Why hasn't anyone kitted any Tri-Five BOP cars ?

[64Comet404]

15 hours ago, niteowl7710 said:

The simple reason is - all of the BOP Tri-Fives are different enough from each other and the existing Chevy tools that you'd have to almost create new kits for each of them other than carrying over things like frames and running gear.  They're single use tooling when you consider not only the body differences, but the interiors, and engine modification between each.  If you can get 5k of your closest friends to all put up $60 a kit, I'm sure someone would make one for you, otherwise there's no way the return on investment works out.

The only way it could be done with just a body, trim, and interior change is if a manufacturer converted a Chevrolet into the same year Canadian Pontiac. Right wheelbase, right engine, but would you have the interest from the US market for such a beast?

[GMP440]

6 minutes ago, Greg Myers said:

Third time, with original threads being seven and four years old, and yet there is still interest in the subject. says more about the POOR Search capabilities of the board.?

That's why it's just better to start a new topic because it's just too time consuming to search for old threads because of the poor search feature on this site.  Also, you get fresh and up to date input from members .

  Back to the topic,  as far as the BOP cars, there is not many requests for those when these "what would you like to see released" polls come up from time to time.  This is probably related;  there was a little write up about a month ago as to the direction the model car kit companies are going in ; and that is, doing releases of  mid 60's through the 70's car and truck kits.  I was surprised to read this, but that is the direction. Proof is we see the just released 70.5 Camaro z28, Grumpy's Vega, 65 Plymouth Satellite stock and AWB cars . Coming soon is the AMT 64 Cutlass convt, Ford Indy drag set, 63 Chevy II wagon and the 72 Chevy truck with racing wedge kits and so on.  Looks like an exciting time to be in the model car hobby.

[Greg Myers]

And you can bet we're waiting for this little jewel 

[Bill J]

I know what Greg is saying. Cars were much more interesting and unique back in those days. They did not all look the same and they did not share power trains either. Today when you see a classic they are real head turners. However, there are fewer of us that remember the cars from when they were new. Unfortunately not everyone achieves some of our ages. Young people today are unlikely to identify with most cars of that early era. 

From a model kit perspective, I would imagine the costs involved with tooling up a new kit and producing it in this volatile market would perhaps scare off the bean counters at most of the model making companies. I would imagine that Moebius, although having done well with their Hudson kits, under new ownership seem to be less interested in old orphaned car brands. 

I have always wanted a model of a late '40's to early '50's Packard, which is much like the Hudsons of that time. I know it will never happen. Perhaps one of the reasons that the Hudson kit sold well was the movie connection from "Cars" and/or the NASCAR connection from the days when they raced real cars. I have to say, that every time I see "Back to The Future"  I really enjoy seeing the old cars and particularly Doc Brown's yellow Packard convertible. 

Yes, the subject is still very interesting to many of us but perhaps not enough to motivate the model companies to help us relive the past, sadly.

[OldTrucker]

Maybe if they had tooled some of them up 25 years ago when there was still a lot of us old guys that remember these cars still building models they might have sold. (note, I said "might have" LOL)

It very well may have reinvigorated some to come back to the hobby back then!

Edited September 13, 2020 by OldTrucker

[Tom Geiger]

On 9/12/2020 at 2:10 PM, Greg Myers said:

and yet these have done quite well

We will never know just how well they sold since Moebius was a privately held company with no obligation to report their numbers.

Frank Winspur was the owner of Moebius and he is a Hudson fan... it’s good to be king! So that subject was self serving and maybe he even knew he’d never break even.  But note that they did some dozen varieties and released off that tool to make it work. I’d be curious!

Per the GM cars mentioned, as said there are versions of them all that were either available in the past and we can still find today, as well as many resin varieties. And good diecast from Franklin and Danbury as well so we aren’t starved for these! 

Still like many guys here, if any of these made it to kits, I’d buy some. And I’ve learned not to say never!  We’ve been surprised before!

[Richard Bartrop]

I'd take a mid fifties Buick over a Chevy II any time, but I guess it boils down to whether the numbers work.

On the other hand, for the longest time I never thought these tri fives were ever going to be made into kits, and between Moebius and AMT, they have.

 

I guess it boils down to whether you can make a case that the demand is there.

[bobthehobbyguy]

On 9/12/2020 at 4:55 PM, Muncie said:

pretty cars, but I agree with those that have said demand would not cover the expense of bringing these to production

They aren't as close the the 1955-57 Chevrolets as they look - so pretty much all new tools would be required for the kits and no way to combine tooling for one make to another.

Wheelbase, engine and chassis are also different

1955-57 Chevrolet wheelbase 115"

1955 Buick wheel base:  Special, Century - 122"     Super, Roadmaster - 127"

1955 Oldsmobile 88 -  122"  Oldsmobile 98 - 126" -- there may be more...

1955 Pontiac   122", there may be other wheelbases

I doubt that the 122" wheelbase chassis have many common parts between Buick Pontiac and Oldsmobile.  GM didn't work that way then.

In the end, I'd rather see something newer or something else that would have a longer life in production for the next generation of model builders.

 

This explains why the model companies couldn't leverage off the tri fifties chevies.

[bobthehobbyguy]

With the model companies have limited staff and production budgets doing some research will go a lot further than I want to see this as a kit.

Your research needs to show how many varients can be made. Is there a tie in with nascar or drag racing? The more information the better.

Edited September 14, 2020 by bobthehobbyguy

[chepp]

28 minutes ago, bobthehobbyguy said:

This explains why the model companies couldn't leverage off the tri fifties chevies.

Perhaps the closest would be to make a '55 Pontiac Safari from a '55 Chevrolet Nomad. New taillights would be easy but front fenders, engine and interior would not. Still....

[Mark]

Pontiacs (and other GM divisions) all used different chassis from Chevrolet.  The Safari interior is quite different too: except maybe the '57, even the way the rear seat folded was different.  Other than the roof and inner body shell, there really is very little in common between the Nomad and Safari wagons.

[Ace-Garageguy]

2 hours ago, chepp said:

Perhaps the closest would be to make a '55 Pontiac Safari from a '55 Chevrolet Nomad. New taillights would be easy but front fenders, engine and interior would not. Still....

 

45 minutes ago, Mark said:

Pontiacs (and other GM divisions) all used different chassis from Chevrolet...

Yes indeed, the frames are different, but Chevy and Pontiac are visually similar. Anyone wanting to do a tri-five Pontiac using a Chevy frame as a starting point, look here...

 

[Mark]

If, with any of the Chevy kits, a Pontiac version had been included as part of the initial plan, then of course we'd have seen one.  Adding one after the fact is probably as much work as just starting from scratch.

[Ace-Garageguy]

41 minutes ago, Mark said:

If, with any of the Chevy kits, a Pontiac version had been included as part of the initial plan, then of course we'd have seen one.  Adding one after the fact is probably as much work as just starting from scratch.

At this point in time, most likely you're correct.

IF the old Chevy kits existed as CAD files, with thorough documentation of draft angles, gate and pin locations, and why things were done as they were (which they probably don't), a competent CAD designer could modify them into another similar subject significantly easier than starting from nothing. The Chevy frame and body shell are similar enough to each other to make creating a Pontiac from a Chevy relatively straightforward.

Oddly, it's only fairly recently that I've seen CAD designers being actively encouraged to try to recycle earlier work to save effort and expense.

Seems to be a pretty self-evident idea, but common sense is a commodity in increasingly short-supply.

[Brian Austin]

I'd rather start with a Revell '50 Olds frame than a Chevy's.   It's a lot closer in shape and size.

 

It seems to me a Canadian Pontiac would be a tough sell as a kit subject.  There are resin bodies around.

[Tom Geiger]

20 hours ago, Ace-Garageguy said:

Oddly, it's only fairly recently that I've seen CAD designers being actively encouraged to try to recycle earlier work to save effort and expense.

Seems to be a pretty self-evident idea, but common sense is a commodity in increasingly short-supply.

Back in the early days of CAD I managed operations for a few companies, mainly in petrochemical field. We made simple work of creating P&ID drawings by grouping together all the similar systems so we’d only draw them once, then modify to create the subsequent drawings. We had extensive symbol libraries that we’d pull typicals like control valve stations etc so we never drew anything more than once.

[niteowl7710]

On 9/14/2020 at 3:46 PM, Ace-Garageguy said:

 

IF the old Chevy kits existed as CAD files, with thorough documentation of draft angles, gate and pin locations, and why things were done as they were (which they probably don't), a competent CAD designer could modify them into another similar subject significantly easier than starting from nothing. The Chevy frame and body shell are similar enough to each other to make creating a Pontiac from a Chevy relatively straightforward.

They are, or at least the '57 is because the Convertible and 150 were both added down the line after their Bel Air body was created which is the most contemporary of the Tri-Five kits.  Plus part of the delay with the convertible's release was they forgot to include the chassis X-brace when they thought the kit was ready to run. They had to have the file from the '55 laying around so it would fit the chassis without modifications, and they certainly didn't gate off the '55's entire runner system to pop several thousand braces.

Edited September 16, 2020 by niteowl7710