the rear rather than a 4 link, just to keep it nice and clean looking, but still mechanically feasible.  I could hide a third linkage above the axle and it wouldn’t be too easy to see but if you knew to look for it it would be in there.  Still not totally decided on that, but now the bottom linkages and bags are on there I can add some of those bits.

Do I need shocks on the rear still with the airbags on there?  I’ve seen it done both ways - need to learn more about these, I guess!

10 hours ago, espo said:

The Air Bags seem to take up the least amount of space. With it up on the wheels and tires you start to get a better feel for how it's going to look. 

Not traditional in the slightest I guess - but it gave the the stance I wanted! ?  I think it looks cool, on it’s wheels!

35 minutes ago, Steve H said:

Well... as a guy who likes cars low... I love this build !!!! It's bad a$$.

Personally, I would stuff a monster DOHC  hemi in it. Regardless of the motor choice, it will be cool.

Steve

Thanks buddy!  I like the idea of a Hemi too!  I need to look in my stash here...  I know I’ve got an AMT Hemi here from the 53 Studebaker kit, I think it might be more race oriented than street though from memory?  I know it’s a twin blower setup, which is more than I was looking for for this one, but I might have something a little less crazy that could work.  Need to visit the junkyard and do some diggin’ around!

Not much progress today, but as I’m replying anyway I found a spot for the gas tank.  I spent the morning making a couple of tanks that could run under the floor, one either side of the driveshaft...but when I’d made them I hated them.  Went with a simple round one - measured it and worked out the volume, it would hold about 11 gallons in real life, if I did my math right.  Should be good for 50 miles or so at least ?

A rectangular one would hold more gas, obviously, but this one would fit and give clearance for the axle even in it’s lowest sitting position and I don’t have to cop out and say “the gas tank’s under the seat so you can’t see it!” or whatever.  

That said, the battery is almost certainly going to be under the seat, along with the compressor for the air-ride ??

More soon!

[Steve H]

Well played Jim, love the sense of humour. 

[CabDriver]

A little tiny bit more today - made that third linkage we were talking about:

Tried to make it visually similar to the hairpins on the front end...this would work ok, right?  I figure the two trailing arms on the bottom of the axle stop the axle rocking back and forth relative to the frame (but allowing it to swing up and down) and then this one stops it being able to move side to side if I mount it like this (at least, when coupled with the airbags):

All the geometry throws me a little on this stuff, but I think my theory’s right?

Meanwhile, at the other end of the car, dug out a collection of Hemi parts from my stash:

I had a block and trans left over from an AMT 53 Stude kit, and a blower left from a Mod Rod kit...I wasn’t necessarily going for anything as wild as that, but now it’s in there I kinda like it!  I need to do some research and figure out what trans AMT has moulded into that Hemi to see if it’s something that COULD be used on the street in principle, but it’s a fun look!

Quick bench mock-up to see how it would look on it’s wheels:

I’d drive* it!

More soon!

 

 

*probably crash 

[Steve H]

That's what I'm talkin bout!!!! Yaaaa. A motor that will "scuff" the rear tires... sweet!

one of the coolest things about this build, no matter what colour you paint it, it will,look awesome. 

Cheers, Steve

[misterNNL]

Neat solution to the rear suspension. I love the fabrication and parts choices you're making on this build. I'll be watching with great interest from behind my own pile of projects.

[TarheelRick]

This is going to be one really cool rod.  Like the overall look, but IMHO that engine sort of overwhelms the build.  However, it is your build and it must satisfy you.  Looking forward to more updates.  Also like the work on the rear axle assembly.