CA and other things I'm clueless about

[SCRWDRVR]

I find myself in a area of uncharted water for myself, I've started building the Revell 70 Torino GT and this release has photo etch parts that come with it which is something I have never used before. So in my genius (not really) I decided to detail this kit farther then I ever had but realized there are a lot of areas doing this I have little or no experience with one being the use of CA, I've never used it on a kit. I've never added battery cables which I am on this kit, I've never used bare metal foil which I plan to do the window trim with, I've never done heater hoses which I plan to do and I plan on adding fuel lines which I have never done. So down to the basis of the post I want to here about you guys experience with things thing, tips you like doing or not doing and if you have ever built this kit any info on it you think may help. I know this is kind of general and I know these topics are all over the forum but I've seen you guys work and I know there's those things that make them so unique and incredible. Here is the kit I'm doing and how it currently sits

[StevenGuthmiller]

CA glue is extremely useful for a great number of the small details that you have mentioned.

Just be very cognoscente that CA can fog clear parts, chrome and even paint if you are too heavy handed with it.

Just remember that a little dab on the end of a tooth pick can go a long way, and be wary of gluing in glass or fastening parts to the body with it.

 

By the way, I use "Plasti-Zap medium CA" for these sort of applications, if that's worth anything to you.

Remember that there are a whole host of other adhesives available to us.

Just think about what task you are trying to accomplish before deciding which adhesive will perform best for you.

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Muncie]

I  was drafting this when Steve was posting   I defer to his experience and knowledge.  The models that he has posted show his techniques work.  In fact, I was going to suggest looking at some of his how-to posts for using Bare Metal foil.

Here are my thoughts --- I'm with you - CA doesn't give me a comfortable feeling for adding detail bits.  I have difficulty controlling CA and accidents will always cause damage in the most visible places.  How a drop of CA can find it's way to the top of a painted hood across the work bench is a mystery. 

So, this is a job where I like to use a clear windshield adhesive - Micro Kristal Clear from Microscale is a good one.  It's easy to apply where it is needed with the tip of a toothpick.  It won't damage paint and can be cleaned up easily from places where it is not wanted.  Kristal Clear is a little bit tacky so the part can be moved to position it. It will work on anything I see in the picture.  Most hobby shops carry it.

Drill holes in the engine with a small drill bit (#72) in a pin vise for the plug end of the wire.  The hole will hold the wires in place.  Install the plug wires with a little extra curve to simulate the way gravity bends a real plug wire.

Edited September 3, 2020 by Muncie

[StevenGuthmiller]

4 minutes ago, Muncie said:

Drill holes in the engine with a small drill bit (#72) in a pin vise for the plug end of the wire.  The hole will hold the wires in place.  Install the plug wires with a little extra curve to simulate the way gravity bends a real plug wire.

The "M.A.D." distributor that Brian has pictured comes with a length of slightly larger wire to be used as boot material.

You need to strip the jacket from the wire and use the jacket for the boots.

 

Drill the holes in the heads large enough and deep enough to accept about 1/8th inch piece of the boot material and glue them into the holes first.

It's a good idea to use some sort of pointed instrument to slightly stretch the boot material on the end that will except the wire.

This makes adding the wires much easier later.

Once the boots are in place to your satisfaction and the glue has dried you can slip in the wires.

Of course this is all dependent on the fact that the distributor is already installed.

That needs to be done first.

 

By the way, don't throw away any of the left over wire that you cut from the leads or the wire that you stripped for the boot material.

These will both come in very handy for other wires, hoses and fuel lines throughout the engine compartment.

 

On the '64 Grand Prix that I'm working on currently, left over wire from M.A.D. distributors was used for all of the fuel lines, battery cables, power steering hoses, brake line and the brake booster vacuum line.

It's extremely useful stuff!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[SCRWDRVR]

28 minutes ago, Muncie said:

I'm with you - CA doesn't give me a comfortable feeling for adding detail bits.  It can be difficult to control and accidents will always cause damage in the most visible places.

So, this is a job for something like a clear windshield adhesive - Micro Kristal Clear from Microscale is a good one.  It's easy to apply where it is needed with the tip of a toothpick.  It won't damage paint and can be cleaned up easily from places where it is not wanted.  Kristal Clear is a little bit tacky so the part can be moved to position it. It will work on anything I see in the picture.  Most hobby shops carry it.

Drill holes in the engine with a small drill bit (#72) in a pin vise for the plug end of the wire.  The hole will hold the wires in place.  Install the plug wires with a little extra curve to simulate the way gravity bends a real plug wire.

I am very uncomfortable about using CA on the body could trash the whole job for sure, I do have some white glue and maybe the thing used for those parts, I did buy a set of small drill bit recently to get the #72 for my plug wires, thanks for the tips...

8 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

The "M.A.D." distributor that Brian has pictured comes with a length of slightly larger wire to be used as boot material.

You need to strip the jacket from the wire and use the jacket for the boots.

 

Drill the holes in the heads large enough and deep enough to accept about 1/8th inch piece of the boot material and glue them into the holes first.

It's a good idea to use some sort of pointed instrument to slightly stretch the boot material on the end that will except the wire.

This makes adding the wires much easier later.

Once the boots are in place to your satisfaction and the glue has dried you can slip in the wires.

Of course this is all dependent on the fact that the distributor is already installed.

That needs to be done first.

 

By the way, don't throw away any of the left over wire that you cut from the leads or the wire that you stripped for the boot material.

These will both come in very handy for other wires, hoses and fuel lines throughout the engine compartment.

 

On the '64 Grand Prix that I'm working on currently, left over wire from M.A.D. distributors was used for all of the fuel lines, battery cables, power steering hoses, brake line and the brake booster vacuum line.

It's extremely useful stuff!

 

I will get some of the Plasti-zap I looked it up and saw a small video on it I think that is probably a good CA for me to use, I never used to use toothpicks but have started using them in the last 6 month and it makes a huge difference for sure. I have never come across anyone saying to do the boots that way and that sounds like it would make it much easier to install them thanks for that info I think that will be a huge help.I have been trying to rummage though things to find small wire to use and it's been a challenge finding it so believe me I will be saving all my scraps for sure but another great tip, thanks

[stitchdup]

When you're doing the foil use a new blade, and instead of q-tips have a look in the make up section of stores. You'll find a much better selection of q-tip style applicators and they are much cheaper than the tamiya ones with much more in the pack. The ones with the point are best for getting into the corners and are much less likelly o puncture the foil. I also put low tack tape down close to the outside edges of the trim so the foil doesn't stick to the paint.. It also helps to use a round handled holder for the blade,  I find it easier to use the round handle as you can roll it around corners easier than a flat handle but that personal choice really. If its a knife you are comfortable using that also helps. It looks like you have some good sharp edges on the window trim already so that will help you when doing the foil. Dont press hard on the knife, let the weight of the handle do the cut as you gently pull slide the blade along the edge it cuts really easily. Also, avoid drinking too much coffee before doing the foil, you dont want your hands shaking, and plenty of light is good too

[Muncie]

Steve,  Great tip on the boots - I have a couple of MAD distributors that I haven't used - was wondering what that extra material was for.  Larger hole means I won't break as many drill bits.

[SCRWDRVR]

8 minutes ago, stitchdup said:

When you're doing the foil use a new blade, and instead of q-tips have a look in the make up section of stores. You'll find a much better selection of q-tip style applicators and they are much cheaper than the tamiya ones with much more in the pack. The ones with the point are best for getting into the corners and are much less likelly o puncture the foil. I also put low tack tape down close to the outside edges of the trim so the foil doesn't stick to the paint.. It also helps to use a round handled holder for the blade,  I find it easier to use the round handle as you can roll it around corners easier than a flat handle but that personal choice really. If its a knife you are comfortable using that also helps. It looks like you have some good sharp edges on the window trim already so that will help you when doing the foil. Dont press hard on the knife, let the weight of the handle do the cut as you gently pull slide the blade along the edge it cuts really easily. Also, avoid drinking too much coffee before doing the foil, you dont want your hands shaking, and plenty of light is good too

I will put the those q-tips on my shopping list as well as a thin roll of low tack tape I needed some anyway but I'll get some 1/4 inch for that, The knife I use all the time is round so that should help me out some but I will keep in mind to be light on my cutting.... Thanks...

[peteski]

If I could not use CA and accelerator in my hobbies, I would quit!  This stuff is extremely useful.. I always have a complement of CA (in viscosity from extra thin to gel type) and BSI brand accelerator.  No worries about the possible mess when I use my home-made applicators from sewing needles and micro-brushes to apply the accelerator.

 

[Brutalform]

2 hours ago, SCRWDRVR said:

I am very uncomfortable about using CA on the body could trash the whole job for sure, I do have some white glue and maybe the thing used for those parts, I did buy a set of small drill bit recently to get the #72 for my plug wires, thanks for the tips...

I will get some of the Plasti-zap I looked it up and saw a small video on it I think that is probably a good CA for me to use, I never used to use toothpicks but have started using them in the last 6 month and it makes a huge difference for sure. I have never come across anyone saying to do the boots that way and that sounds like it would make it much easier to install them thanks for that info I think that will be a huge help.I have been trying to rummage though things to find small wire to use and it's been a challenge finding it so believe me I will be saving all my scraps for sure but another great tip, thanks

I’ve never used CA glue for any PE parts, as of yet. I’ve found that the Tamiya acrylic clear, in the little jars, works perfectly for me whenever I’m working with PE parts. 

[SCRWDRVR]

29 minutes ago, peteski said:

If I could not use CA and accelerator in my hobbies, I would quit!  This stuff is extremely useful.. I always have a complement of CA (in viscosity from extra thin to gel type) and BSI brand accelerator.  No worries about the possible mess when I use my home-made applicators from sewing needles and micro-brushes to apply the accelerator.

 

Interest, I guess you just dip those in the glue to apply it?

 

1 hour ago, Brutalform said:

I’ve never used CA glue for any PE parts, as of yet. I’ve found that the Tamiya acrylic clear, in the little jars, works perfectly for me whenever I’m working with PE parts. 

Will that damage the painted parts?....

[StevenGuthmiller]

4 hours ago, SCRWDRVR said:

I am very uncomfortable about using CA on the body could trash the whole job for sure, I do have some white glue and maybe the thing used for those parts, I did buy a set of small drill bit recently to get the #72 for my plug wires, thanks for the tips...

Consider 2 part epoxy for anything that you are gluing to the body and for glass.

If you mix it up, apply it to the parts to be installed and then let it set for 5 minutes it will become very tacky and easier to work with than a white glue.

The bond will be infinitely stronger than white glue as well.

 

I use JB Weld "Clear Weld".

You can pick it up very easily at nearly any auto parts store or online.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[SCRWDRVR]

19 minutes ago, StevenGuthmiller said:

Consider 2 part epoxy for anything that you are gluing to the body and for glass.

If you mix it up, apply it to the parts to be installed and then let it set for 5 minutes it will become very tacky and easier to work with than a white glue.

The bond will be infinitely stronger than white glue as well.

 

I use JB Weld "Clear Weld".

You can pick it up very easily at nearly any auto parts store or online.

 

 

I'll have to add that to my shopping list, I've decided I'm going to set myself up a little test with different glues that way I can try it out without messing up my car...

Edited September 4, 2020 by SCRWDRVR

[peteski]

5 hours ago, SCRWDRVR said:

Interest, I guess you just dip those in the glue to apply it?

Yes, I place a puddle of CA on some disposable surface (like aluminum foil or masking tape, then I dip those applicators in it, then touch them to the surface of the model where glue is to be applied. That way I have full control of where the glue goes. Unlike using the glue bottle with conical tip.  If more glue is needed, I repeat the process.  Thin CA glue will also wick into the glue joint.  Then, if needed, while I'm still holding the glued parts, I put down the needle applicator, pick up the micro brish, dip it in the accelerator,  and apply it to the glue joint, instantly setting the glue.

CA is one of multiple types of adhesives I use. I have entire arsenal of glues: contact cement, liquid cement for styrene, tube glue, various epoxies, and even UV curable glue.  That way I can choose the best adhesive for a particular glue joint.

[1972coronet]

Mod Podge is another excellent adhesive for clear pieces and 'glass' . Buy the stuff which reads (to paraphrase) "Dries Clear and Glossy" . It is especially great for head lamp lenses , tail lamp lenses , and the such ; wonderful for windscreen and backlight pieces which are separate items ( e.g. , no "runner" connecting them ) .

CA glue... my favourite is the el cheapo stuff from the Dollar Store . It's in a red-coloured dispenser with a black lid .

[randyc]

I've read that Pledge (Future) is good for photoetch too.  REcent use of Pledge does seem to bear ou thtat it tacks up quickly and is easily removed with windex if screwed up.  Good luck with your Torino.  The PE parts can be daunting at first.   

As for CA glues, I have been using Duro brand - available in little metal tubes at DG, WalMArt, for a buck or less per tube.   Only if I make a huge blob have I had issues with fogging with this brand.   I apply with a dental pick or place a drop on a little piece of plastic, then touch part to it (holding with tweezers).  That will apply a tiny bit of CA to the part on the mating surface.  There is not a lot of adjustment with the CA though.  Get it right the first time.  

The Duro brand in the little metal tubes works for me.  I was using bottled, but it was going bad before I can use it.   No I will actually use the tube up and move to the next one.  Less wasted.  

[SCRWDRVR]

15 hours ago, peteski said:

Yes, I place a puddle of CA on some disposable surface (like aluminum foil or masking tape, then I dip those applicators in it, then touch them to the surface of the model where glue is to be applied. That way I have full control of where the glue goes. Unlike using the glue bottle with conical tip.  If more glue is needed, I repeat the process.  Thin CA glue will also wick into the glue joint.  Then, if needed, while I'm still holding the glued parts, I put down the needle applicator, pick up the micro brish, dip it in the accelerator,  and apply it to the glue joint, instantly setting the glue.

CA is one of multiple types of adhesives I use. I have entire arsenal of glues: contact cement, liquid cement for styrene, tube glue, various epoxies, and even UV curable glue.  That way I can choose the best adhesive for a particular glue joint.

I have plenty of needles around here I will have to give that a try, thanks 

 

9 hours ago, 1972coronet said:

Mod Podge is another excellent adhesive for clear pieces and 'glass' . Buy the stuff which reads (to paraphrase) "Dries Clear and Glossy" . It is especially great for head lamp lenses , tail lamp lenses , and the such ; wonderful for windscreen and backlight pieces which are separate items ( e.g. , no "runner" connecting them ) .

CA glue... my favourite is the el cheapo stuff from the Dollar Store . It's in a red-coloured dispenser with a black lid .

I have some mod podge I’ll have to look to see what one I have and add that to my testing, thanks

8 hours ago, randyc said:

I've read that Pledge (Future) is good for photoetch too.  REcent use of Pledge does seem to bear ou thtat it tacks up quickly and is easily removed with windex if screwed up.  Good luck with your Torino.  The PE parts can be daunting at first.   

As for CA glues, I have been using Duro brand - available in little metal tubes at DG, WalMArt, for a buck or less per tube.   Only if I make a huge blob have I had issues with fogging with this brand.   I apply with a dental pick or place a drop on a little piece of plastic, then touch part to it (holding with tweezers).  That will apply a tiny bit of CA to the part on the mating surface.  There is not a lot of adjustment with the CA though.  Get it right the first time.  

The Duro brand in the little metal tubes works for me.  I was using bottled, but it was going bad before I can use it.   No I will actually use the tube up and move to the next one.  Less wasted.  

I have some pledge so I’ll definitely have to test it as well

That lack of being able to move it is what worries me about CA I rarely get it perfect first shot

[STYRENE-SURFER]

23 hours ago, peteski said:

If I could not use CA and accelerator in my hobbies, I would quit!  This stuff is extremely useful.. I always have a complement of CA (in viscosity from extra thin to gel type) and BSI brand accelerator.  No worries about the possible mess when I use my home-made applicators from sewing needles and micro-brushes to apply the accelerator.

 

Those are an interesting arsenal of applicators. I've tried similar using  pieces of wire folded over (couldn't get to work)

Will try the ground off sewing needle idea. ? I have found that the more jell like CA's are a bit easier to work with.

Gorilla has an easy to use thicker glue that can be found in most any drugstore. Oh and like Peter said don't apply from

the tube/bottle directly, make a small puddle on something disposable and use an applicator. 

This is kinda yucky.?

Edited September 4, 2020 by STYRENE-SURFER

[SCRWDRVR]

7 minutes ago, STYRENE-SURFER said:

Those are an interesting arsenal of applicators. I've tried similar using  pieces of wire folded over (couldn't get to work)

Will try the ground off sewing needle idea. ? I have found that the more jell like CA's are a bit easier to work with.

Gorilla has an easy to use thicker glue that can be found in most any drugstore. Oh and like Peter said don't apply from

the tube/bottle directly, make a small puddle on something disposable and use an applicator. 

I picked up a bottle of the gorilla gel today when I was out, got a few more things to get then I can test them out to see what I like using... Great info all thanks a bunch...

[Bills72sj]

There have been lots of suggestions here that I agree with. Do yourself a favor and keep a 6-7" piece of 2" wide blue (or any color) masking tape laid directly on the right side of your work bench. Always apply a small blob of whatever glue you are using to that. Then use a toothpick or applicator tool to pick up a dab of glue from the blob and apply it to your pieces. You can also rest the toothpick there when you are holding the pieces together. It keeps random glue specks off of your work and bench. When you run out of clean area, just peel it up and throw it away. It is also handy for making sure Molotow pens and Sharpies are ready to write too.

The glues I use:

Testors Red: Good, strong bond on unpainted and unchromed styrene. NOT good for windows. Needs time to set/cure. (I wait 24hrs)

Plastruct Bondene: Good bond on styrene. Especially on large contact areas with tight gaps. RISKY for clear parts. Needs time to set/cure.

CA (5-15 second) gel: Good but brittle bond for a multitude of materials. Can FOG clear and glossy surfaces. Cure is FAST. Good for sub-assemblies before paint. Does NOT like movement during curing or bond is compromised.

Testors Window Maker: (or equivalent). Dries clear, very good wicking for window perimeters and headlights. Not the strongest bond. Needs time to set/cure. (24hrs)

I use it to fill gaps between chrome bumpers and painted bodies on Muscle Cars after the bumpers are attached with Testors Red.

Gorilla Glue clear: Strong bond, dries clear, fills gaps on various materials. Easier than two part epoxy if you only need a little bit. Grips fast but gives you time before curing.

Testors Glue Pen: Good for controlled application to long surfaces like scratch building items with styrene.

[peteski]

5 hours ago, STYRENE-SURFER said:

Those are an interesting arsenal of applicators. I've tried similar using  pieces of wire folded over (couldn't get to work)

Will try the ground off sewing needle idea. ? I have found that the more jell like CA's are a bit easier to work with.

Gorilla has an easy to use thicker glue that can be found in most any drugstore. Oh and like Peter said don't apply from

the tube/bottle directly, make a small puddle on something disposable and use an applicator.

?

IIRC, I got the idea for the eye-of-the-needle applicators years ago from a reader's hint in FineScale Magazine.  I have used them ever since.  I believe that Micro-Mark now sells similar glue applicators, but why buy one when I can make my own (and in different sizes).
I have no problems with the applicators not holding even the water-thin CA.

Eventually the end of the applicator gets clogged up with glue.  I then just scrape and pick the glue out using a hobby knife with an old #11 blade.  I've read that some people (who use similar applicators) burn the glue off, or stick the end in acetone for a while, but I actually enjoy picking the semi hardened glue out of the applicator.  I find it satisfying for some reason.

While I do put a puddle of glue on some flat disposable surface for picking it with the applicator, for the water-thin stuff I make a special holder.

I take one of my small amber glass cups (upside down) and wrap a piece pf aluminum foil over it.  Then with my index finger massage a dimple in the center.  It is a perfect little holder for thin CA glue. Once it cakes up, I just replace the aluminum foil and make a fresh one.

I got those little cups years ago from American Science & Surplus.  Back in the day they were used by dentists to mix filling material or other chemicals.  They come in very handy, but I don't think they are being made anymore.

 

Here is  my glue and other hobby chemicals repository.  I made the stepped shelf out of clear acrylic.

Edited September 5, 2020 by peteski

[Mike999]

The CA glues sold at Hobby Lobby come in Thin, Medium and Thick viscosities. Be VERY careful if you use the Thin, it will run everywhere and dries very fast. Especially on any joint between plastic and your finger.  The Medium and Thick types work for just about everything I do.

Hobby Lobby also sells little plastic bottles with tiny metal needle applicator tips.  Those are useful for applying CA Accelerant and other stuff. The Accelerant is very useful.  Zap the CA glue with it and it dries instantly. 

You can buy that J-B Weld Clear 2-part Epoxy at Wal-Mart.  I personally hate those plunger applicators shown in the pic.  The resin and hardener never seem to come out in equal parts.  I like the clear 2-part epoxies that come in 2 separate tubes.  Much better control, and you can play tricks with it.  Like mixing in a little more hardener so that it dries quicker.  One well-known brand is Devcon.  You can get it at the link below.  The "Dual Pak" is the one you want, the "Dev Tube" is a plunger applicator.

https://www.gesswein.com/p-5110-devcon-5-minute-epoxy.aspx?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIkbjY54T66QIVkIbACh0L-QduEAQYAiABEgKQlvD_BwE
 

[StevenGuthmiller]

1 hour ago, Mike999 said:

You can buy that J-B Weld Clear 2-part Epoxy at Wal-Mart.  I personally hate those plunger applicators shown in the pic.

I agree.

I don't particularly love the plunger applicators either.

But strangely enough, I've really gotten used to working with them.

I can mix very small amounts with them.

 

You can get the Clear Weld in individual bottles as well if you like, but you may have to order it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Steve

[Oldcarfan27]

I've used clear paint as an adhesive for ph emblems and parts, headlights and windows. 

Use an enamel based paint sparingly.  Once dried, it's stronger than white glue and can take some handling.

[youpey]

 i use white glue for photo etch. once it dries it holds good as long as you dont do to much moving